No, what's hard to grasp is the insanity that God decided to make a New Covenant with Israel and Judah but doesn't allow them to participate in it. Honestly, what obscure Bible translation are you reading?
Is The Holy Spirit Or The Church The Restrainer Of 2 Thess.?
- Thread starter Phoneman777
- Start date
Many things will occur after the Bride is taken away to her wedding, and many years will pass before the Lord does His work at renewing the Earth. Jesus Christ and His Bride will come and reign and rule the nations of the Earth for 1000 years before any of that happens.
God is not insane. His plans will unfold as laid out in scripture.
You dodged the question, so I'll ask you again, how is it that anything will be happening on this earth when the Lord comes as a thief in the night to rapture the church, in which the heavens and earth shall pass away, and melt with fervent heat, and be entirely burned up with nothing left?
Don't you agree that the Lord comes as a thief in the night to rapture the church before the Antichrist rises? How many times does the Lord come as a thief? Does He come as a thief even AFTER He comes in His Glory? Futurism, ya gotta love it.
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The Lord's return will also be sudden and unexpected, as a thief in the night. But the rapture is not the second coming. When Jesus comes again, He will be bringing the Church with Him to rule and reign with Him, who will have been with Him for at least seven years.
The rapture is not that day. We will never be taken by surprise, because we are ready and waiting, with extra oil for our lamps. We are children of the day, not the night.
So, you are saying that the Lord comes as a thief in the night to whisk away the church in the rapture but then He comes again as a thief in the night on Judgment Day years later? You mean to say that the Lord comes as a thief in the night TWICE?
Look, let's not confuse the two sides of the debate. Futurists have always argued that Jesus' coming as a "thief in the night" means Jesus will sneak in and sneak out with the church and life will go on, just as a thief sneaks in and then out with your TV and you have to go shopping for another. They do so in order to establish that the rapture and the second coming won't be simultaneous.
Historicism has always claimed that "thief in the night" means just what the Bible says: unexpected, simultaneous rapture of the church the glorious coming of Jesus which will be as just as destructive to the lost as in the days of Noah when they "knew not until the flood came and took them all away" and "the flood came and destroyed them all."
Are you saying that Jesus comes as a "thief in the night" for the church and then "visibly" again for some other reason, and then again as a "thief in the night" on Judgment day for some still further mysterious reason?
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No phoneman. Jesus comes 1 x as a thief in the night for the rapture before the tribulation. That's y we need to be looking out for HIM. It's the peeps that have not accepted Christ as Lord and savior that will be surprised........"Hey what the heck happened to all the peeps?" The 2nd coming of Jesus will be to reign with HIM for the 1000 yrs on earth, at that time Satan will be bound with chains. As I understand it after the 1000 yrs the New Heaven and Earth will be created. The old 1 will pass away. I am ready ready ready!
Hi, Chili, I would ask you to explain how life can continue on after Jesus comes as a "thief in the night" when Peter says "the day of the Lord shall come as a thief in the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth and the works therein shall be burned up." Remember, this coming as a "thief in the night" can ONLY be referring to the time when Jesus comes for His church because both Paul and Peter ADMONISH us to be prepared for it.
I never brought up the New Jerusalem....please indicate the post #...
Now we know this is a given to some, but for those who believe we will rule and reign with Him here for 1,000 years it is not exactly accurate...the ekklesia will be taken to be with Him WHEREVER He is (perhaps even on the New Earth later)
The question always is WHEN the rapturing occurs...people say many things, but the Bible says at the parousia....
Yes we must be ready but doesn't your interpretation give 2 second comings?
Both Paul and Peter admonish the church to be prepared to meet Jesus when He comes as a "thief in the night" which we all agree is the rapture of the church. Goodness, I hope that we can all see this clearly.
Therefore, how can Futurism be right in teaching that life down here continues after Jesus comes as a "thief in the night" when Peter declares that "the day of the Lord shall come as a thief in the night in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works therein shall be burned up"?
Peter continues: "Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye (the church that is yet to be raptured) to be in all holy conversation and godliness, looking for and hasting (still not raptured) unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
From the Bible, it's crystal clear that there can't possibly be any "7 year tribulation" period afterward because according to Peter there will be nothing left here when Jesus raptures us home to glory, and if Jesuit Futurism is wrong about this, then how can Jesuit Futurism hope to get right the rest of the story which includes the Tribulation, Armageddon, the Second Coming, the White Throne Judgment, the Millennium, and everything else???
Therefore, how can Futurism be right in teaching that life down here continues after Jesus comes as a "thief in the night" when Peter declares that "the day of the Lord shall come as a thief in the night in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works therein shall be burned up"?
