Bro.tan
Inactive
Who do you think gave the Laws to Moses??
How The Devil/satan Deceiveth The Whole World
- Thread starter Bro.tan
- Start date
Who do you think gave the Laws to Moses??
Bro.tan
Inactive
That's true, but you have to understand and know, which law was, our schoolmaster which brought us to Christ.
Bro.tan
Inactive
In the scriptures its written in (Ex. 20:8-11) (v.8) Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. (v.9) Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: (v.10) But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thou thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thou maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: (v.11) For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. This is the sabbath day of the Lord God of this bible and every seventh day of the week (Saturday) is holy, that’s what hallowed means. And the Apostle Paul understood this he knew and kept Gods law including the seventh day sabbath.
Now lets take a look at; (Acts 13:13-15, 42, 44) (v.13) Now when Paul and his company loosed from Pa’-phus, they came to Per’-ga in Pam-phyl’-I-a: and John departing from them returned to Jerusalem. (v.14) But when they departed from Per’-ga, they came to An’-ti-och in Pi-sid’-I-a, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down. Paul went into the church (synagogue) on the sabbath day the seventh day not the first day (Sunday). (v.15) And after the reading of the law and the prophets the rulers of the synagogue sent unto them, saying, Ye men and brethren, if ye have any word of exhortation for the people, say on. (v.42) And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath. The Gentiles didn’t asked Paul to come preach us something different next Sunday. They wanted Paul to preach to them the same thing that he taught the Jews, the next sabbath. Even the Gentiles knew that if they were going to serve the same God that Paul and the Jews (Israelites) served that they would have to serve him on the day that God had set up. (v.42) And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God. Not the next Sunday but the next Sabbath.
Now lets take a look at; (Acts 13:13-15, 42, 44) (v.13) Now when Paul and his company loosed from Pa’-phus, they came to Per’-ga in Pam-phyl’-I-a: and John departing from them returned to Jerusalem. (v.14) But when they departed from Per’-ga, they came to An’-ti-och in Pi-sid’-I-a, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down. Paul went into the church (synagogue) on the sabbath day the seventh day not the first day (Sunday). (v.15) And after the reading of the law and the prophets the rulers of the synagogue sent unto them, saying, Ye men and brethren, if ye have any word of exhortation for the people, say on. (v.42) And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath. The Gentiles didn’t asked Paul to come preach us something different next Sunday. They wanted Paul to preach to them the same thing that he taught the Jews, the next sabbath. Even the Gentiles knew that if they were going to serve the same God that Paul and the Jews (Israelites) served that they would have to serve him on the day that God had set up. (v.42) And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God. Not the next Sunday but the next Sabbath.
And I certainly do as do most here...
Bro.tan
Inactive
Again lets go in (Acts 17:1-2) (v.2) Now when they had passed through Am-phip’-o-lis and Ap-ol-lo’-ni-a, they came to Thes-sa-lo-ni’-ca, where was a synagogue of the Jews: (v.2) And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures," Now Paul evidently was around Thes-sa-lo-ni'-ca for a few weeks and as his manner was he went into the synagogue three sabbath days. Do you understand what the word manner means? Its definition is; a characteristic or customary mode of acting: custom: fashion. It was the law. Paul went into the synagogue every sabbath, not every Sunday people, this is the apostle Paul, and it said that Paul reasoned with them out of the scriptures. I wonder why Paul didn't enlighten them with some 1 Corinthians, or maybe hit them with some Galatians, or endow them with a little 2 Thessalonians, because these books were not around when Paul was preaching the gospel. He reasoned with them out of the scriptures, which are from Genesis to Malachi. Lets continue in (Acts 18:1, 4) (v.1) After these things Paul departed from Athens, and came to Corinth; (v.4) And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks. Why is Paul continuing to go into the church on the sabbath? Because that’s when everybody that dealt with the God of this bible held their holy convocations, every sabbath (Saturday). That’s why you had the Jews (Israelites) and the Greeks (strangers) in the church on the sabbath day. Now we have read in several places that proved Paul without any doubt whatsoever kept the seventh day sabbath which is Saturday.
I as a bible student have examined the bible testimonies on the first day of the week, there are eight to be exact, and without exception they are silent as to any of the disciples observing Sunday as a holy day.
How is it possible that these accounts, written over 40 years after the crucifixion, have neglected to mention Sunday sacredness? There is no biblical support for the changing of God’s holy sabbath from the seventh day (Saturday) to the first day (Sunday).
I as a bible student have examined the bible testimonies on the first day of the week, there are eight to be exact, and without exception they are silent as to any of the disciples observing Sunday as a holy day.
How is it possible that these accounts, written over 40 years after the crucifixion, have neglected to mention Sunday sacredness? There is no biblical support for the changing of God’s holy sabbath from the seventh day (Saturday) to the first day (Sunday).
