Wages Of Sin?

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Mitspa said:
Your kidding me right! THE "FRENCH VERSION" of the TR...do you have any understanding of how silly that is? :rolleyes:
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Is that the best rebuttal to my post that you can muster? You're level of Biblical ignorance is really on display here to such a degee that it's embarrassing, friend. Do you not realize that other people are seeing this, or are you simply hoping that your insults, antagonism, and character attacks will win your arguments?
 
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Phoneman777 said:
Is that the best rebuttal to my post that you can muster? You're level of Biblical ignorance is really on display here to such a degee that it's embarrassing, friend. Do you not realize that other people are seeing this?
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Yea that's about as far from biblical logic as I could ever imagine one could go, To take a French translation of the Greek to argue against the Greek in a discussion of the best English translation....:rolleyes:... :LOL:
 
Phoneman777 said:
You should know that the verb "are" is not in the original Greek. It says "Where the beast and the false prophet." The translators supplied the verb and due to their having been influenced by 1100 years of the Roman Church, which dragged in from paganism the doctrine of eternal torment as well as many other pagan ideas, they supplied the verb "are", which is purely subjective. In the original, the passage says nothing about their time period in the lake of fire, and we simply can't base our arguments on a word that doesn't even appear in Scripture.
As for "day and night forever and ever", once again, due to the influence of the Roman Church, the translators applied the "undefined because endless" definition of "aionios" by translating it "forever and ever", an application which is also purely subjective. They could have just as easily applied the "undefined but not endless" definition, as other Bibles do, such as a French version of the Textus Receptus which renders it "aux siècles des siècles", or "the age of the age", which does not imply eternity in the least. :)
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I am one of those people who simply believes the Word of God. I don't try and make the Word say something that it doesn't. If it says
"they shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever." I just believe it!!! May be if the Word says , "they will be tormented day, and night, for ever and for ever and for ever, and for ever, and ever, and ever" that would really make it mean for ever to you, but for me I just need it to say for ever, and ever, to mean for ever!
 
Phoneman777 said:
My friend, I prayed for you today b/c it seems that you have only been willing to accept Jesus as your Savior, but not as your Lord. He Himself said, "Why do you call me Lord, Lord, and do not do the things I say?" Can I invite you to accept Him now as both your Lord and Savior? Just say these words: "Lord, Jesus, I need you in my life. As I step down from the throne of my heart, please take Your rightful place there as my Savior and Lord, in order that I may be saved from my sins and obey Your commandments. I thank You and I love You, in Jesus' name, I pray, Amen." May God richly bless you, my brother! :)
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I have made Jesus my Lord as well as my Saviour many years ago, and I know the import of both. Why do you jump to such erroneous and outlandish conclusions about people?

I see such arrogance in your post.
 
ASUK said:
I guess God just didn't explain it to them. It's a good thing we have Euphemism to explain it all.

Thank you for pointing out the fallacies in the OT.
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There are no fallacies. We do, however, need to realize that the level of scientific knowledge and understanding men had in those days, and the way earlier men used language to describe death, etc need to be taken into consideration.
 
Phoneman777 said:
Solomon, the wisest man who ever existed next to Jesus had an incorrect understanding about the afterlife? What he says is in perfect harmony with the N. T.
Yes, it's abhorrent to me that anyone would charge my God Who died for me as being the worst maniacal sadist who ever existed.

I believe the Bible says "God alone hath immortality", and that's why the spirit "returns to the God Who gave it" when we die, according to that same Solomon.

The wicked will most certainly not "put on immortality" in the resurrection - Paul says that only those who SEEK for immortality will get eternal life, unlike the wicked who do NOT seek for it. The wicked will receive only "indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish."

I agree that soul sleep is not in the Bible, but soul DEATH most certainly is. :)
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Only you are declaring God as something evil, above.

The wicked will be resurrected and receive their spiritual bodies so that they can stand before God without disintegrating in His glory.
 
ASUK said:
The worm dies not and the fire is not quenched.

This is referring to Annihilation. The worm will not die before it consumes it's food. The fire will not be put out before it consumes it's fuel.
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LOL! No it is not referring to annihilation, as much as you try to make it fit. The fires of hell will not consume the spirits that will be cast there---forever.
 
Euphemia said:
There are no fallacies. We do, however, need to realize that the level of scientific knowledge and understanding men had in those days, and the way earlier men used language to describe death, etc need to be taken into consideration.
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So that's your way of dismissing the Godly men in the old testament.

So basically they were stupid? I don't think so. You just have an agenda and are willing to partially discredit parts of the bible because they weren't scientific enough.
 
ASUK said:
So that's your way of dismissing the Godly men in the old testament.

So basically they were stupid? I don't think so. You just have an agenda and are willing to partially discredit parts of the bible because they weren't scientific enough.
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I never dismiss anyone who has been so highly regarded by God as to be included as a writer of scripture! The general fund of scientific knowledge was not as great as it is today. The word descriptions of death were simple. If one was dead, he looked as though he were asleep, and was described that way. Period. You are purposely misunderstanding what I am saying, and are really not willing to understand, so let's just leave it at that. Someday, I pray, you will part with your own agenda and finally get it.
 
SergioL said:
Do you people think that the damned souls will repent while in hell? I am 100% sure that they won't.
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I bet they will wished they had repented..but after the Lord has judged these souls, only He could decide such matters and its just a little annoying to here folks try to replace the Gods righteous judgment with their own corrupted judgment.
 
Mitspa said:
I bet they will wished they had repented..but after the Lord has judged these souls, only He could decide such matters and its just a little annoying to here folks try to replace the Gods righteous judgment with their own corrupted judgment.
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I think they will never repent. If they will never repent, why would God let them escape from hell?
 
SergioL said:
I think they will never repent. If they will never repent, why would God let them escape from hell?
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Well God decides who He sends to hell and how long they stay there and all things that relate to His right to judge, and it really don't matter that some folks get together and pretend they decide what God should do or that hell is just a bad visit to the dentist office..and in fact only God decides who repents and what is true repentance...not man.
 
Euphemia said:
LOL! No it is not referring to annihilation, as much as you try to make it fit. The fires of hell will not consume the spirits that will be cast there---forever.
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You do realize that Jesus was referring to the Valley of Gehenna, which was where maggots constantly fed upon the carcasses on the outskirts of the smoldering piles, right? I doubt the bodies that were thrown there were shrieking in pain.
 
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