So why was you bragging about your law-keeping, if you are a "law-breaker"? That's boasting in hypocrisy, or as the scriptures describe "speaking lies in hypocrisy"Sorry, but you're wrong. The only way it is possible for ANYONE to obey the Ten Commandments is if Jesus is on the throne of our heart living out His obedient life through us, because "the carnal mind is enmity with God; it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be." I'm just an "unprofitable servant", incapable of earning any righteousness.
Wages Of Sin?
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I cannot find eternal torment in the Bible. Paul says only the righteous receive eternal life. John says "no murderer hath eternal life", and if no murderer has eternal life, how can he have eternal suffering? It's a shame that we have to argue that death is the opposite of life.
Even the OT agrees: Obadiah 16 says that the wicked "shall be as though they had not been." No amount of eschatological gymnastics can get around that plain truth. Ezekiel 28:19, speaking of Satan personified, says of him that "never shalt thou be anymore." Satan's not going to exist! Twice in Jeremiah 51, God says that the wicked "will sleep a perpetual sleep and not wake." Jesus compared sleep to death and Solomon says "the dead know not anything" in Eccl 9:6. No wicked person will have "knowledge" of torment because John says that there shall be no more death, or crying, neither shall there be anymore pain, for the former things are passed away."
I cannot find eternal torment in the Bible. Paul says only the righteous receive eternal life. John says "no murderer hath eternal life", and if no murderer has eternal life, how can he have eternal suffering? It's a shame that we have to argue that death is the opposite of life.
Even the OT agrees: Obadiah 16 says that the wicked "shall be as though they had not been." No amount of eschatological gymnastics can get around that plain truth. Ezekiel 28:19, speaking of Satan personified, says of him that "never shalt thou be anymore." Satan's not going to exist! Twice in Jeremiah 51, God says that the wicked "will sleep a perpetual sleep and not wake." Jesus compared sleep to death and Solomon says "the dead know not anything" in Eccl 9:6. No wicked person will have "knowledge" of torment because John says that there shall be no more death, or crying, neither shall there be anymore pain, for the former things are passed away."
I am sorry that the concept of eternal punishment is so abhorrent and perhaps fearful to you that you must deny it, but God teaches us plainly about it. It is part of the GOSPEL MESSAGE! If you cut it out, you distort the gospel!
Everyone has an eternal or immortal spirit. The dead in Christ arise with new bodies and so do those who are dead outside of Christ! They will arise with new bodies that can withstand the glory of God during their judgment!
Where the bible says, "eternal life" it is referring to the life we have in the Kingdom. No spirit can die, and so the spirits of people who have rejected salvation are unrighteous and go where the unrighteous go---forever, not to be annihilated and not to ever be let loose, either.
The Old Testament writers didn't have the understanding we do, about body, soul and spirit, and what exactly happens after death. There is no such thing as soul sleep---get that straight, and the OT understanding of "the dead know not anything" is only a reference to the physical deadness of the body. No one's brain works, does it?
Where John says there will be no more weeping or death, he is referring to the Kingdom and the righteous!
My friend, I prayed for you today b/c it seems that you have only been willing to accept Jesus as your Savior, but not as your Lord. He Himself said, "Why do you call me Lord, Lord, and do not do the things I say?" Can I invite you to accept Him now as both your Lord and Savior? Just say these words: "Lord, Jesus, I need you in my life. As I step down from the throne of my heart, please take Your rightful place there as my Savior and Lord, in order that I may be saved from my sins and obey Your commandments. I thank You and I love You, in Jesus' name, I pray, Amen." May God richly bless you, my brother!
I guess God just didn't explain it to them. It's a good thing we have Euphemism to explain it all.
Thank you for pointing out the fallacies in the OT.
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Solomon, the wisest man who ever existed next to Jesus had an incorrect understanding about the afterlife? What he says is in perfect harmony with the N. T.
Yes, it's abhorrent to me that anyone would charge my God Who died for me as being the worst maniacal sadist who ever existed.
I believe the Bible says "God alone hath immortality", and that's why the spirit "returns to the God Who gave it" when we die, according to that same Solomon.
The wicked will most certainly not "put on immortality" in the resurrection - Paul says that only those who SEEK for immortality will get eternal life, unlike the wicked who do NOT seek for it. The wicked will receive only "indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish."
I agree that soul sleep is not in the Bible, but soul DEATH most certainly is.
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I cannot find eternal torment in the Bible. Paul says only the righteous receive eternal life. John says "no murderer hath eternal life", and if no murderer has eternal life, how can he have eternal suffering? It's a shame that we have to argue that death is the opposite of life.
Even the OT agrees: Obadiah 16 says that the wicked "shall be as though they had not been." No amount of eschatological gymnastics can get around that plain truth. Ezekiel 28:19, speaking of Satan personified, says of him that "never shalt thou be anymore." Satan's not going to exist! Twice in Jeremiah 51, God says that the wicked "will sleep a perpetual sleep and not wake." Jesus compared sleep to death and Solomon says "the dead know not anything" in Eccl 9:6. No wicked person will have "knowledge" of torment because John says that there shall be no more death, or crying, neither shall there be anymore pain, for the former things are passed away."
The beast and the false prophet were cast into lake of fire at the beginning of the millennium.
Rev 19:20And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
After 1000 years the devil is cast into the same lake of fire where the beast and the false prophet are, yet the beast and the false prophet are not annihilated, and they have been there for 1000 years!!! Why? Because they will be tormented day, and night for ever, and ever along with the devil!!!
Rev 20:10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Jud 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
The residents of Sodom and Gomorrha are still suffering the vengeance of eternal fire!!!!
The word, "suffering" refers to a constant suffering, something that is not released from.
The complete opposite meaning is "to be released from or delivered from."
You are not up on your understanding of Old Testament prophets, on what they did and did not know. Their prophecies were not written for them, but for us the Church.
1Pe 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
1Pe 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
1Pe 1:12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.
What are you talking about? I boast in the Lord ..and need no man approve me or for any man to hear how self-righteous I am.. I am very pleasing to the Father ....My friend, I prayed for you today b/c it seems that you have only been willing to accept Jesus as your Savior, but not as your Lord. He Himself said, "Why do you call me Lord, Lord, and do not do the things I say?" Can I invite you to accept Him now as both your Lord and Savior? Just say these words: "Lord, Jesus, I need you in my life. As I step down from the throne of my heart, please take Your rightful place there as my Savior and Lord, in order that I may be saved from my sins and obey Your commandments. I thank You and I love You, in Jesus' name, I pray, Amen." May God richly bless you, my brother!
Amen, bro! John says that "we know that we receive the things of God b/c we keep His commandments AND do those things which are pleasing in His sight.What are you talking about? I boast in the Lord ..and need no man approve me or for any man to hear how self-righteous I am.. I am very pleasing to the Father ....
No explanation needed here. Anyone with the Spirit of God dwelling in them can understand these passages. Even a unbeliever should be able to understand this.
Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
Isa 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.
Mar 9:43 And if your hand offends you, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed than to have two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched
Mar 9:44 where their worm dies not, and the fire is not quenched.
Mar 9:45 And if your foot offends you, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life lame than to have two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched
Mar 9:46 where their worm dies not, and the fire is not quenched.
Mar 9:47 And if your eye offends you, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes to be cast into hell fire
Mar 9:48 where their worm dies not, and the fire is not quenched.
Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
Isa 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.
Mar 9:43 And if your hand offends you, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed than to have two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched
Mar 9:44 where their worm dies not, and the fire is not quenched.
Mar 9:45 And if your foot offends you, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life lame than to have two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched
Mar 9:46 where their worm dies not, and the fire is not quenched.
Mar 9:47 And if your eye offends you, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes to be cast into hell fire
Mar 9:48 where their worm dies not, and the fire is not quenched.
Right as John wrote...this is His commandments (1) to believe and (2) to love as He commanded us to love...this is clearly NOT the law of Moses! or the Ten Commandments although "love" fulfills ALL the law.
As Paul taught over and over..."nothing profits but faith working by love"
Lol you seem to add to the Word of God as you like....
Words don't have meaning..and its all a metaphor ...and hell is just a bad visit...You are sadly mistaken in your assumption. The "worm" is referring to the man's soul which never dies.
Job 25:6 How much less man, that is a worm? and the son of man, which is a worm?
Psa 22:6 But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.
Psa 22:7 All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying,
Isa 41:13 For I the LORD thy God will hold thy right hand, saying unto thee, Fear not; I will help thee.
Isa 41:14 Fear not, thou worm Jacob, and ye men of Israel; I will help thee, saith the LORD, and thy redeemer, the Holy One of Israel.
Isa 66:24And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.
Here read up and understand.
http://www.rethinkinghell.com/2012/11/the-fire-is-not-quenched-annihilation-and-mark-948-part-2/
http://www.rethinkinghell.com/2012/11/the-fire-is-not-quenched-annihilation-and-mark-948-part-2/
Lol you seem to add to the Word of God as you like....
No you just don't understand the word.
You should know that the verb "are" is not in the original Greek. It says "Where the beast and the false prophet." The translators supplied the verb and due to their having been influenced by 1100 years of the Roman Church, which dragged in from paganism the doctrine of eternal torment as well as many other pagan ideas, they supplied the verb "are", which is purely subjective. In the original, the passage says nothing about their time period in the lake of fire, and we simply can't base our arguments on a word that doesn't even appear in Scripture.
As for "day and night forever and ever", once again, due to the influence of the Roman Church, the translators applied the "undefined because endless" definition of "aionios" by translating it "forever and ever", an application which is also purely subjective. They could have just as easily applied the "undefined but not endless" definition, as other Bibles do, such as a French version of the Textus Receptus which renders it "aux siècles des siècles", or "the age of the age", which does not imply eternity in the least.
I believe I do..and I believe you have added a bunch of nonsense to it...
Your kidding me right! THE "FRENCH VERSION" of the TR...do you have any understanding of how silly that is?You should know that the verb "are" is not in the original Greek. It says "Where the beast and the false prophet." The translators supplied the verb and due to their having been influenced by 1100 years of the Roman Church, which dragged in from paganism the doctrine of eternal torment as well as many other pagan ideas, they supplied the verb "are", which is purely subjective. In the original, the passage says nothing about their time period in the lake of fire, and we simply can't base our arguments on a word that doesn't even appear in Scripture.
As for "day and night forever and ever", once again, due to the influence of the Roman Church, the translators applied the "undefined because endless" definition of "aionios" by translating it "forever and ever", an application which is also purely subjective. They could have just as easily applied the "undefined but not endless" definition, as other Bibles do, such as a French version of the Textus Receptus which renders it "aux siècles des siècles", or "the age of the age", which does not imply eternity in the least.
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