The Ten Commandment Are Universal

[thoughtfulme]

I know there is some debate about whether the ten commandments are universal for everyone throughout history.

I would like to make a case that they are. To ground this idea, I want to start in Genesis, where God planted a garden; it was the first kingdom of God on earth. God gave one commandment to the first couple. They broke it! Later, God had Moses construct a tabernacle that was a miniature version of the original creation with the Holy of Holies representing the garden. Just as God kept Adam out of the garden with cherubs, so there were cherubs on the veil of the HOH. The very heart of the HOH was the ark of the covenant, and within it, under the mercy seat, were the ten commandments.

So to me, this says a few things; one is that God has universal laws that people must keep to be righteous. They are under the mercy seat because the hope is that we can find God merciful in holding us to these standards. Of course, when Jesus finished His work on the cross, we were made righteous enough to enter into the HOH, and therefore we fulfilled the law through his righteousness. However, being made righteous does not mean we are free to live unrighteous lives.

After Jesus announced, He was bringing the gospel of the kingdom to the world. He taught the principles of the Ten Commandments in the sermon on the mount.

 

[Major]

I know there is some debate about whether the ten commandments are universal for everyone throughout history.

I would like to make a case that they are. To ground this idea, I want to start in Genesis, where God planted a garden; it was the first kingdom of God on earth. God gave one commandment to the first couple. They broke it! Later, God had Moses construct a tabernacle that was a miniature version of the original creation with the Holy of Holies representing the garden. Just as God kept Adam out of the garden with cherubs, so there were cherubs on the veil of the HOH. The very heart of the HOH was the ark of the covenant, and within it, under the mercy seat, were the ten commandments.

So to me, this says a few things; one is that God has universal laws that people must keep to be righteous. They are under the mercy seat because the hope is that we can find God merciful in holding us to these standards. Of course, when Jesus finished His work on the cross, we were made righteous enough to enter into the HOH, and therefore we fulfilled the law through his righteousness. However, being made righteous does not mean we are free to live unrighteous lives.

After Jesus announced, He was bringing the gospel of the kingdom to the world. He taught the principles of the Ten Commandments in the sermon on the mount.

I do not agree. How do you propose that we keep the law to be righteousness???? We are SINNERS who are totally unable to keep the law! How do you propose that we live up to God's standards?????

The point is that God demands perfect obedience to His law, and that is why Christ’s obedience can justify us. Our obedience cannot make us righteous in His sight because we cannot obey Him perfectly.

Romans 3:23 says "All have sinned and come short of the glory of God" and it applies to the saved as well as the lost!

The Bible does not agree with you however I respect your right to make your opinion. What you are suggesting is that we are saved through works!
God guides them to Mt. Sinai, where Moses receives the Law, and God writes these commandments on tablets of stone. So, the Ten Commandments were for the Jews only.


The Bible says in Romans 3:20-24 shows us that following the law can never make us righteous no matter how hard we try. The law can only show us how imperfect we are and how much we need a Savior. We are made right only through our faith in Christ who died in our place on the cross!

The 10 Commandments were originally given to the children of Israel on Mt. Sinia.
Ex 20:2..... "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery."

Now is the Law good! YES! Is it moral and should we keep it YES.

The problem is that we can not keep the law which is exactly why Jesus HAD TO KEEP THE LAW so that His righteousness could be ADDED to us!

 

[gpresdo]

I do not agree. How do you propose that we keep the law to be righteousness???? We are SINNERS who are totally unable to keep the law! How do you propose that we live up to God's standards?????

The point is that God demands perfect obedience to His law, and that is why Christ’s obedience can justify us. Our obedience cannot make us righteous in His sight because we cannot obey Him perfectly.

Romans 3:23 says "All have sinned and come short of the glory of God" and it applies to the saved as well as the lost!

The Bible does not agree with you however I respect your right to make your opinion. What you are suggesting is that we are saved through works!
God guides them to Mt. Sinai, where Moses receives the Law, and God writes these commandments on tablets of stone. So, the Ten Commandments were for the Jews only.


The Bible says in Romans 3:20-24 shows us that following the law can never make us righteous no matter how hard we try. The law can only show us how imperfect we are and how much we need a Savior. We are made right only through our faith in Christ who died in our place on the cross!

The 10 Commandments were originally given to the children of Israel on Mt. Sinia.
Ex 20:2..... "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery."

Now is the Law good! YES! Is it moral and should we keep it YES.

The problem is that we can not keep the law which is exactly why Jesus HAD TO KEEP THE LAW so that His righteousness could be ADDED to us!

I fail to understand the need to infuse ...works...in to this thread. Thereby necessitating a response......''faith without works is dead".

We maintain proper positioning with Christ by seeking forgiveness of our sins immediately and on a regular basis. If we were perfect then God would not have need to give us unlimited times of forgiveness of our sins. But, we are not perfect thus the need for Christs' intercessor position.
Praise God.