Peter continues: "Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye (the church that is yet to be raptured) to be in all holy conversation and godliness, looking for and hasting (still not raptured) unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
From the Bible, it's crystal clear that there can't possibly be any "7 year tribulation" period afterward because according to Peter there will be nothing left here when Jesus raptures us home to glory, and if Jesuit Futurism is wrong about this, then how can Jesuit Futurism hope to get right the rest of the story which includes the Tribulation, Armageddon, the Second Coming, the White Throne Judgment, the Millennium, and everything else???
Jesus split a sentence, so a gap in the 70 weeks is acceptable...
Luke 4:21 (KJV)
And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.
Here's Jesus' rendition:
Luke 4:18-19 (KJV)
The Spirit of the Lord [is] upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
Here's what He was reading from, the bold is the verse as read according to Luke's account.
Isaiah 61:1-3 (KJV)
The Spirit of the Lord GOD [is] upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to [them that are] bound; To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn; To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified.
The Daniel prophecy spelled out:
Daniel 9:25-26 (KJV)
Know therefore and understand, [that] from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince [shall be] seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof [shall be] with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
The bold above equates to 69 weeks, THEN the prince is cut off after the 62 weeks when comes after the 7 weeks, meaning 69. It's like saying "in one year" is the same as saying "in 2 weeks and 50 weeks". If you studied Equal Letter Distance phenomenon of the scriptures you'd understand why sometime it goes about a odd way to say something. But that is another story....
Luke 4:21 (KJV)
And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.
Here's Jesus' rendition:
Luke 4:18-19 (KJV)
The Spirit of the Lord [is] upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
Here's what He was reading from, the bold is the verse as read according to Luke's account.
Isaiah 61:1-3 (KJV)
The Spirit of the Lord GOD [is] upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to [them that are] bound; To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn; To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified.
The Daniel prophecy spelled out:
Daniel 9:25-26 (KJV)
Know therefore and understand, [that] from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince [shall be] seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof [shall be] with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
The bold above equates to 69 weeks, THEN the prince is cut off after the 62 weeks when comes after the 7 weeks, meaning 69. It's like saying "in one year" is the same as saying "in 2 weeks and 50 weeks". If you studied Equal Letter Distance phenomenon of the scriptures you'd understand why sometime it goes about a odd way to say something. But that is another story....
We cannot "split a sentence" to make it say what we want. Peter is telling us that both the rapture and destruction are simultaneous when he says "For the day of the Lord shall come as a thief in the night in the which the heavens shall pass away..." Do you not understand that "in the which" means "in the day that the Lord comes as a thief in the night"?
As to the rapture and the return of Jesus, the logical order is:
- Rapture: Meet Jesus in the air
- Antichrist makes a seven-year covenant with the Jews
- Two Witnesses come down from heaven (they like John the baptist they are not part of the church), they preach for 1260 days
- The Jew rebuild the temple
- They execute two sacrifices per day for 1150 days (2300 evenings and mornings sacrifices)
- Tribulation begins with the arrival of the Two Witnesses
- Judgement of the church in heaven, crowns received
- Marriage supper of the Lamb
- The daily sacrifices are stopped (from this day 1290 days until Jesus returns, but blessed is he who make is to 1335 days)
- 30 Days later the Two Witnesses are killed by the Antichrist, probably on Passover, half way through the One Week covenant of 7 years
- they lay dead for 3.5 days while the world rejoices
- raised from the dead
- raptured to heaven
- Israel to flee to the wilderness for 1260 days
- After the tribulation, Jesus returns, the whole world sees Him
- Jesus returns on the Feast of Trumpets
- Angels sent to gather the elect from the four winds (Jesus specifically says "after the tribulation")
- Angels sent to gather all that offend
- Forty Days of judgment
- Five days of Grace (lifting the curse, healing the nations with the leaves from the Tree of Life)
- These 45 days are the 1335-1290 spoken of by Daniel, hence the reason for those who are blessed to make it this far (of those on the earth)
- Jesus sets up His 1000-year reign
- Satan is bound
- One who dies at 100 will be a child
- Satan is loosed to tempt the world (so there has to be some who were NOT "gathered" so as to have children)
- Rebels destroyed
- White Throne Judgement of all from all time
- Death and hell are thrown into the Lake of Fire
- New Heaven and New Earth
- New Jerusalem arrives
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I guess you cannot read... "I" didn't split the sentence, Jesus did! He separated the "end time" events, not me! Live with it.