The Ten Commandment Are Universal

thoughtfulme said:
First, how did I forbid you to do anything? I have no control over your posts. Second I will stand by my statement.

I never said this was possible to keep it, and that is the point. But one must have a standard to know they need a Savior, and I believe TC is that universal standard.

Romans 3:20
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Romans 5:20–21
20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: 21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

What law did the gentile know in their hearts? Possibly not to kill, steal, lie, to respect parents. Some of these were found in the
Code of Hammurabi so they were somewhat universal by the time Moses wrote them.

Romans 2:12–14 (KJV 1900)
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

I think I made it clear, that we need Jesus because we could not keep the law, with this statement.
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I never said........."You forbid me to say anything"?????

Please do not think that I am being argumentative with you in any way. Just asking and clarifying your comments as a lot of people who read what we post are not as educated in theology as your are.

So then, You said............
" But one must have a standard to know they need a Savior, and I believe TC is that universal standard."

What is "TC"???

Then if I may ask.....isn't what you are saying more of a philosophical question than anything else.
I am just asking.....if "knowing I need a standard to be saved, does that not imply DOING something to begin with".?

What I believe is that no one needs to know anything to be saved. Now I know what you are saying be living up to a standard, what I am saying is Jesus died for my sins, which means I must believe I am a sinner. That is all I need to know.

Do you think that one might need conviction of sin to know that they need a Saviour.
 
Major said:
I never said........."You forbid me to say anything"?????
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Sorry, I misunderstood.
Major said:
Please do not think that I am being argumentative with you in any way. Just asking and clarifying your comments as a lot of people who read what we post are not as educated in theology as your are.

So then, You said............
" But one must have a standard to know they need a Savior, and I believe TC is that universal standard."

What is "TC"???

Then if I may ask.....isn't what you are saying more of a philosophical question than anything else.
I am just asking.....if "knowing I need a standard to be saved, does that not imply DOING something to begin with".?

What I believe is that no one needs to know anything to be saved. Now I know what you are saying be living up to a standard, what I am saying is Jesus died for my sins, which means I must believe I am a sinner. That is all I need to know.
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TC = Ten Commandments. Having a standard is a measuring stick so that you realize you fall short. Romans 3:23. One must first realize they are a sinner before they need a Savior. Even as Saints, we still need to know when we fall short so that we can confess our sins. Some evangelists use the TC when they witness to first show people they are sinners before they show them the Savior. The law leads us to know we are sinners, which then leads us to find grace from Jesus.
I must believe I am a sinner. That is all I need to know.
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My question to you is, how would you know you are a sinner?
 
thoughtfulme said:
Sorry, I misunderstood. TC = Ten Commandments. Having a standard is a measuring stick so that you realize you fall short. Romans 3:23. One must first realize they are a sinner before they need a Savior. Even as Saints, we still need to know when we fall short so that we can confess our sins. Some evangelists use the TC when they witness to first show people they are sinners before they show them the Savior. The law leads us to know we are sinners, which then leads us to find grace from Jesus. My question to you is, how would you know you are a sinner?
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Hello thoughtfulme;

I'm sorry for misunderstanding - what seems a simple title The Ten Commandments Are Universal can make one stop and do a self check. Suddenly the personal answer becomes difficult to articulate.

Thank you for clarifying TC. I'm not very quick and sharp when it comes to acronyms and at times will get hung up on the acronym instead of the verb of the topic.

thoughtfulme asks, "My question to you is, how would you know you are a sinner?"

Putting aside Systematic and Biblical Theology wording, here goes. I have a relationship with God daily and speak with Him about everything and anything. I BELIEVE I am indwelt by the Holy Spirit working in my life as a believer.

When I ponder on those moments, or a time leading me to sin - by letting down the guard of my heart and tongue, judging others quietly from my heart, having murderous thoughts of violence (anger, hatred, bitterness, unforgiveness) lust thoughts in my mind being a married man, and my outer cup uttering flattering words toward that person while my inner cup has reservations about him/her; allowing all this to fester in me;

This is when I know I'm a sinner and must get on my knees daily.

1. You shall have no other Gods before me. How many times in my life did the world take my heart away from God?

2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven images. How the sparkling glitter of things mesmerized me.

3. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain. I'm guilty of the past by letting the guard of my tongue and using God's name in vain whether in anger, getting startled or joyful excitement.

4. Remember the Sabbath day and keep it Holy. There were those times when I didn't even give a thought about remembering that one day of Holiness, not just the Sabbath, but the whole week or an exciting weekend while getting away.

5. Honor your father and mother. I've made so many mistakes with bringing disappointment and shame to my parents, individually and together.