And again, gathering together in one place for our corporate worship on the 1st day of the week changes nothing since the 7th day was never commanded as the day to do that (as for Jesus "as was His custom" as for Paul "as was his manner"....but not commanded by God)...the 7th day is still the 7th day Sabbath, but going to synagogue or church on that day is not part of our covenant or the old covenant, it was a custom developed during the organization of the great synagogue in Babylon among ONLY the Jews. So your point is moot! Meaningless. Do not now go to your 4th and 5th century Roman Catholic sources because we had already been gathering for this purpose on the 1st day of the week since the Apostles directed the earliest church (for 300 to 400 years). Christ having risen on that day and the church being born on that day...according to God's will.
So what...Paul said he went to the Jews as a Jew so that he could win them to Christ..not that he was under the law..but under the law of Christ...Which is His Commandment to LOVE...which is the only way to fulfill ALL the law... The Sabbath is only fulfilled in faith working by love... Its called the simplicity of Christ. You are a false teacher just as Ellen G. white was a false prophet!
Thank God someone else agrees with me! I been saying that now for a long time my brother!
Bro.tan
Inactive
In the scriptures its written in Proverbs 15:32 He that refuseth instruction despiseth his own soul: but he that heareth reproof getteth understanding. 15:33 The fear of the LORD is the instruction of wisdom; and before honour is humility.
Bro.tan
Inactive
Now if Jesus is our master then we should follow His steps. (1 Peter 2:21) For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: And remember that Jesus is the captain of our salvation. So let’s see our captain lead by example. (Luke 4:14-16) (v.14) And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about. (v.15) And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all. (v.16) And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue (the church) on the Sabbath day, and stood up for to read.
Jesus regularly attended religious services on the Sabbath day "as His custom was". He obeyed His own command to meet (holy convocation) every Sabbath day. Apostle Paul's custom was to keep the Sabbath day. (Acts18:1, 4) (v.1) After these things Paul departed from Athens, and came to Corinth; (v.4) And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks. Other evidence shows the early Church of God observed the Sabbath (Acts 13:13-15, 42, 44; 18:1, 4, 11).
Remember that it was Christ: (1Peter:2:22) Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: Jesus did no sin. But what is sin? (1John:3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. So every time you break (transgress) one of God’s commandments you have committed sin. And one of those commandments is to: (Ex.20:8) Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. That’s why Jesus went to church on the seventh day; it is a sin to say that Sunday is the Christian Sabbath, because it is not Christ like! Just like it’s a sin to steal, kill, and commit adultery and so-forth. This is the day He would naturally have observed, because He originally made the Sabbath by resting and ordained that it be kept holy from that time forward.
Jesus regularly attended religious services on the Sabbath day "as His custom was". He obeyed His own command to meet (holy convocation) every Sabbath day. Apostle Paul's custom was to keep the Sabbath day. (Acts18:1, 4) (v.1) After these things Paul departed from Athens, and came to Corinth; (v.4) And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks. Other evidence shows the early Church of God observed the Sabbath (Acts 13:13-15, 42, 44; 18:1, 4, 11).
Remember that it was Christ: (1Peter:2:22) Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: Jesus did no sin. But what is sin? (1John:3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. So every time you break (transgress) one of God’s commandments you have committed sin. And one of those commandments is to: (Ex.20:8) Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. That’s why Jesus went to church on the seventh day; it is a sin to say that Sunday is the Christian Sabbath, because it is not Christ like! Just like it’s a sin to steal, kill, and commit adultery and so-forth. This is the day He would naturally have observed, because He originally made the Sabbath by resting and ordained that it be kept holy from that time forward.
Yea stop doing that.. and have some fear of God!
Ga 1:6 ¶ I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Ga 2:4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:
1Ti 1:7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.
Excellent! I hope you are getting understanding now! Humility is a very good thing that the Lord does not despise....
Now if Jesus is our master then we should follow His steps. (1 Peter 2:21) For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: And remember that Jesus is the captain of our salvation. So let’s see our captain lead by example.
Indeed, so how do you observe the feast of dedication?
Indeed, so how do you observe the feast of dedication?
Bro.tan
Inactive
Bro.tan
Inactive
The Catholic Press said, "Sunday is a Catholic institution, and its claims to observation can be defended only on Catholic principles ... From beginning to end of Scripture there is not a single passage that warrants the transfer of weekly public worship from the last day of the week to the first.
God speaks of the seventh day 126 times in the Old Testament and 62 times in the New. The first day of the week is mentioned only eight times in the New Testament. A Catholic priest offered $1000 to anyone who could find one Bible verse to indicate that Sunday is now holy and should be observed instead of the seventh day.
No one responded.
It is because of the foolishness of the point you made as a defense...if following all His examples and customs is essential then be consistent...my heart is not far from you it is for you, you are a bond slave and I am a son and a freed man IN CHRIST (which is the important thing...being IN HIM...be at rest, the shabbat He provided, my brother, and stop thinking your striving obtains right standing with God...it is no longer about you)...and Roman Catholicism indeed became corrupt (glad I am NOT following Jesus and not them)
As pointed out to you many times, immediately the early church (centuries before Roman Catholicism) begins to gather for corporate worship on the 1st day ("Sunday" or the say of the Sun...was not even in their frame of reference)....even the latter of Barnabas, apparently written by a Jewish Christian says they "ALSO" gather on the 1st day which is also called an 8th day..."also"....so as a Jew they probably still met on the 7th day but it was never required, especially of the gentiles...
