God will be reverting back to the Old Covenant time said:
Is The Holy Spirit Or The Church The Restrainer Of 2 Thess.?
- Thread starter Phoneman777
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Paul clearly told the Thessalonians in his first epistle that "The Lord shall descend from heaven with a shout, voice, and trumpet and the dead and living saints are raptured up, which everyone agrees is two events on the same day, but some still insist that Paul changed his story when he wrote the second epistle.
There will be nothing going on down here after Jesus comes to rapture us up. They will have run to the rocks and mountains seeking to escape the destructive power of Christ's glory which slays them "with the sword of His mouth and the brightness of His coming.
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Of course Futurism's "gap theory" contradicts the prophecy. It claims that the 70th week is chopped off and sent down to the end of time, while the Bible says that Jesus was crucified during the 70th week.
Your ignorance of church history is not a basis for discounting it. It is simply an indisputable, well documented historical fact that every single mainline Protestant church both in their writings and from their pulpits taught that the Papacy was the Antichrist of prophecy.
According to Paul, he told the Thessalonians who the Restrainer was, and the ECF are unanimous in their testimony that he told the early church the the Restrainer was the Roman Empire.
I agree with that. That historical fact is one of the reason why there is so much animosity between the Catholic Church and the Protestant church.
It is my firm personal opinion that the church after the Rapture is going to look a lot like the combination of both.
Correct, and I stated that as well in a few comments before this one.
God love you brother but I have to disagree with this one.
I am a "Futerist" and and it is my understanding that when the Holy Spirit is removed and the A/C comes upon the scene, then the 70 weeks are fulfilled in the last seven being lived.
Daniel 9:24-27
King James Version (KJV)
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
The Messiah WAS INDEED CUTOFF-CRUCIFIED! The 69th week of Daniel is still out there waiting on us to get there.
Really an excellent question Paul. I do not mind that such a fine teacher as you would disagree with an old country boy like me. In fact that is some what of an honor!
Would you agree with me that in the Tribulation Period the gospel and how a man gets saved changes?
Consider all the saints that were saved in the Old Test. days and the Holy Spirit did not indwell men then. Correct?????
It seems to me that man would be saved in the same way he was saved in the Old Test. days. Faith in the Messiah which will be preached by the 144,000 PLUS something else..........
"Do not take the Mark of the Beast".
2nd Thess. tells us that the great revival to come will be from the Jews/Israel. Those who have heard today the gospel and rejected Messiah Jesus can not be saved after the Rapture, which leaves the door open for God to deal with His people....the Jews.
It just stands to reason that if the each successive beasts follows on the heels of the previous, then the Ten Horns and the Little Horn would do the same. If not, then we have to insert a 2000 year gap here, just as Futurism inserts the same gap in between the 69th week and the 70th weeks of Daniel 9.
It is foolish to claim that Antichrist came in the 6th century if he is one man, but the Bible refers to Antichrist as a beast in Revelation and as a little horn in Daniel, which are symbolic for kingdoms with many men sitting successively on the throne, according to Gabriel in Daniel 7. Futurism ignores while pointing to Paul's phrase "man of sin" as proof that Antichrist is a single man, but all will agree that Paul's phrase "man of God" in 2 Timothy 3:17 is not limited to a single man. The ancients routinely referred to a kingdom either by name or by the human agent enthroned upon it.
How in the world can God revert back to the Old Covenant when it has "vanished away"? The New Covenant is with the "house of Israel and the house of Judah", but He needs to revert back to the Old to deal with Jews?
But then what do you do with Daniels and Jeremiah's prophecy of 70 weeks, the last one which has not yet been lived?
I totally understand what you are proposing but to do so requires that other Bible prophecy be ignored. For example Zach. 14:1-10,
Exekiel 38 come to mind. The Bible is full of references to a Rapture and then the 2nd Coming of Messiah Jesus.
I for one am a believer in the.........
1. Rapture,
2. then 7 years of Tribulation,
3. then Armageddon which is the 2nd Coming of Christ,
4. 1000 years of the Kingdom on earth ruled by Messiah Jesus,
5. 2nd Resurrection which is for the wicked dead 8 the Great White Throne Judgment
6.Gog and Magog,
7. then a New Earth for eternity.
For ME, after years of study, questions and arguing with the Lord, He has in the last 10 years or so completely given me peace over this and what I believe is coming fits perfectly with the Word of God with absolutely no work on my part to make it fit.
Yes, as recent as the JFK presidential election, much contention still remained in the U. S. as to whether we should elect a Roman Catholic man to the office. I believe he was one of the best presidents we ever had.
I still can't see how Paul's word in 1 Corinthians 15 can mean anything but that the second coming and the rapture are two simultaneous events on the the same day: (...at the last trump, for the trumpet shall sound and the dead shall be raised incorruptible and we shall be changed) and 1 Thess 4 (Lord shall descend from heaven with a shout with the voice of the archangel and with the trump of God, and the dead in Christ shall rise first, then we...shall be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord)
Actually, YOU were speaking about the New Jerusalem of Revelation 21:2.
That is just an erroneous understanding of events that are to come. There will be plenty going on on this Earth when the Church is removed. The stage will be set for the cataclysmic events of the Tribulation.
So, "nothing"? Hardly.
Your own ignorance is showing. I come from a denominational church and it was never taught.
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There won't be a Church on Earth after the Rapture. The Rapture signals the end of the Church Age.
There are still seven years left on the clock for Israel. It's not hard to grasp.
It's cool bro, we're here to share our views in the spirit of brotherly and sisterly love. I have to disagree with you, though, for the idea of the Restrainer being the Holy Spirit in our day that yet prevents the rise of Antichrist came from the Jesuits in response to the Protestants - that Paul told the ECF, by their own testimony, that the Restrainer was the Roman Empire that prevented the rise of it back then upon the fall of that empire.
Also, Daniel says that Messiah was cut off after the 62 weeks of vs. 26 and the 7 weeks of vs. 25, which can only mean during the 70th week. Jesuit Futurism's attempt to cut off the 70th week and send it down to the end of time is problematic for two other reasons as well: By inserting a 2,000 year gap, the prophecy is no longer a "70 weeks" block of time, but is "725,526 weeks and counting". If I told my boss that the reason why my 1 hour lunch break lasted from noon until 5:00 PM was because there was a four hour "gap" between 12:59 PM and 1:00 PM, I think we all know what would happen.
We all agree that when the Lord comes "as a thief in the night" the church will be raptured. Have you read what Peter says about what will be going on when the Lord comes as a "thief in the night?" About the heavens passing away with great noise? About the elements melting with fervent heat? About the earth and also the works therein burning up? Does it sound like Hollywood will be launching a new hit reality show afterward called "Not Keeping Up With The Christians"?