6. Thou shalt not kill. — God wants us to protect human life. I have battled with murderous thoughts of anger, bitterness, hatred and violence toward others.

7. Thou shalt not commit adultery. — This means husbands and wives should be faithful to one another. Many times I had lust thoughts of beautiful women while being married.

8. Thou shalt not steal. I have stolen, not just material but people's hopes from my promises.

9. Thou shall not bear false witness. I have let unwholesome talk come out of my mouth.

10. You shall not covet. Through my jealousy of God's blessings to another, I wanted those things that belonged to another.

In Jesus' mission, He didn't abolish the Law but fulfilled it with His Love Commandments. The most profound command taught to me is from Matthew 22:37-39, 37 And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38 This is the great and first commandment. 39 And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. - ESV

I must be careful not to humble brag about my past sins. I hate my sins and cannot take back what I have done against God. But I thank God daily for my convictions prompted by the Holy Spirit. I shudder at my sins but am also empowered to act on it and repent. I am also grateful and relieved because of God's grace, forgiveness, redemption.

God bless everyone here, and allowing me to share my testimony.
 
thoughtfulme said:
Sorry, I misunderstood.

TC = Ten Commandments. Having a standard is a measuring stick so that you realize you fall short. Romans 3:23. One must first realize they are a sinner before they need a Savior. Even as Saints, we still need to know when we fall short so that we can confess our sins. Some evangelists use the TC when they witness to first show people they are sinners before they show them the Savior. The law leads us to know we are sinners, which then leads us to find grace from Jesus.

My question to you is, how would you know you are a sinner?
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TC =OK. I do not text so I had no idea.

How do I know that I am a sinner. ???????

The same way that I know you are a sinner!!!!

Rom. 3:23....."ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God". ALL means ALL human beings!

I do understand what you are saying. We all miss the standard because we are sinners and sin is disobeying God and I agree.

All I am saying to you is that we can not be saved or stay saved by keeping the law that condemns us.

Salvation by law-keeping requires obedience — indeed, perfect obedience — as the basis of our salvation. That’s never going to happen. If we want to try to be saved by law-keeping, Galatians 5:3 says to have at it, and you’ve got to keep the whole law, and it isn’t going to happen. So, salvation by law-keeping is a dead-end street. By the law comes death.
 
thoughtfulme said:
I have no idea what you are talking about. Are you even reading what I have written? Have you read James? Have you not read Paul?

James 2:17
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Ephesians 2:10
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
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Is it fair to interpret James 2:17 as - if a person says that they have faith in God but doesn’t do good works then they don’t have true faith in God?
I have heard this point raised by Jordan Peterson before where he said that it’s quite a bold statement to say that we believe in God because if we did believe in God then we would essentially keep all his commands because the consequences are so great if we don’t. So we don’t actually have faith in God because we keep sinning even though we know how terrible it is for us at the end.
But I guess I would say that to know is different than to understand. We may know what the consequences are but we don’t really comprehend the magnitude of these consequences.
 
thoughtfulme said:
Once I write something like the Ten Commandments or the Holy of Holies I am lazy and would rather just use initials.
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Understood.

I was a wise guy toward my teachers in high school. When I was in 10th or 11th grade I attended Monday night youth group.

I asked the youth group teacher, "if I ended up in hell, I would burn, right?" She said, yes. Then I asked, "after awhile wouldn't I get used to it?"

lol! The class erupted in laughter but it didn't go well with her so she responded with, "I don't know. When you get there let us know, ok?"

Again, the class erupted in laughter but this time I kept my mouth shut the rest of the class. Lesson learned that night from trying to show up our teacher at her expense.

Luke 6:40, A disciple is not above his teacher, but everyone when he is fully trained will be like his teacher.

By God's grace she knew me and pushed back her sense of humor on me. But I knew she was patient with me.
 
BibleLover said:
If you forget to confess a sinful thought while driving and get into a fatal accident, do you go to hell?
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God knows out pattern of asking forgiveness and that shall prevail. God is not unfair.
Carry your hypothesis further; If you question that point then what would God do if one sinned and was hit in the head with a deadly bullet all at the same time. You have concern? I think not.
 
Major said:
Really????

That amazes me.

Keeping the law to be righteouse is WORKS. Anything we do to effect our salvational experience in Christ is WORKS!

IF....IF....we do not have works AFTER we say that we are save, then we are not saved! That is what James said my friend. Works come from faith in Christ NOT the other way around.
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Don't be so amazed that you forget to respond to....faith without works is dead...point?
 
gpresdo said:
Don't be so amazed that you forget to respond to....faith without works is dead...point?
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Read post #29 where I said...................."IF....IF....we do not have works AFTER we say that we are save, then we are not saved! That is what James said my friend. Works come from faith in Christ NOT the other way around."

