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ASUK said:
I don't see the connection. That verse can be taken any way you want.
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Are you kidding me????

I am amazed at what I am reading lately!

I am trying to be nice and sweet and speak in Christian love but Dadgummed!

You are saying that God did not establish the nation of Israel as the place for His chosen people.

Come on man!
 
Barnabas said:
Propaganda.



The Bible teaches us to obey those in authority over us. The UN is the authority over Israel, and indeed, the legal source for Israel's existence in the first place. The UN has not resolved the land to Israel but still holds that Israel is an occupier in violation of international law.
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Honestly........do you really think about and look at what you say????

You said..........
"The UN has authority over Israel?????"

Where in the world have you been in the last 50 years. NO ONE DOES WHAT THE UN SAYS! The UN is over NO ONE! Yes they may adopt resolusions but the fact is no one obays them unless they want to. It is a total waste of money and time.

Then you said............
"The UN is the legal source for Israel's existance in the first place."

Holy cow, this is beginning to sound like Sunday School 101. Are you really serious??? Do you actually read the Scriptures at all my brother. I am sory that sounds so personal, BUT dadgummed it man. Do some homw work before making such outlandish statements that make you look foolish.

Genesis 12:1-3.........
"1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee: 2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great ; and thou shalt be a blessing:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed ."

Ex. 19:6...............
"you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.' These are the words you are to speak to the Israelites."

The source of Israel's existance my friend is God. What part of the Bible verses do you not understand?????
 
Major said:
Are you kidding me????

I am amazed at what I am reading lately!

I am trying to be nice and sweet and speak in Christian love but Dadgummed!

You are saying that God did not establish the nation of Israel as the place for His chosen people.

Come on man!
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So where do you get the United States out of this?
 
Someone mentioned fear. I have no fear that God won't take care of Israel. What I am concerned about is Christians failing to understand their roots or their Bible. That Israel is surrounded by enemies now was long predicted. That they would return to their land was also predicted. That end times would occur was also predicted and most Christians seem to know we are nearing that time. The US is going the way of the rest of the world. Because the government has gone out of their control thru indifference. To not speak is to speak, to not act is to act, to say it has nothing to do with us or ignore God's Will is folly.
 
Major said:
Where in the world have you been in the last 50 years. NO ONE DOES WHAT THE UN SAYS! The UN is over NO ONE! Yes they may adopt resolusions but the fact is no one obays them unless they want to. It is a total waste of money and time.
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The UN is the legal authority responsible for the creation of Israel. Whether people obey the UN or not is a different issue.

Holy cow, this is beginning to sound like Sunday School 101. Are you really serious??? Do you actually read the Scriptures at all my brother.
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I do read scripture, and I wish you'd read the scripture references in the first post. Those with faith are Abraham's children, not people of the false jewish religion.

The source of Israel's existance my friend is God. What part of the Bible verses do you not understand?????
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The church is the Israel of God, not a state formed by people of the false jewish religion.
 
Barnabas said:
The UN is the legal authority responsible for the creation of Israel. Whether people obey the UN or not is a different issue.



I do read scripture, and I wish you'd read the scripture references in the first post. Those with faith are Abraham's children, not people of the false jewish religion.



The church is the Israel of God, not a state formed by people of the false jewish religion.
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NOPE!

GOD is the one responsible for the creation of Israel!

Since you say you do read the Scriptures, please quote those that validate your position on the church replacing Israel. I would be interested to know what they are.
 
Dave Lucas said:
Jeremiah 7:5-7
Numbers 15:15,16

There are the ones talking about how non-Jews are to be treated and given land of their own to live on. Not to be mistreated nor harmed.

As for them not following the commands, this is from Matthew to Hebrews. The Levitical Order was ended. Just as the Levites had replaced the Aaronic Order. They are to no longer follow the Levitical way by order of God.

In the gospels The King clearly says they will call to him but he will know them not. Those that do not embrace the New Way, accept the restored Order Of Melchizedek are NOT his people.

They MUST change or else they will perish.

This was to both Jew and Gentile to save them some themselves.

If you think the Jews do not have to come to The King, then you are no getting what he said.
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I can not accept your opinions on these matters as you have refused to post the Scriptures you said that God promised Israel that they had to share the Promised Land.

I told you then, YOU OWNED those comments and you had to prove them. You have not done so in any way.

If you had the time to look up Jeremiah and Numbers you certainly had the time to find the verses that claim that Israel has to share the Land that God promised them.
 
ASUK said:
I don't see the connection. That verse can be taken any way you want.
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No it can not. It means exactly what it says!

What other way do YOU think that ......." I will bless you And make your name great;
And you shall be a blessing. 3 I will bless those who bless you, And I will curse him who curses you"; can be understood?

God has just told Abraham that He will make a great NATION out of his descendant's. What other interpretation can be seen here in your opinion?
 
I agree with you Major. But Islam claims descent from Esau, so I would point out that Issac and his line was the one (not Esau) that had Abraham's "blessing".
 
Major said:
GOD is the one responsible for the creation of Israel!
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It's a fact that the UN is the legal authority responsible for the creation of Israel. And, if you read your Bible, you'd know that God placed these authorities over us, and we are to obey them. I know you believe God is responsible for creating Israel, but that's only your opinion, and it's a dodge of the issue of legal authority.

