Very Concerned

[Dave Lucas]

No problem, just glad we are clear.

No!

Really was no need to explain the passage, I got it.


Dadgumm! Not so again. It was the Promised Land that was God gave to Israel that went from the Med. Sea to the Euphrates river, not Israel.

Israel as a nation never took more than 10% of the Promised Land given to them.

And because it has not, it is NOT the biblical Israel.

This is a pretender that the rapture/end times crowd has jumped on because they want to be the ones that are there for the Second Coming.

Thankfully The King is not ready yet. And their desires will become like those that thought the same since The King departed. How long have they been screaming end days? Too long. We have more important things to do here and now rather than to constantly be scanning the skies.

We were told to prepare, not to give into dull torpor about the end days.

The secular state of Israel is not the prophesied one. It does not encompass the land it was given as its right.
It has not because it still denies The King and his new order.

The Order of Melchizedek has been restored as it was when Abraham walked the world. Until the Jews accept the Levites are no longer the priest class just as the Aaronic order passed, then Israel will have not have the land promised, nor will they have peace.

The King was very specific. A New Way has come. And he is the high priest of that New Way. Complete and within the Law as it was supposed to be before they subverted it for their hard hearts.

This is NOT the biblical Israel. This is some heretical nation. No rights to anything. They are still lost.

They have to share the land with the Arabs and Persians because they refuse to repent and end their old ways.

 

[Abdicate]

Millions of Muslims also have bible studies. Their religion is still false and none of this justifies occupation of Gaza.



Dropping leaflets has been a common wartime strategy since the airplane was invented. It's good PR and it helps demoralize the enemy. And, I don't think killing over a thousand Palestinians in response to the murder of the three Israeli teens constitutes incredible restraint, especially given that Hamas hasn't been linked to the murders. You want me to give Israel credit for not committing genocide. Sorry, I won't do that.



God has not cast away his people. But, those not faithful to God are not his people, even those Israelis who are members of the tribe of Benjamin, which is none of them.

Well that's your opinion and that's fine, but you should study the history of that area from 1880 to 1948 and you'll see who's land it is. It's not the churches but the people of Israel. God literally wrote His Name in the hillside. Here's something I put together for you:

President Roosevelt told King Faisal Al Saud on 5 Apr 1945 that he would never do anything to harm the relationship with his Arab friends. Literally one week later, on 12 Apr 1945, Pres Roosevelt died and Pres Truman, a Christian, became president, and voted to have Israel become a nation, born in a day, writing by his own hand "State of Israel" on the official State Department document to the U.N. God is in no wise done with the nation of Israel.

 

[Dave Lucas]

Well that's your opinion and that's fine, but you should study the history of that area from 1880 to 1948 and you'll see who's land it is. It's not the churches but the people of Israel. God literally wrote His Name in the hillside. Here's something I put together for you:



President Roosevelt told King Faisal Al Saud on 5 Apr 1945 that he would never do anything to harm the relationship with his Arab friends. Literally one week later, on 12 Apr 1945, Pres Roosevelt died and Pres Truman, a Christian, became president, and voted to have Israel become a nation, born in a day, writing by his own hand "State of Israel" on the official State Department document to the U.N. God is in no wise done with the nation of Israel.

So we'll just overlook how the Moshe Dayan, a Jewish Atheist, and the people he sided with in the Haganah was following British orders to kill Arabs. That he did not even believe in God.

God chooses athiests to facilitate the Promised Land? Athiests whom do not follow the First Great Command let alone the Second?

Please, please, please stop propping up the Zionists. It is as bad as propping up the Islamists. NEITHER of them are with God, nor are righteous.

 

[Major]

And because it has not, it is NOT the biblical Israel.

This is a pretender that the rapture/end times crowd has jumped on because they want to be the ones that are there for the Second Coming.

Thankfully The King is not ready yet. And their desires will become like those that thought the same since The King departed. How long have they been screaming end days? Too long. We have more important things to do here and now rather than to constantly be scanning the skies.

We were told to prepare, not to give into dull torpor about the end days.

The secular state of Israel is not the prophesied one. It does not encompass the land it was given as its right.
It has not because it still denies The King and his new order.

The Order of Melchizedek has been restored as it was when Abraham walked the world. Until the Jews accept the Levites are no longer the priest class just as the Aaronic order passed, then Israel will have not have the land promised, nor will they have peace.

The King was very specific. A New Way has come. And he is the high priest of that New Way. Complete and within the Law as it was supposed to be before they subverted it for their hard hearts.

This is NOT the biblical Israel. This is some heretical nation. No rights to anything. They are still lost.

They have to share the land with the Arabs and Persians because they refuse to repent and end their old ways.

And you still have not posted any Bible verses to validate your claim that the Bible says that Israel must share the promised land.

I ask you again for the 4th time to please do this. Remember, YOU own your comment and it is now incumbant upon YOU
to prove Biblicall what you said.

Well, enough of this. You have not answered the challenge because there are NO BIBLE VERSES that say what you claimed.

The fact is.....You are wrong and will not admitt it. You just keep posting "opinions" and not Biblical facts.

The Bible fact is that Israel is Israel and the church is the church. The church has not inherited the promises God made to Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and God is not finished with Israel. IF you had read and done the homework found in Romans 11 you would know that to be a Biblical fact and not my opinion.

God promised the nation of Israel that they would be the head and not the tail of all nations. My dear friend, God never lies and all of the promises He made in the Old Test. to Israel will have a literal fulfillment and that is exactly what Paul confirms for us in Romans 11.

Deuteronomy 28:13 says of the nation of Isreal.........
"And the Lord shall make thee the HEAD and not the tail; and thou shalt be above only, and thou shalt not be beneatth.........."

 

[Major]

We have to give aid to Israel to offset what others give to the Muslim nations surrounding Israel?

Israel is the biggest recipient of US foreign aid. The Muslim nations surrounding Israel are the next biggest recipients of US foreign aid. Look at the evidence, rather than reaching kneejerk conclusions.

Do you realize that Israel has the agenda of taking the land from its neighbors?

And if they did move against Jordan, or Lebanon, how long do you think it would be before Egypt and Iran and all the other nations declare war on Israel????

What agenda is that???

 

[Major]

So we'll just overlook how the Moshe Dayan, a Jewish Atheist, and the people he sided with in the Haganah was following British orders to kill Arabs. That he did not even believe in God.

God chooses athiests to facilitate the Promised Land? Athiests whom do not follow the First Great Command let alone the Second?

Please, please, please stop propping up the Zionists. It is as bad as propping up the Islamists. NEITHER of them are with God, nor are righteous.

That is the same as saying there are no Christians in France! France may be an atheist country BUT there are millions of Christians that live there.

Talk about knee jerk thought!

You see, it is obviouse that you do not grasp the teaching that Paul did in Romans 11. When he said "all Israel shall be saved", he did not mean every individual Israelite will be saved. It is the NATION he has described to us in chapter 11. In every age a remnant for God is saved.

The message then is to the individual that they will have to turn from sin and to God. There will be a remnant that will be saved.
All of THEM, the remnant will be saved. That menas the saved remnant is the nation of Israel.

 

[Dave Lucas]

And you still have not posted any Bible verses to validate your claim that the Bible says that Israel must share the promised land.

I ask you again for the 4th time to please do this. Remember, YOU own your comment and it is now incumbant upon YOU
to prove Biblicall what you said.

Well, enough of this. You have not answered the challenge because there are NO BIBLE VERSES that say what you claimed.

The fact is.....You are wrong and will not admitt it. You just keep posting "opinions" and not Biblical facts.

The Bible fact is that Israel is Israel and the church is the church. The church has not inherited the promises God made to Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and God is not finished with Israel. IF you had read and done the homework found in Romans 11 you would know that to be a Biblical fact and not my opinion.

God promised the nation of Israel that they would be the head and not the tail of all nations. My dear friend, God never lies and all of the promises He made in the Old Test. to Israel will have a literal fulfillment and that is exactly what Paul confirms for us in Romans 11.

Deuteronomy 28:13 says of the nation of Isreal.........
"And the Lord shall make thee the HEAD and not the tail; and thou shalt be above only, and thou shalt not be beneatth.........."

Jeremiah 7:5-7
Numbers 15:15,16

There are the ones talking about how non-Jews are to be treated and given land of their own to live on. Not to be mistreated nor harmed.

As for them not following the commands, this is from Matthew to Hebrews. The Levitical Order was ended. Just as the Levites had replaced the Aaronic Order. They are to no longer follow the Levitical way by order of God.

In the gospels The King clearly says they will call to him but he will know them not. Those that do not embrace the New Way, accept the restored Order Of Melchizedek are NOT his people.

They MUST change or else they will perish.

This was to both Jew and Gentile to save them some themselves.

If you think the Jews do not have to come to The King, then you are no getting what he said.

 

[Dave Lucas]

That is the same as saying there are no Christians in France! France may be an atheist country BUT there are millions of Christians that live there.

Talk about knee jerk thought!

You see, it is obviouse that you do not grasp the teaching that Paul did in Romans 11. When he said "all Israel shall be saved", he did not mean every individual Israelite will be saved. It is the NATION he has described to us in chapter 11. In every age a remnant for God is saved.

The message then is to the individual that they will have to turn from sin and to God. There will be a remnant that will be saved.
All of THEM, the remnant will be saved. That menas the saved remnant is the nation of Israel.

The secular nation of Israel is NOT following The King. Until they do, they only have death as a right. Nothing more.

 

[KingJ]

The secular nation of Israel is NOT following The King. Until they do, they only have death as a right. Nothing more.

...as was prophesied. What's the point? Not following God makes me Chinese?

 

[Major]

A Jew is someone who converts to Judaism, an adherent to Judaism.

Not so my friend.
Judaism is BOTH a cultural and religious identity
Being Jewish means that you are part of the Jewish people, whether because you were born into a Jewish home and culturally identify as Jewish or because you practice the Jewish religion (or both).

 

[KingJ]

Millions of Muslims also have bible studies. Their religion is still false and none of this justifies occupation of Gaza.

Dropping leaflets has been a common wartime strategy since the airplane was invented. It's good PR and it helps demoralize the enemy. And, I don't think killing over a thousand Palestinians in response to the murder of the three Israeli teens constitutes incredible restraint, especially given that Hamas hasn't been linked to the murders. You want me to give Israel credit for not committing genocide. Sorry, I won't do that.

God has not cast away his people. But, those not faithful to God are not his people, even those Israelis who are members of the tribe of Benjamin, which is none of them.

I am not against the Palestinians living there. It has been some 2000 years. But surely they can show more respect / have a lot of understanding for the Jews? They do not have another homeland. That area was there's for a long time and is rich with their history...and what a history of God's hand on them it is....that only an idiot would forget / ignore.

The Palestinians should have expected a return of the Jews...given their past!

 

[Major]

The secular nation of Israel is NOT following The King. Until they do, they only have death as a right. Nothing more.

And that is exactly why God said in Romans 11:30-32...........
"For just as you once were disobedient to God, but now have been shown mercy because of their disobedience, 31 so these also now have been disobedient, that because of the mercy shown to you they also may now be shown mercy. 32 For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all."

Both the Jew and the Gentile are in the stubborn state of rebellion and unbelief! The failure of Israel is the same failure we have. UNBELIEF. Israel was "set aside" because of their unbelief and that does not mean that they disapeard.

In Scripture, the "olive tree" is a picture of the nation of Israel and the "wild olive" is the church. Everything that YOU and I are is rooted in the fact that God called.....ABRAHAM, ISAAC AND JACOB and out of the nation of Israel in the line of Abraham, came the Lord Jesus Christ, our Saviour and Lord.

That my dear friends is exactly why God had Paul write in Romans 11:1.......
"I say then, Hath God cast away his people? GOD FORBID........"!!!!!

Literally that mean.............."LET IT NOT BE SO"!!!!

Romans 11:2.......
"GOD HATH NOT CAST AWAY HIS PEOPLE WHICH HE FOREKNEW".

Now, I am at a loss for words to encourage those who believe that the church has somehow become the nation of Israel and now has inherited the promises that God made to Israel. May the Holy Spirit open your eyes to the Bible facts of this subject.

The truth is, and the reason I have hammered this fact so hard is that if you get this doctrine wrong, you will get a whole bunch of other doctrine wrong.

 

[Major]

...as was prophesied. What's the point? Not following God makes me Chinese?

Agreed!

 

[Major]

The secular nation of Israel is NOT following The King. Until they do, they only have death as a right. Nothing more.

And you think all the other nations of the world are????

See, you have totally missed the whole point that the Bible teaches about this.

You read the informantion posted and all you got from it was.........
"The secular nation of Israel is NOT following The King. Until they do, they only have death as a right."

 

[Major]

Where does it say in the Bible that Israel needs US tax dollars to survive?

If it is God's agenda that Israel will not fall then it doesn't matter what Russia, China, Iran, ect has for an agenda.

Really?

Genesis 12:1-3
Now the Lord had said to Abram: “Get out of your country, From your familyAnd from your father’s house,
To a land that I will show you.2 I will make you a great nation; I will bless youAnd make your name great;
And you shall be a blessing. 3 I will bless those who bless you, And I will curse him who curses you;
And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”

 

[Major]

Daniel says the second temple will be built, the messiah will come, then the temple will be destroyed, and the weeks expire in the first century.

But, you read the second temple will be built, the messiah will come, then the third(?) temple temple will be destroyed thousands of years after(?) the weeks expire.

I have to disagree. I see nothing in the Bible about another temple being built. I'm not given to creative and convoluted interpretations of scripture. Sacrifice and oblations ended in the first century.

You say that you ......" I see nothing in the Bible about another temple being built. I'm not given to creative and convoluted interpretations of scripture.

I do not think that is the case. It seems to me that you just do not believe and accept what the Scripture say.

Yes they ended because Jerusalem and the Temple were destroyed and the people dispersed.

Yes, there will be a Third Temple just as the Scriptures tell us.

