Very Concerned

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by SueJLove, Jul 28, 2014.

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  1. I am very concerned over the vast number of Christians who are strongly standing with the physical nation of Israel and believe that in doing so they are standing with God. I DO NOT STAND with nor do I SUPPORT the physical nation of Israel. The reason why is:

    · They are not true Israel – Ro. 9:6b-8

    · They are not Abraham’s children (offspring) – Ro. 9:6b-8

    · They are not the children of promise – Ro. 9:6b-8

    · They are not God’s children – Ro. 9:6b-8

    · We, the true church, are all the above – Ro. 9:6b-8

    · They were broken off from God’s vine due to unbelief – Ro. 11

    · They are enemies of the gospel of Jesus Christ – Ro. 11

    · Although a remnant will be saved, they are still enemies of the gospel – Ro. 11

    · Jesus Christ made believing Jews and Gentiles one in Christ – Eph. 2:14-18

    · In Christ, there is neither Jew or Gentile – all one in Christ – Gal. 3:28

    · In Christ Jesus we are all children of God through faith – Gal. 3:26

    · If we belong to Christ, we are Abraham’s seed – Gal. 3:29

    · If we belong to Christ, we are heirs according to the promise – Gal. 3:29

    · Those who do not belong to Christ are none of the above (3) – Gal. 3:26-29

    · Physical Jerusalem is of Hagar, the slave woman – Gal. 4:22-31

    · Physical Jerusalem is in slavery with her children – Gal. 4:22-31

    · Physical Israel is a son born according to the flesh – Gal. 4:22-31

    · Physical Israel is a persecutor of Christ and his offspring – Gal. 4:22-31

    · Believers in Jesus Christ are of the Jerusalem that is above – Gal. 4:22-31

    · Believers in Jesus Christ are the children of promise – Gal. 4:22-31

    · Believers in Jesus Christ are the children of the free woman – Gal. 4:22-31

    · Physical Israel is against the God of Abraham – Matt. 12:30

    · Physical Israel does not worship the God of Abraham – Jn. 8:19

    · Physical Israel does not belong to God but to Satan – Jn. 8:42-47

    So, if I were to stand with the physical nation of Israel I would be supporting a people group who does not believe in the God of Abraham, does not worship him, are not the children of promise, are not the children of God, are enemies of the gospel of Jesus Christ, are persecutors of Christ Jesus and his offspring, are of Satan, and they do the work of the devil. These are not my words. This is what scripture teaches. If you are standing with this godless nation, and you are supporting them, scripture would thus indicate that you are supporting godless people who oppose the gospel of Christ, who are enemies of the cross, who persecute and perhaps even put to death believers in Christ, and who are of Satan. Physical Israel is antichrist. They could be The Antichrist, so you could be supporting the antichrist in the murdering of Christians, who are the true descendants of Abraham. Please think about this. Please pray about this. Would God be pleased with you giving your support to the enemy of Christ, and of his gospel and his people? We who are believers in Christ are the ones Christians are to support and stand with, not in sin, but in the faith.
  2. #2 Silk, Jul 28, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2014
    Sorry Sue - we disagree and God does not renig on His promises. If, as some say, there is a pretrib rapture, which I'm starting to lean more and more to, the Jewish remnant will be the only reason for Christ Second Coming, when they realize their error and ask for His help. It's called Jacob's Trouble, after all and the woman with sun and moon as her garments and 12 stars is Israel (as defined by Daniel and described in Rev 12:1 ) - who gave birth to Jesus (thru the Patriarchal line). Our faith is based and rooted in Israel - the Jews and the church did not replace them. Without the Jews there would be no Christianity. If there is no cry for help because the Jews have been eliminated - Satan will have won. Anti semitism is all due to Satan's hatred of God's people-the chosen and it is his very last chance to bollux Eve's and Adam's seed. It's all kinda clear these days for me re reading Revelation. God's plan includes them as well as us Christians.
    autumn oddity, Abdicate, Heart_for_Christ and 3 others say Amen and like this.
  3. Right!!
  4. Sue's post clearly shows that God's promise is not with the physical nation of Israel. So, your argument that God does not renege on his promises is invalid.
  5. Silk, God's promises are to the seed of Abraham, that is the children of promise, that is believers in Jesus Christ. Scripture is real clear that those who are God's children are the enemies of Satan. The Jews are not God's children. In the context of Jeremiah 30, where "Jacob's trouble" is mentioned, Israel is God's people and they are being disciplined for their idolatry and spiritual adultery. Only those who have faith in Jesus Christ are the children of God, and only Christians can be guilty of spiritual adultery and idolatry against God. There are not two Israels. Jesus Christ made Jew and Gentile one "man" in Christ. There are only saved and unsaved. The church did replace the Jews as God's chosen people. That is what all those scriptures I referred to above teach. When Jesus made one man out of the two, he destroyed the barrier between the two. He replaced the two with one, and that one is only through faith in Jesus Christ. We are the descendants of Abraham. We are the children of promise. And, God will discipline his church (see Rev. 2-3). Satan does not hate the Jews because the Jews are not God's people. Jesus said they do not know God because they don't know him. He said their father is the devil and they do the devil's work. Satan is after those who hold to the testimony of Christ and who do not deny his name.
  6. BTW, I meant Genesis (where Joseph had prophetic dream that 11 stars and sun (father) and moon (mother) bowed down to him) not Daniel. And God's promise to Abraham and Issac, Jacob and Joseph was for the physical land of Israel. And I wasn't saying God renigs - I was saying He has kept His promise and the Jews are part of God's plan and they will return to Him thru Christ.
    TezriLi likes this.
  7. God's promise is to the -patriarchal seed of Abraham and that's the Jews.
    TezriLi likes this.
  8. The Jews are first on Satan's hatred list - look at history.
    autumn oddity, Heart_for_Christ, Major and 2 others say Amen and like this.
  9. There are 550+ allusions to the OT to help us understand Revelation. All these make plain that the Jews are why the 2nd coming will happen. The tribulation (midway?) should have the remnant fleeing to the wilderness - Jews and the few others who accept Christ.
    TezriLi likes this.
  10. True believers will already be with Christ.
  11. We do not replace the Jews.
    autumn oddity, Heart_for_Christ, Ravindran and 2 others say Amen and like this.
  12. Israel has separation of church and state (so do we altho in Deerborn, Mi, they pledge allegiance to Allah!) The muslims don't believe in that separation and that's why Christians are being wiped out in the middle east. The vast majority of Israelis practice their religion. They have been bombed by 2,000 missiles in the last few weeks - CNN says Hamas has 10,000 more left. This Gaza War started because: (Hashem refers to God and scripture is quoted in Hebrew)