Since you say you do read the Scriptures, please quote those that validate your position on the church replacing Israel. I would be interested to know what they are.
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Ephesians 2:19 says Christians are citizens of Israel. Are you a citizen of the jewish state? I'm a citizen of the true Israel, not the imposter state.
 
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Silk said:
I agree with you Major. But Islam claims descent from Esau, so I would point out that Issac and his line was the one (not Esau) that had Abraham's "blessing".
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That is correct but the thing the Muslims do not want to talk about is that Ishmael was a bastard son. He had no inheritance rights as did Isaac because Isaac was the legitimate son of promise.
 
Barnabas said:
It's a fact that the UN is the legal authority responsible for the creation of Israel. And, if you read your Bible, you'd know that God placed these authorities over us, and we are to obey them. I know you believe God is responsible for creating Israel, but that's only your opinion, and it's a dodge of the issue of legal authority.



Ephesians 2:19 says Christians are citizens of Israel. Are you a citizen of the jewish state? I'm a citizen of the true Israel, not the imposter state.
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When you say "IF I would read my Bible".....(LOL). After all the times I have had to correct your Bible understanding, I am a little perplexed that you would want to go there.

I am amazed at how often Scripture is used to make a point it never was intended to make.

Eph. 2:9 is referring to everyone having the same ability to be saved. We all have access to the Father by coming to the Son. The Jew and the Gentile both come to God through the Son or they do not come at all.

I am a member of the family of God and that is by faith in Christ which makes us members of the Church, NOT a member of the nation of Israel. "IF" you would read YOUR Bible................
 
Major said:
That is correct but the thing the Muslims do not want to talk about is that Ishmael was a bastard son. He had no inheritance rights as did Isaac because Isaac was the legitimate son of promise.
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You continue repeating the same half-truths, without acknowledging the full word of God. Is it beyond you to respond the the verse reference in the first post? What of Isaac's children? Esau was Jacob's brother, twin even, not a bastard child.

True enough, Esau lost his inheritance rights, but you would make God a liar. Both Esau and Ishmael are descendants of Abraham. Did not God give his promises to Abraham and his descendants? Then why wasn't Esau joint heir? How could Esau have lost his inheritance rights? If you tell me the story of the stew, you'll be showing me that you have no understanding of the question, which lays at the foundation of your theology.
 
And you don't know scripture, or what the "blessing" was given from patriarch Abraham to Issac. It was understood in their time. And scripture makes it clear when Sarah brought it up to Abraham. She was the lawful wife and their son was the lawful heir. Abraham was not married to Hagar. And Ishmael and his descendants rejected God. It's all there - read it or google it. You can't go back in time and break either Abraham's "will" or God's Will. The bloodline of Christ came from ISRAEL. What exactly lays at the basis of your theology? Mohammad and Esau?
 
Silk said:
And you don't know scripture, or what the "blessing" was given from patriarch Abraham to Issac. It was understood in their time. And scripture makes it clear when Sarah brought it up to Abraham. She was the lawful wife and their son was the lawful heir. Abraham was not married to Hagar. And Ishmael and his descendants rejected God. It's all there - read it or google it. You can't go back in time and break either Abraham's "will" or God's Will. The bloodline of Christ came from ISRAEL. What exactly lays at the basis of your theology? Mohammad and Esau?
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I asked about Esau, but your post says nothing about Esau. It does no one any good to point out verses to you because you freely, almost openly, ignore those verses that you can't easily put into the context of your theology, such as every verse reference in the first post.

Speaking of Ishmael, the promise was to Abraham and his seed. I don't see anything in the statement of the promise that it's to Sarah and her seed. What's that you say about Ishmael rejecting God? Who else rejects God, that is, Jesus?

The bloodline of Christ came from Israel (remember, the promise was to Abraham)? Christ's bloodline also came from David, and Mary. How do you know anyone in the modern state of Israel has a bloodline from Israel? And, what difference does it make who their bloodline is when the bloodline didn't help Ishmael or Esau? Or Judas.
 
The bloodline of the Patriarchs from Adam to Seth to the 10th generation Noah thru David down to Jesus Christ. That's what matters to all of us Christians. It was not produced thru Esau or Ishmael who's people descended to Moabites and Caananites who were worshipping false Gods. Why should Esau and Ishmael be helped when Christ saves all. Israel's remnant(s) all worshipped God the Father, when they were on track. I don't care about bloodlines in present day Israel - the blessings and promises of God continue to that Jewish nation. Not to Moabites cum Muslims. I don't disagree with scripture posted, but it is clear to me that OP scriptures were separated to prove replacement theology and I see different throughout the whole Bible (see all verses). I appreciate your not repeating verses out of context. I try not to. However you think Esau got a poor deal - he did trade his birthrite....what was he born minutes ahead of Jacob? Nothing is hidden in the Bible...the right man got the blessing. Out of it Christ was born. Ishmael nor his descendants produced Christ or the Bible would be a different book. God made his promise to Abraham's legitimate heirs. The practicing Jews in Israel still worship the same God, the Father that we do. If you can't see the Hand of God in this than I can only shrug because as I read scripture - it's all in there.
As far Judas - he had his chance and betrayed Jesus. Only God knows his status now.
 
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