Last edited:
Bro.tan
Inactive
According to the Bible Paul said in Romans 2: 11 For there is no respect of persons with God. After you done these things then those verses you quoted will come into affect for you.
What I'm doing is teaching you the same way Peter was trying to teach the Gentiles. Peter said in Acts 15:6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter. 7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. 8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; 9 And put no difference between us and them, This dispute is mainly talking about the Gentiles being circumcise, understand that some of those Israelites didn't want Gentiles in this word of God. But, Jesus gave Peter the keys to the kingdom, and this for a reason. Pay attention to what Peter said in 2 Peter 1 :19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. What Peter is saying here, when you start having problems in this word, always go back to the OT, that’s the foundation of this word. Always keep in mind there was no New Testament when the Apostles and Jesus was here.
I don’t know your nationality, but what you have to understand is that every word that was written in the Bible was written by an Israelite. For what purpose did the Lord choose the children of Israel? (Exodus 19: 1-6) Let's look at the 5th & 6th vs.; "Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: (6th vs.) and ye shall be unto me a Kingdom of Priest, and a holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel." The lord have not changed his ways. For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed (Malachi 3:6) If you are a Gentile or from any other nation, and you are being taught by another Gentile or nation, who have not been taught by a Hebrew Israelite, (who keeps the commandments, statues and judgments), then there’s going to be a lot of miss understanding and miss leading.
The question is How can one who is not of the lineage of Israel, become partakers of the covenant of God? Lets take a look into (Ephesians 2:11-22) let’s look at the 11th through 13th verses. "Wherefore remember, that ye being in the time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called uncircumcision by that which is called the circumcision in the flesh made by hands; (12th vs.) That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenant of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: (13th vs.) But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ."
Now, Paul said in Romans 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: 8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11 For there is no respect of persons with God. 12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; 13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. There more, the point is that there is an order in how God set up his priesthood, Jesus is the High priest, but Israel is still the priest of God to this day
So since you are a hearer of the Law why is it you do not keep it? If you fail in as much as a jot or a tittle you have failed in it all...so because you say you are a hearer of the law and a doer of the law, and are not, you shall be judged by the law. I already was judged and found wanting and found condemnable and I agree I was worthy of condemnation but Christ became the curse of the law on my behalf, and I am no longer under the curse of the law, and I, believing God (like father Abraham), trusted His provision in His Christ's finished work, and have had my sins remissed...my nationality has nothing to do with anything...you are a judiazer...my old man is dead in Christ and now I am a new man, a new creation IN CHRIST...when I trusted the gospel I was sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise and He has sealed me unto the day of redemption...nothing you say or accuse or try to yoke me with can EVER undo what God has done...I am His child, so if you have a problem with me take it up with my Dad.
Some of the things I've been thinking about lately, and some of the things you fellows have been discussing, has made me interested in more questions...
Alright, so the dispute in Acts 15.
We read that:
1Certain people came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the believers: “Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved.”
...
6The apostles and elders met to consider this question. 7After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? 11No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”
....
And when they do, as you say, look into the OT, they find:
14Simon has described to us how God first intervened to choose a people for his name from the Gentiles. 15The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written:
16“ ‘After this I will return
and rebuild David’s fallen tent.
Its ruins I will rebuild,
and I will restore it,
17that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,
even all the Gentiles who bear my name,
says the Lord, who does these things’ —
18things known from long ago.
And they conclude, in a letter to the Gentile believers:
28It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things.
So... what does it mean, Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear?
The debate, as you say, seemed to be around whether or not circumcision was a requirement for salvation. After they look into the OT, as you say they correctly should have, they noticeably leave circumcision absent from the list of requirements. Why?
Basic summary, I guess: the law of Moses commands the circumcision of the flesh. So, what does that mean for us? Do we need the obey the law of Moses regarding the circumcision of the flesh?
I've also been looking in tithing lately, and the laws surrounding that. I guess you wouldn't do those, since they were priesthood laws, which you say were nailed to the cross? Or do you tithe to the recipients of the tithes who weren't priests... non-priest Levites, orphans and widows, foreigners? If you do tithe, which of the three tithes do you observe, and do you observe the first fruit offerings as well?
What about the killing/stoning punishment laws and such? The women leaving town on their period? Shaving requirements? Food restrictions? Blended clothing? I mean, when I asked, "Do you think our salvation depends on perfectly following all the laws in Leviticus or not?" you said, "Yes, except for the laws that was nail to the cross, which was the animal sacrificial laws and the priesthood laws," so you must have figured out some way to follow all the other stuff in a modern context, yes, since salvation depends on following them perfectly?
Do we also have to follow the rabbinic literature as law like the Hebrews did, or only the Torah, and how do we know? Or would we need to write our own Rabbinical literature now to instruct us on how to legally apply those laws to follow them perfectly in a modern context?
Here's another interesting question: was Paul following the law when he was killing Christians? He does say he was blameless to the law... curious about your thoughts on that one.
Well, anyway, I'm very curious about what you practice. Hope you get back about these things.
Last edited: