Wages Of Sin?

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I have made Jesus my Lord as well as my Saviour many years ago, and I know the import of both. Why do you jump to such erroneous and outlandish conclusions about people?

I see such arrogance in your post.
It's not arrogance, it's truth, however unpopular it may be. The idea that "Salvation doesn't change me, just God's opinion of me" is a damnable heresy. The redeemed are to "be transformed by the renewing of our minds" and no longer conformed to this world. They are to both "will and do of His good pleasure", not continue doing the things that "crucify the Son of God afresh and put Him to an open shame." Sin is NEVER anything but a choice we make, and when tempted we must make a choice: "Will I yield to selfish gratification or to God Who has already provided a way of escape?" Jesus says He'll have to tell those who choose the former, "Depart from Me, ye that work iniquity (deliberate, known sin)."
 
I never dismiss anyone who has been so highly regarded by God as to be included as a writer of scripture! The general fund of scientific knowledge was not as great as it is today. The word descriptions of death were simple. If one was dead, he looked as though he were asleep, and was described that way. Period. You are purposely misunderstanding what I am saying, and are really not willing to understand, so let's just leave it at that. Someday, I pray, you will part with your own agenda and finally get it.
What do you think of evolution?
 
You do realize that Jesus was referring to the Valley of Gehenna, which was where maggots constantly fed upon the carcasses on the outskirts of the smoldering piles, right? I doubt the bodies that were thrown there were shrieking in pain.

Gehenna is a metaphorical reference.
 
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It's not arrogance, it's truth, however unpopular it may be. The idea that "Salvation doesn't change me, just God's opinion of me" is a damnable heresy.

No one has ever said that, least of all me, so what channel are you on? I think you are arrogant in your response to me, presuming that the Lord Jesus Christ is not my Lord and Saviour---which is off topic, to boot.

The redeemed are to "be transformed by the renewing of our minds" and no longer conformed to this world. They are to both "will and do of His good pleasure", not continue doing the things that "crucify the Son of God afresh and put Him to an open shame." Sin is NEVER anything but a choice we make, and when tempted we must make a choice: "Will I yield to selfish gratification or to God Who has already provided a way of escape?" Jesus says He'll have to tell those who choose the former, "Depart from Me, ye that work iniquity (deliberate, known sin)."

I agree. So?
 
I cannot find eternal torment in the Bible. Paul says only the righteous receive eternal life. John says "no murderer hath eternal life", and if no murderer has eternal life, how can he have eternal suffering? It's a shame that we have to argue that death is the opposite of life.

Even the OT agrees: Obadiah 16 says that the wicked "shall be as though they had not been." No amount of eschatological gymnastics can get around that plain truth. Ezekiel 28:19, speaking of Satan personified, says of him that "never shalt thou be anymore." Satan's not going to exist! Twice in Jeremiah 51, God says that the wicked "will sleep a perpetual sleep and not wake." Jesus compared sleep to death and Solomon says "the dead know not anything" in Eccl 9:6. No wicked person will have "knowledge" of torment because John says that there shall be no more death, or crying, neither shall there be anymore pain, for the former things are passed away." :)

Your point of view is very interesting. However, what about the fact that "death" is sometimes regarded as a separation from God? In other words, eternal life could mean that we will be in eternal communion with God, as opposed to those who will be eternally separated from God. Does this make sense? I have never studied this topic.

And what about verses like Revelation 20:10 and Revelation 14:10-11?
 
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It's not arrogance, it's truth, however unpopular it may be. The idea that "Salvation doesn't change me, just God's opinion of me" is a damnable heresy. The redeemed are to "be transformed by the renewing of our minds" and no longer conformed to this world. They are to both "will and do of His good pleasure", not continue doing the things that "crucify the Son of God afresh and put Him to an open shame." Sin is NEVER anything but a choice we make, and when tempted we must make a choice: "Will I yield to selfish gratification or to God Who has already provided a way of escape?" Jesus says He'll have to tell those who choose the former, "Depart from Me, ye that work iniquity (deliberate, known sin)."
Well stop sinning then and its written in clear and evident words that "the strength of sin is the law" and that the law produces sinful lust and desires in those who look to the law. Its no wonder folks are in bondage to sin.
 
No one has ever said that, least of all me, so what channel are you on? I think you are arrogant in your response to me, presuming that the Lord Jesus Christ is not my Lord and Saviour---which is off topic, to boot.



I agree. So?
I would never question whether Jesus was your Savior and Lord. I'm merely pointing out that the concept of "Lord" among Christians today seems to be a bit unclear, b/c of so much antinomianism. The Bible gives us a test to tell whether we know Jesus or not, which is: "Hereby do we know that we know Him, IF we keep His commandments; he that sayeth, I know Him, and keepeth no His commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him.' 1 John 2:3,4
 
I would never question whether Jesus was your Savior and Lord. I'm merely pointing out that the concept of "Lord" among Christians today seems to be a bit unclear, b/c of so much antinomianism. The Bible gives us a test to tell whether we know Jesus or not, which is: "Hereby do we know that we know Him, IF we keep His commandments; he that sayeth, I know Him, and keepeth no His commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him.' 1 John 2:3,4
Again John describes these Commandments as faith and love, and those who "claim" to keep the law of Moses are in bondage to sin.
 
Well stop sinning then and its written in clear and evident words that "the strength of sin is the law" and that the law produces sinful lust and desires in those who look to the law. Its no wonder folks are in bondage to sin.
The law is the strength of sin (lawbreaking) in the sense that the only way lawbreaking can exist is if a law first exists. The mere existence of a law doesn't produce any desire to break it (except if we desire to be made righteous by it), for it is in fact the protective guardrail to whatever sinful desires lie beyond it. James says lustful, fleshly desire is why lawbreaking exists, and actually directs us to look to the law (mirror), which is "holy, just, and good", to see if we need to go to Jesus for forgiveness and cleansing.
 
Again John describes these Commandments as faith and love, and those who "claim" to keep the law of Moses are in bondage to sin.
Paul speaks of the Ten Commandments by saying "I'd not known lust except for Thou shalt not covet." James speaks of the Ten Commandments by saying If thou commit no adultery, yet thou kill, thou art become (yes, in 2014) a transgressor of the law." If you have a problem with the Ten Commandments, I suggest you take that up with Paul and James, both of whom expand the idea of obedience to include much more than faith and love.
 
Paul speaks of the Ten Commandments by saying "I'd not known lust except for Thou shalt not covet." James speaks of the Ten Commandments by saying If thou commit no adultery, yet thou kill, thou art become (yes, in 2014) a transgressor of the law." If you have a problem with the Ten Commandments, I suggest you take that up with Paul and James, both of whom expand the idea of obedience to include much more than faith and love.
Yes and then he says that the commandment produced all manner of evil desires and "the strength of sin is the law" Have you read the bible? "the law is not of faith"

And James promote a "living" faith according to the "law of faith" and uses RAHAB the HARLOT as the example of that faith! Think about it!
 
The law is the strength of sin (lawbreaking) in the sense that the only way lawbreaking can exist is if a law first exists. The mere existence of a law doesn't produce any desire to break it (except if we desire to be made righteous by it), for it is in fact the protective guardrail to whatever sinful desires lie beyond it. James says lustful, fleshly desire is why lawbreaking exists, and actually directs us to look to the law (mirror), which is "holy, just, and good", to see if we need to go to Jesus for forgiveness and cleansing.
Wrong, one cannot be under law and under grace at the same time...that's spiritual adultery! And God hates such double mindedness.
 
No where in scripture will you find Jesus ever using a persons name in any parable. This was not a parable but an actual account of two people, who lived and died and the consequences of their lives.

Luk 16:20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
Luk 16:21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
Luk 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Luk 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

I don't see any inhalation here except torment by which the rich man made bad choices in his life, and because of these bad choices he was being tormented by his own conscience knowing he should have done what was right.
The weight of evidence demonstrates that this cannot be a literal passage: It's found right among many passages that are more symbolic than literal; it begins "there was a certain rich man" which is exactly or similarly like other parables; "Abraham's bosom" is the object of much speculation as to the literal meaning of this symbolic expression; Abraham's literal bosom cannot possibly be large enough to receive and retain all those that have died in the past; Jesus did not choose the "fiery, blazing, burning" Greek word "Gehenna", but chose "Hades", which is the place of the dead or grave, which proves that the flames that torment the Rich Man are symbolic (if you can find me a graveyard that is ablaze with fire, I'll concede you this point); it depicts both men as in possession of literal bodies before the time at which the dead receive them, which is in the resurrection; it is literally impossible for a human torch to carry on a logical conversation with anyone; it is literally impossible for one drop of water to have any soothing effect for a human torch; the lost will not be able to communicate with the saved in the hereafter; Solomon, the wisest man who ever lived, says that those who go down to the grave do not possess the ability to work or plan, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, nor emotions, nor a memory, but that they "know not anything". With so much symbolism going on, can we really argue that this is a literal passage?
 
Yes and then he says that the commandment produced all manner of evil desires and "the strength of sin is the law" Have you read the bible? "the law is not of faith"

And James promote a "living" faith according to the "law of faith" and uses RAHAB the HARLOT as the example of that faith! Think about it!
Bro, you just leveled up again. It says that SIN produced the evil desires, not the commandment. Please re-read Romans 7:8.
 
Wrong, one cannot be under law and under grace at the same time...that's spiritual adultery! And God hates such double mindedness.
Are we under the condemnation of the law, no, but under the obligation of the law? Yes. Anyone who's ever come under the condemnation of the law for speeding and received a warning has never thought that this grace is now a license to drive as fast as he wants from then on. Neither is death row inmate who is pardoned at the 11th hour free to go out and buy a gun and go on a murderous rampage. Liberty is not license, and grace is more than pardon, it's power to obey.
 
The weight of evidence demonstrates that this cannot be a literal passage: It's found right among many passages that are more symbolic than literal; it begins "there was a certain rich man" which is exactly or similarly like other parables; "Abraham's bosom" is the object of much speculation as to the literal meaning of this symbolic expression; Abraham's literal bosom cannot possibly be large enough to receive and retain all those that have died in the past; Jesus did not choose the "fiery, blazing, burning" Greek word "Gehenna", but chose "Hades", which is the place of the dead or grave, which proves that the flames that torment the Rich Man are symbolic (if you can find me a graveyard that is ablaze with fire, I'll concede you this point); it depicts both men as in possession of literal bodies before the time at which the dead receive them, which is in the resurrection; it is literally impossible for a human torch to carry on a logical conversation with anyone; it is literally impossible for one drop of water to have any soothing effect for a human torch; the lost will not be able to communicate with the saved in the hereafter; Solomon, the wisest man who ever lived, says that those who go down to the grave do not possess the ability to work or plan, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, nor emotions, nor a memory, but that they "know not anything". With so much symbolism going on, can we really argue that this is a literal passage?
In the grave there is no remembrance so it can not be the grave in which Jesus was talking about. Jesus was speaking directly to the Pharisees at this time not the large crowds when he was speaking about Lazarus. He always spoke to the Pharisees directly and held nothing back since they were suppose to already have known these things.
Abrahams bosom was a place that held the old testament saints until Jesus would come and lead them captive back to his Fathers Kingdom after his resurrection. Jesus had fellowship with Moses who died long before Jesus came to earth, on the mount of transfiguration. Did John in revelations talk to anyone who was still alive in the flesh? Who are we having fellowship with in our daily lives. Did not Jesus die? Have we not also died on the cross with Christ yet we have fellowship with others dead and alive?
 
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The law is the strength of sin (lawbreaking) in the sense that the only way lawbreaking can exist is if a law first exists. The mere existence of a law doesn't produce any desire to break it (except if we desire to be made righteous by it), for it is in fact the protective guardrail to whatever sinful desires lie beyond it. James says lustful, fleshly desire is why lawbreaking exists, and actually directs us to look to the law (mirror), which is "holy, just, and good", to see if we need to go to Jesus for forgiveness and cleansing.

You seem to have a lot of truth, but if you want someone to believe a lie you first have to give them a lot of truth and then mix in a little lie, and then they will follow you anywhere.

Rom 7:7 What then shall we say? That the law is sin? By no means! Yet if it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin. For I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, "You shall not covet."
Rom 7:8 But sin, seizing an opportunity through the commandment, produced in me all kinds of covetousness. For apart from the law, sin lies dead.
Rom 7:9 I was once alive apart from the law, but when the commandment came, sin came alive and I died.

The law did its work by exposing sin in man, by producing all kinds of covetousness. The law does not protect anything, it exposes sin for what it is. Paul said he was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came sin revived and he died.
The word, "revived" means "to come back to life. To rise from the dead" Sin lies dormant within people and they don't even know they have it, until they hear the Word of God and then it springs back to life. The law does not exist to the true believer because he has died to the law through the body of Christ. The law only has dominion over those who are still alive.
 
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