How is that being forgetful?????

Works do not save. Works do not keep you saved.
Works simply mean that you are doing what you are supposed to do because you are what you say you are.....A Christian!.
 
thoughtfulme said:
First, how did I forbid you to do anything? I have no control over your posts. Second I will stand by my statement.

I never said this was possible to keep it, and that is the point. But one must have a standard to know they need a Savior, and I believe TC is that universal standard.

Romans 3:20
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Romans 5:20–21
20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: 21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

What law did the gentile know in their hearts? Possibly not to kill, steal, lie, to respect parents. Some of these were found in the
Code of Hammurabi so they were somewhat universal by the time Moses wrote them.

Romans 2:12–14 (KJV 1900)
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

I think I made it clear, that we need Jesus because we could not keep the law, with this statement.
Click to expand...
Let's start with "you shall have no other gods before me.:

So there's a problem right off the bat. If you assume this commandment to be universal, then over 70% of the planet is in constant violation of this every second of every day. Just something to think about.
 
I read over some statements on this and they were very interesting. Yes we cannot keep the law nor we are saved through the law but they are there as boundaries and tender commandments to show us that God has specific rules to follow. Should we follow, they bring blessings upon us. We also reap what we sow. If we sow seeds of disobedient or rebellion, clearly in the pages of the bible we have seen countless examples of people reaping what they sowed by their actions and sins.

Now I propose another question.
Why do we have laws at all then in society if we truly cannot keep the laws that God has laid out specifically? God is a God of order, authority and rank. We see that in the church with in the Body of Christ, we see that in Christ being the head of the Church, we also see that in marriages as the husband and wife.

Society could say we don't need laws because they will do no good, we cannot follow them and therefore it is a waste of time since we are all sinners and so forth.

The laws are to keep us safe - again not to be saved through the law because we aren't. We aren't saved by works only by faith in Jesus Christ.

We obey because we love Him. We obey because it is the outward expression of our dedication, commitment and gratitude for what Christ has done for us on the finished work of the cross. God sent His Only Son so that we would not perish but have everlasting life in Him. The salvation package is free but it came at a high cost.

I find it almost amusing when the theory goes that just because we have forgiveness we don't need to now follow anything because we can't keep it so truly it is a waste of time. Then I think why would someone remain faithful in a marriage then? Why would someone not steal at a job then? Why would someone not grab a weapon and murder in anger then as a response to everyday life if these laws weren't valid and given to us as boundaries and rules for living?

Of course we are in sinful bodies, we still struggle with flesh vs spirit. We have the Holy Spirit to guide us into all truth and revelation. The commandments are universal for all [intended for all to follow because we are all created by God although they won't and don't.] In fact Jesus said the 2 greatest commands is Love the Lord Your God with all your heart, mind and soul and love your neighbour as yourself - these 2 were hung on the law of the prophets. So IF you love God with everything you wouldn't want to do it, nor would you make any excuse not to practice, apply and live it out. Because faith would out works [living practicing applying works] without action is = dead.

Just my take on it. I hope it challenges and stirs some thought.
 
TransformedinChrist said:
I read over some statements on this and they were very interesting. Yes we cannot keep the law nor we are saved through the law but they are there as boundaries and tender commandments to show us that God has specific rules to follow. Should we follow, they bring blessings upon us. We also reap what we sow. If we sow seeds of disobedient or rebellion, clearly in the pages of the bible we have seen countless examples of people reaping what they sowed by their actions and sins.

Now I propose another question.
Why do we have laws at all then in society if we truly cannot keep the laws that God has laid out specifically? God is a God of order, authority and rank. We see that in the church with in the Body of Christ, we see that in Christ being the head of the Church, we also see that in marriages as the husband and wife.

Society could say we don't need laws because they will do no good, we cannot follow them and therefore it is a waste of time since we are all sinners and so forth.

The laws are to keep us safe - again not to be saved through the law because we aren't. We aren't saved by works only by faith in Jesus Christ.

We obey because we love Him. We obey because it is the outward expression of our dedication, commitment and gratitude for what Christ has done for us on the finished work of the cross. God sent His Only Son so that we would not perish but have everlasting life in Him. The salvation package is free but it came at a high cost.