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4English Standard Version (ESV)
3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4 who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. "

 

[JohnC]

Let's take a minute to go through the idiom of the Olive Tree that Paul presents in Romans......

I think the idiom is pretty interesting...... but also quite humbling.....

So.... 2 things can happen to kill trees.... The Root gets sick/attacked or the Branches get sick/attacked.....

When the Root dies - the tree dies.... The only thing you can do is to graft branches Off of the original root onto a new root......

When the Branches die, disease spreads to the root and the Root dies as well.... The only thing you can do is to cut off the diseased/infested branches BEFORE they kill the root......

In this case - Paul says the Natural Branches were removed..... You remove branches because they are Diseased or Infested..... Disease is something internal to the branches.... Infestation is something external to the branches......

For Infestation - ref the parables of the Wheat and Tares and the Mustard seed growing into a huge tree..... For Disease - think "The heart of man is incurably wicked"......

Now.... WHY would one graft in WILD branches?
You would graft in Wild branches to Save the Root.....
Wild branches have ONE SINGLE thing going for them.... They are TOUGH... They ENDURE..... They are grizzled by the beatings of the world... but they still hang in there....
They are NOT particularly fruitful.... They do NOT produce the most choice fruit..... They do not bear regularly...... They are not particularly desirable..... BUT... They ENDURE.... They are Tough.... They RESIST.....
You may also do this to hide the tree... To conceal the Good Root from things that would otherwise destroy it... because now - the tree "Looks" like all the other wild trees.....

So... Was it God's final desire to grow a tree that is Tough and Endures persecution but doesn't really bear much fruit... and the fruit it bears - while not BAD - is not particularly desirable?

Or... Was it God's desire to save the Tree through a period of intense pressure - so the tree could later be put back to productive bearing of choice, good fruit?

 

[ASUK]

Really?

Genesis 12:1-3
Now the Lord had said to Abram: “Get out of your country, From your familyAnd from your father’s house,
To a land that I will show you.2 I will make you a great nation; I will bless youAnd make your name great;
And you shall be a blessing. 3 I will bless those who bless you, And I will curse him who curses you;
And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”

I don't see the connection. That verse can be taken any way you want.

 

[Major]

Propaganda.



The Bible teaches us to obey those in authority over us. The UN is the authority over Israel, and indeed, the legal source for Israel's existence in the first place. The UN has not resolved the land to Israel but still holds that Israel is an occupier in violation of international law.

Honestly........do you really think about and look at what you say????

You said..........
"The UN has authority over Israel?????"

Where in the world have you been in the last 50 years. NO ONE DOES WHAT THE UN SAYS! The UN is over NO ONE! Yes they may adopt resolusions but the fact is no one obays them unless they want to. It is a total waste of money and time.

Then you said............
"The UN is the legal source for Israel's existance in the first place."

Holy cow, this is beginning to sound like Sunday School 101. Are you really serious??? Do you actually read the Scriptures at all my brother. I am sory that sounds so personal, BUT dadgummed it man. Do some homw work before making such outlandish statements that make you look foolish.

Genesis 12:1-3.........
"1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee: 2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great ; and thou shalt be a blessing:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed ."

Ezek 39:27-29 ............
"When I have brought them back from the nations and have gathered them from the countries of their enemies, I will show myself holy through them in the sight of many nations." 28 "Then they will know that I am the LORD their God, for though I sent them into exile among the nations, I will gather them to their own land, not leaving any behind." 29 "I will no longer hide my face from them, for I will pour out my Spirit on the house of Israel, declares the Sovereign LORD."

Amos 9:13-15 ...............
"The days are coming, declares the LORD, when the reaper will be overtaken by the plowman and the planter by the one treading grapes. New wine will drip from the mountains and flow from all the hills. 14 I will bring back my exiled people Israel; they will rebuild the ruined cities and live in them. They will plant vineyards and drink their wine; they will make gardens and eat their fruit. 15 I will plant Israel in their own land, never again to be uprooted from the land I have given them, says the LORD your God."

Jer 30:2 .................
"This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: 'Write in a book all the words I have spoken to you. 3 The days are coming,' declares the LORD, 'when I will bring my people Israel and Judah back from captivity and restore them to the land I gave their forefathers to possess,' says the LORD."

Jer 31:10 ....................
"Hear the word of the LORD, O nations; proclaim it in distant coastlands: 'He who scattered Israel will gather them and will watch over his flock like a shepherd."

The source of Israel's existance my friend is God. What part of the Bible verses do you not understand?????

 

[Dave Lucas]

And so we prop up another fallen nation with our tax dollars because a handful of Levites think we should lest we be branded heretics to Jesus.

The fear runs deep in this whole affair. Fear is an art of the enemy.

The secular nation of Israel should stand or fall on its own. No Christian should support a fallen nation. We should witness to them, but not prop them up.