 

[BibleLover]

I fail to understand the need to infuse ...works...in to this thread. Thereby necessitating a response......''faith without works is dead".

We maintain proper positioning with Christ by seeking forgiveness of our sins immediately and on a regular basis. If we were perfect then God would not have need to give us unlimited times of forgiveness of our sins. But, we are not perfect thus the need for Christs' intercessor position.
Praise God.

If you forget to confess a sinful thought while driving and get into a fatal accident, do you go to hell?

 

[BibleLover]

I know there is some debate about whether the ten commandments are universal for everyone throughout history.

I would like to make a case that they are. To ground this idea, I want to start in Genesis, where God planted a garden; it was the first kingdom of God on earth. God gave one commandment to the first couple. They broke it! Later, God had Moses construct a tabernacle that was a miniature version of the original creation with the Holy of Holies representing the garden. Just as God kept Adam out of the garden with cherubs, so there were cherubs on the veil of the HOH. The very heart of the HOH was the ark of the covenant, and within it, under the mercy seat, were the ten commandments.

So to me, this says a few things; one is that God has universal laws that people must keep to be righteous. They are under the mercy seat because the hope is that we can find God merciful in holding us to these standards. Of course, when Jesus finished His work on the cross, we were made righteous enough to enter into the HOH, and therefore we fulfilled the law through his righteousness. However, being made righteous does not mean we are free to live unrighteous lives.

After Jesus announced, He was bringing the gospel of the kingdom to the world. He taught the principles of the Ten Commandments in the sermon on the mount.

The Holy Spirit has written those commandment principles on our hearts and consciences. Those who walk in the Spirit don't need to go around keeping score of how well they're following the Law. They can relax and let the Spirit of God lead and guide them.

 

[gpresdo]

If you forget to confess a sinful thought while driving and get into a fatal accident, do you go to hell?

......and your response to the infusion of....works into the thread ...........faith without works is dead.....is?

 

[gpresdo]

I know there is some debate about whether the ten commandments are universal for everyone throughout history.

I would like to make a case that they are. To ground this idea, I want to start in Genesis, where God planted a garden; it was the first kingdom of God on earth. God gave one commandment to the first couple. They broke it! Later, God had Moses construct a tabernacle that was a miniature version of the original creation with the Holy of Holies representing the garden. Just as God kept Adam out of the garden with cherubs, so there were cherubs on the veil of the HOH. The very heart of the HOH was the ark of the covenant, and within it, under the mercy seat, were the ten commandments.

So to me, this says a few things; one is that God has universal laws that people must keep to be righteous. They are under the mercy seat because the hope is that we can find God merciful in holding us to these standards. Of course, when Jesus finished His work on the cross, we were made righteous enough to enter into the HOH, and therefore we fulfilled the law through his righteousness. However, being made righteous does not mean we are free to live unrighteous lives.

After Jesus announced, He was bringing the gospel of the kingdom to the world. He taught the principles of the Ten Commandments in the sermon on the mount.

You are not positioning that the Ten is all of God's commandments....are you?

 

[Major]

I fail to understand the need to infuse ...works...in to this thread. Thereby necessitating a response......''faith without works is dead".

We maintain proper positioning with Christ by seeking forgiveness of our sins immediately and on a regular basis. If we were perfect then God would not have need to give us unlimited times of forgiveness of our sins. But, we are not perfect thus the need for Christs' intercessor position.
Praise God.

Really????

That amazes me.

Keeping the law to be righteouse is WORKS. Anything we do to effect our salvational experience in Christ is WORKS!

IF....IF....we do not have works AFTER we say that we are save, then we are not saved! That is what James said my friend. Works come from faith in Christ NOT the other way around.

 

[thoughtfulme]

I do not agree. How do you propose that we keep the law to be righteousness???? We are SINNERS who are totally unable to keep the law! How do you propose that we live up to God's standards?????

There is no way by our own will we can keep God's standards; that is why Jesus came. Jesus saved us to give us the power to live holy lives, and holiness is abstract without standards (Romans 6:1-14, 8:1-11, Ephesians 2:1-6)

The point is that God demands perfect obedience to His law, and that is why Christ’s obedience can justify us. Our obedience cannot make us righteous in His sight because we cannot obey Him perfectly.

Yes, we definitely cannot keep the law to be saved, but the law is not evil. Paul said he would not know lust if it were not for the commandments.

Romans 7:7
"What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet."

Because I am saved, I can't say that I am allowed to lust because Jesus saved me, and I have no power to keep from lusting. We are free from the law because lust should have no power over us. Therefore if I am not lusting, I am fulfilling the law.

Romans 3:23 says "All have sinned and come short of the glory of God" and it applies to the saved as well as the lost!