  13. Silk, please do not believe everything you read or hear in the news. Also, please read through those scriptures I shared prayerfully before God and ask The Lord to show you what is true. Remember that at the end of time it will be a time of great deception. I believe we are living in that time of great deception. We need to test everything we hear against the word of truth. Satan has no reason to be after the Jews. He is after the children of promise, which is the church. Ask The Lord Jesus to show you who Satan is after. Ask him to show you through his word who the Jews are today and what role they play now in world events. Ask him to show you if what you are seeing and reading in the news is true or false.
  14. I am going through a period of silence when it comes to most debates. I'm just tired. Very tired.

    But I have appreciated what my "little sister" (by only about three years) Silk has written here. A wise woman -- Silk. So I back her by my "Amens/Likes."

    I love it -- the "smart" ones, the "wise" ones agree with me. Ha-ha-ha! Isn't human nature funny?
  15. But where is her scriptural support for all of her statements above? And what about the scriptures I shared? Do we ignore what the scriptures teach? The scriptures are clear that the physical nation of Israel are not the people of God. In fact, they are of Satan. They are enemies are God, Jesus Christ, his church and the gospel of Jesus Christ. So if we stand with them against their enemies we are standing with Satan and against God and against Christ and against his church and his gospel and we are standing with persecutors of Christians and those who would like to wipe out the gospel message. We live in a time of great deception. Satan would like nothing more than to get Christians on his side supporting his work thinking they are doing what is right. Read the scriptures I posted. Ask God to show you what is true, and please be discerning about what you read in the news.
  16. I agree that we should not stand with Israel simply on the basis of them being Israel. They are largely a secular nation. However I think we should stand for them on the basis of justice. The present nation of Israel from its inception has been largely victimized. From the holocaust to today where Muslims openly proclaim their intention to commit mass murder against Jews. Consider even the recent conflict where Hamas initiated this war by randomly firing missles into Israel. I think it's absurd that the UN wants to bring up war crimes against Israel while turning a blind eye to what Hamas has been doing. It just demonstrates the prejudice the world has against Israel. It would be unconscionable for the US to affirm Muslims attempt at genocide. Antisemitism is prejudice and injustice.

    Are you really "very concerned" for Israel?
  17. I would, personally, write that you, like many in the churches, just don't understand. Silk knows the Scriptures, as do I, that back what she has written. We also know the ones you have written, but we disagree with you in your analysis of them, Sue. That happens. :)
    Silk likes this.
  18. I gree with you to a great extend in this post, Steve.
  19. This is madness Sue ;). All you need to know is that Jesus was born a Jew in Israel. Jews returned to Israel per prophecy. Also don't forget the 70 weeks to reconcile. Daniel 9:24: Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
    Silk likes this.
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