I find it almost amusing when the theory goes that just because we have forgiveness we don't need to now follow anything because we can't keep it so truly it is a waste of time. Then I think why would someone remain faithful in a marriage then? Why would someone not steal at a job then? Why would someone not grab a weapon and murder in anger then as a response to everyday life if these laws weren't valid and given to us as boundaries and rules for living?

Of course we are in sinful bodies, we still struggle with flesh vs spirit. We have the Holy Spirit to guide us into all truth and revelation. The commandments are universal for all [intended for all to follow because we are all created by God although they won't and don't.] In fact Jesus said the 2 greatest commands is Love the Lord Your God with all your heart, mind and soul and love your neighbour as yourself - these 2 were hung on the law of the prophets. So IF you love God with everything you wouldn't want to do it, nor would you make any excuse not to practice, apply and live it out. Because faith would out works [living practicing applying works] without action is = dead.

Just my take on it. I hope it challenges and stirs some thought.
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I absolutely agree! My whole point and actually only point in this thread, is that keeping the Law is needed for a man to be saved or stay saved or be in a right relationship with God is unnecessary and in fact impossible.

My point is that we are saved and in a right relationship with God because we are IN CHRIST through faith in the Lord Jesus and He is God!
We can not keep the law to be saved but HE did and He forgives us of our sins before we commit those sins.
 
TransformedinChrist said:
I read over some statements on this and they were very interesting. Yes we cannot keep the law nor we are saved through the law but they are there as boundaries and tender commandments to show us that God has specific rules to follow. Should we follow, they bring blessings upon us. We also reap what we sow. If we sow seeds of disobedient or rebellion, clearly in the pages of the bible we have seen countless examples of people reaping what they sowed by their actions and sins.

Now I propose another question.
Why do we have laws at all then in society if we truly cannot keep the laws that God has laid out specifically? God is a God of order, authority and rank. We see that in the church with in the Body of Christ, we see that in Christ being the head of the Church, we also see that in marriages as the husband and wife.

Society could say we don't need laws because they will do no good, we cannot follow them and therefore it is a waste of time since we are all sinners and so forth.

The laws are to keep us safe - again not to be saved through the law because we aren't. We aren't saved by works only by faith in Jesus Christ.

We obey because we love Him. We obey because it is the outward expression of our dedication, commitment and gratitude for what Christ has done for us on the finished work of the cross. God sent His Only Son so that we would not perish but have everlasting life in Him. The salvation package is free but it came at a high cost.

I find it almost amusing when the theory goes that just because we have forgiveness we don't need to now follow anything because we can't keep it so truly it is a waste of time. Then I think why would someone remain faithful in a marriage then? Why would someone not steal at a job then? Why would someone not grab a weapon and murder in anger then as a response to everyday life if these laws weren't valid and given to us as boundaries and rules for living?

Of course we are in sinful bodies, we still struggle with flesh vs spirit. We have the Holy Spirit to guide us into all truth and revelation. The commandments are universal for all [intended for all to follow because we are all created by God although they won't and don't.] In fact Jesus said the 2 greatest commands is Love the Lord Your God with all your heart, mind and soul and love your neighbour as yourself - these 2 were hung on the law of the prophets. So IF you love God with everything you wouldn't want to do it, nor would you make any excuse not to practice, apply and live it out. Because faith would out works [living practicing applying works] without action is = dead.

Just my take on it. I hope it challenges and stirs some thought.
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Because faith without [not would] - thank you for editing.
Major said:
I absolutely agree! My whole point and actually only point in this thread, is that keeping the Law is needed for a man to be saved or stay saved or be in a right relationship with God is unnecessary and in fact impossible.

My point is that we are saved and in a right relationship with God because we are IN CHRIST through faith in the Lord Jesus and He is God!
We can not keep the law to be saved but HE did and He forgives us of our sins before we commit those sins.
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Yes he did! When he said it was finished on the cross. It is and was and eternally is finished.
 
TransformedinChrist said:
Because faith without [not would] - thank you for editing.

Yes he did! When he said it was finished on the cross. It is and was and eternally is finished.
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YES. And that statement alone tells us that there is nothing we need to do to be saved except to BELIEVE upon HIM.

You will see some here who promote their personal agenda of mixing Law keeping with Faith to be a child of God.
They are sincere and I do not question their faith but they are Biblically in error.
 
Major said:
YES. And that statement alone tells us that there is nothing we need to do to be saved except to BELIEVE upon HIM.

You will see some here who promote their personal agenda of mixing Law keeping with Faith to be a child of God.
They are sincere and I do not question their faith but they are Biblically in error.
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Yes. Just like the perfect picture of the thief on the cross with Jesus. All he had to do was repent, call on His name. He was promised paradise with Christ.
 
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