The Bible does not agree with you however I respect your right to make your opinion. What you are suggesting is that we are saved through works!
God guides them to Mt. Sinai, where Moses receives the Law, and God writes these commandments on tablets of stone. So, the Ten Commandments were for the Jews only.

Are you still lost in your sins? Are you still trying to achieve the standards that the Ten Commandments on your own? I am not! I have been redeemed so that I have the power to live in a way that does not offend Jesus' commandment.

The Bible says in Romans 3:20-24 shows us that following the law can never make us righteous no matter how hard we try. The law can only show us how imperfect we are and how much we need a Savior. We are made right only through our faith in Christ who died in our place on the cross!

The 10 Commandments were originally given to the children of Israel on Mt. Sinia.
Ex 20:2..... "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery."
Now is the Law good! YES! Is it moral and should we keep it YES.

Jesus tells us to live by the ten commandments when he says this;

Matthew 22:37–40
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Jesus also taught us how to live the TC to the extreme in His sermon on the mount.

The law shows us we are sinners, and the law cannot make us good people. It reveals our problem. Jesus is the answer to our problem. He can give us the power to live as the law commands.

If we had a problem speeding and kept breaking the law, and somehow we were changed, then we would be free from the law because we would never break it by speeding. Galatians 5:22.

 

[BibleLover]

......and your response to the infusion of....works into the thread ...........faith without works is dead.....is?

You're creating a false dichotomy, pitting works against faith. That logical fallacy creates a false teaching that will harm young Christians.

 

[Major]

There is no way by our own will we can keep God's standards; that is why Jesus came. Jesus saved us to give us the power to live holy lives, and holiness is abstract without standards (Romans 6:1-14, 8:1-11, Ephesians 2:1-6)

Yes, we definitely cannot keep the law to be saved, but the law is not evil. Paul said he would not know lust if it were not for the commandments.

Romans 7:7
"What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet."

Because I am saved, I can't say that I am allowed to lust because Jesus saved me, and I have no power to keep from lusting. We are free from the law because lust should have no power over us. Therefore if I am not lusting, I am fulfilling the law.


Are you still lost in your sins? Are you still trying to achieve the standards that the Ten Commandments on your own? I am not! I have been redeemed so that I have the power to live in a way that does not offend Jesus' commandment.

Jesus tells us to live by the ten commandments when he says this;

Matthew 22:37–40
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Jesus also taught us how to live the TC to the extreme in His sermon on the mount.

The law shows us we are sinners, and the law cannot make us good people. It reveals our problem. Jesus is the answer to our problem. He can give us the power to live as the law commands.

If we had a problem speeding and kept breaking the law, and somehow we were changed, then we would be free from the law because we would never break it by speeding. Galatians 5:22.

Please read post #10 from BibleLover. That is what I am talking about!

It is apparent that since you have an agenda for keeping the 10 Commandments, you have misunderstood what I am saying.
I am not saying that the 10 Comandments are irrelevant or that we should not obey them. We should obey them!!!!
The problem is that only ONE MAN WAS ABLE TO DO THAT!

Working hard to obey the Ten Commandments is the wrong motivation and from the wrong end and is a surefire way to live out our relationship with God in the wrong way. God gave the commandments that they might be obeyed—not to earn salvation or to stay saved, because of who we are or what we do, but in God and in himself, who he is to us, where we are, and what he has done.

The Ten Commandments are not instructions on how to get out of Egypt or a set of rules we must obey to stay in a right relationsip with God. That would make us all ROBOTS and God made us free not robots. They are rules for a free people to stay free and only those who are IN Christ are set free.

 

[thoughtfulme]

You're creating a false dichotomy, pitting works against faith. That logical fallacy creates a false teaching that will harm young Christians.

I have no idea what you are talking about. Are you even reading what I have written? Have you read James? Have you not read Paul?

James 2:17
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Ephesians 2:10
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

 

[thoughtfulme]

Please read post #10 from BibleLover. That is what I am talking about!

It is apparent that since you have an agenda for keeping the 10 Commandments, you have misunderstood what I am saying.
I am not saying that the 10 Comandments are irrelevant or that we should not obey them. We should obey them!!!!
The problem is that only ONE MAN WAS ABLE TO DO THAT!

Working hard to obey the Ten Commandments is the wrong motivation and from the wrong end and is a surefire way to live out our relationship with God in the wrong way. God gave the commandments that they might be obeyed—not to earn salvation or to stay saved, because of who we are or what we do, but in God and in himself, who he is to us, where we are, and what he has done.

The Ten Commandments are not instructions on how to get out of Egypt or a set of rules we must obey to stay in a right relationsip with God. That would make us all ROBOTS and God made us free not robots. They are rules for a free people to stay free and only those who are IN Christ are set free.

What does this have to do with the post that started this? Did you read it?

Of course, when Jesus finished His work on the cross, we were made righteous enough to enter into the HOH, and therefore we fulfilled the law through his righteousness. However, being made righteous does not mean we are free to live unrighteous lives.

 

[BibleLover]

I have no idea what you are talking about. Are you even reading what I have written? Have you read James? Have you not read Paul?

James 2:17
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

Ephesians 2:10
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Works and faith are complementary, not in opposition to each other.

Salvation is the result of faith, and works are the result of salvation.

Unlike some professional "fruit inspectors", I don't go around examining the lives of fellow Christians to make sure they're performing works. BTW: is there a certain quota of specific types of works to prove someone is a genuine believer, and what does one do when they catch an imposter who isn't doing enough works? Do you expose them as fakes before the entire church membership?

 

[BibleLover]

What does this have to do with the post that started this? Did you read it?

Genuine Christian believers (those under control of the Holy Spirit) don't lead habitual unholy lives; God won't let them.

People who claim to be Christians but live in sin without compunction aren't true believers; they're people who went forward at a church meeting to get "fire insurance" when they never intended to surrender their lives to Jesus.

 

[thoughtfulme]

Genuine Christian believers (those under control of the Holy Spirit) don't lead habitual unholy lives; God won't let them.

People who claim to be Christians but live in sin without compunction aren't true believers; they're people who went forward at a church meeting to get "fire insurance" when they never intended to surrender their lives to Jesus.

I have really no idea what you are getting at. It seems you have gone off on something other than this original post.

 

[Siloam]

Setting aside for the moment the discussion concerning works and going back to the 10 Commandments in themselves and whether they are universal...

We know from scripture that the Law is fulfilled by Loving God and Loving our neighbors. With a little reflection we understand that this is not a superficial love but a soul-deep loving commitment.

If you look at each of the commandments, when one breaks any one of them they will of necessity break the commandment to Love God or the one to Love your neighbor.

So the love commandments are in summation form while the Ten commandments are specifics drawn from the summary form.

The problem I see with concentrating on specifics (10 commandments) is that man's nature is one to look for semantic loop-holes that let man do what he wishes.

E.G. The commandment to not bear false witness against ones neighbor could be (wrongly) asserted to only mean giving false testimony against someone in a formal trial and say nothing about knowingly make false statements anout ones self (or giving a false alibi in court).

 

[BibleLover]

Can we make this a thread??? I think it’s a great question. Can we lose our salvation and how?

Why don't you do that?

 

[Major]

What does this have to do with the post that started this? Did you read it?

My dear friend. To answer your question...YES. Because I did allow me to post what YOU stated in the 1st post YOU made..............
" one is that God has universal laws that people must keep to be righteous."
To that statement I replied...............
"How do you propose that we keep the law to be righteousness???? We are SINNERS who are totally unable to keep the law! How do you propose that we live up to God's standards?????

The point is that God demands perfect obedience to His law, and that is why Christ’s obedience can justify us. Our obedience cannot make us righteous in His sight because we cannot obey Him perfectly."
YOUR original comment in the 1st post said that ....."WE MUST KEEP THE LAW TO BE RIGHTEOUSNESS"!

That means WORKS---something we do !!!!! THAT IS WHAT IT HAS TO DO !!!!!!

Ephesians 2:8-9.....
" For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast."

 

[thoughtfulme]

My dear friend. To answer your question...YES. Because I did allow me to post what YOU stated in the 1st post YOU made..............
" one is that God has universal laws that people must keep to be righteous."
To that statement I replied...............
"How do you propose that we keep the law to be righteousness???? We are SINNERS who are totally unable to keep the law! How do you propose that we live up to God's standards?????

The point is that God demands perfect obedience to His law, and that is why Christ’s obedience can justify us. Our obedience cannot make us righteous in His sight because we cannot obey Him perfectly."
YOUR original comment in the 1st post said that ....."WE MUST KEEP THE LAW TO BE RIGHTEOUSNESS"!

That means WORKS---something we do !!!!! THAT IS WHAT IT HAS TO DO !!!!!!

Ephesians 2:8-9.....
" For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast."

First, how did I forbid you to do anything? I have no control over your posts. Second I will stand by my statement.

So to me, this says a few things; one is that God has universal laws that people must keep to be righteous.

I never said this was possible to keep it, and that is the point. But one must have a standard to know they need a Savior, and I believe TC is that universal standard.

Romans 3:20
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Romans 5:20–21
20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: 21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

What law did the gentile know in their hearts? Possibly not to kill, steal, lie, to respect parents. Some of these were found in the
Code of Hammurabi so they were somewhat universal by the time Moses wrote them.

Romans 2:12–14 (KJV 1900)
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. 14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

I think I made it clear, that we need Jesus because we could not keep the law, with this statement.

Of course, when Jesus finished His work on the cross, we were made righteous