Wages Of Sin?

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CCW95A said:
If you are referring to Jesus teaching large numbers of people, he spoke to them in parables. When he was speaking about Lazarus he was speaking directly to the Pharisees. In this instance Jesus was not using parables, but speaking directly to them so they for sure would know exactly what he was saying to them.

Luk 16:14 And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.
Luk 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.
Luk 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
Luk 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.
Luk 16:18 Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.
(none of these are parables)
Luk 16:19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
Luk 16:20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
Luk 16:21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
Luk 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
Luk 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
Luk 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
Luk 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
Luk 16:27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
Luk 16:28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
Luk 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
Luk 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
Luk 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
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33 And with many such parables He spoke the word to them as they were able to hear it.
34 But without a parable He did not speak to them. And when they were alone, He explained all things to His disciples.
(Mar 4:33-34 NKJ)
 
Phoneman777 said:
Ok, let me see if you make sense: My penalty is eternal torment. Jesus took my penalty upon Himself, yet He was not eternally tormented. Yeah, sounds legit.
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That was already explained clearly to you. It is not what happened after the cross that stands in our stead regarding our penalty for sin. It is what was shed---Jesus' innocent, perfect BLOOD---as the Lamb of God. THAT is the ATONEMENT! It is the shed blood that cleanses us from all our sin, past, present and future---forever.

It is all about the blood. Always has been, and always will be. You are overlooking it.
 
Abdicate said:
TheWord.Net has the same stuff for free...it's what I use.
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cool thanks guys!
Wow that's an excellent free-bee not got the time this A.M. to check it all out but I see a mention of T.A. Sparks and only the most in depth of bible students know his writtings...this is a real blessing..thanks brother!
 
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porcupine73 said:
Hi, I was trying to find this reference, I'm looking at 'Strong’s Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries
Dictionaries of Hebrew and Greek Words taken from Strong's Exhaustive Concordance by James Strong, S.T.D., LL.D., 1890." Is that the right reference?
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A
Mitspa said:
No the bible calls that boasting in ones own self-righteous works, which is condemned as an act of the flesh.
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Friend, it is not boasting to speak of how the Lord delivered us through past trials. Paul and David did so often.
 
Do you really think God is impressed with your "law-keeping" and your self-righteousness? Do you really think He would respond to you based upon your goodness, when He has made so evident that He rejects these things in such absolute terms?

Ro 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13 Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15 Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17 And the way of peace have they not known:
18 There is no fear of God before their eyes.
19 ¶ Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
 
Butch5 said:
33 And with many such parables He spoke the word to them as they were able to hear it.
34 But without a parable He did not speak to them. And when they were alone, He explained all things to His disciples.
(Mar 4:33-34 NKJ)
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Them who?
 
Butch5 said:
33 And with many such parables He spoke the word to them as they were able to hear it.
34 But without a parable He did not speak to them. And when they were alone, He explained all things to His disciples.
(Mar 4:33-34 NKJ)
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porcupine73 said:
Hi, I was trying to find this reference, I'm looking at 'Strong’s Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries
Dictionaries of Hebrew and Greek Words taken from Strong's Exhaustive Concordance by James Strong, S.T.D., LL.D., 1890." Is that the right reference?
Click to expand...
It's in my Strong's Expanded Exhaustive Concordance Of The Bible - Red Letter Edition, 2001 Thomas Nelson. It contains Vine's Complete Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek Dictionary of Old Testament and New Testament Words.

Entry # 166 "Aionios": perpetual, eternal, everlasting, THE WORLD BEGAN, SINCE THE WORLD BEGAN." Aionios describes "duration", either undefined, BUT NOT ENDLESS...or undefined because endless."

The traditionalist view demands that we ignore what scholars admit, that Aionios was used in the Bible several times to refer to a periods of time that is not eternal. Proponents stubbornly hold to Strong and other commentators' purely subjective application of "undefined because endless" to aionios regarding the sufferings of the wicked in Revelation rather than simply accept the plain facts of etymology: That the word is used in connection with BOTH the temporal and eternal. However, when we do accdpt this, and compare Scripture with Scripture, a completely different picture emerges, hence Annihilationism.

 
Abdicate said:
You need to open your eyes, otherwise you're condoning a contradiction.

Hebrews 9:27 (KJV)
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
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My eyes are open. There's nothing in Scripture that speaks of spiritual death that pertains to man.

There's no contradiction, it's just physical death.
 
Phoneman777 said:
It's in my Strong's Expanded Exhaustive Concordance Of The Bible - Red Letter Edition, 2001 Thomas Nelson. It contains Vine's Complete Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek Dictionary of Old Testament and New Testament Words.

Entry # 166 "Aionios": perpetual, eternal, everlasting, THE WORLD BEGAN, SINCE THE WORLD BEGAN." Aionios describes "duration", either undefined, BUT NOT ENDLESS...or undefined because endless."

The traditionalist view demands that we ignore what scholars admit, that Aionios was used in the Bible several times to refer to a periods of time that is not eternal. Proponents stubbornly hold to Strong and other commentators' purely subjective application of "undefined because endless" to aionios regarding the sufferings of the wicked in Revelation rather than simply accept the plain facts of etymology: That the word is used in connection with BOTH the temporal and eternal. However, when we do accdpt this, and compare Scripture with Scripture, a completely different picture emerges, hence Annihilationism.

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I agree with what you've said here. No matter what the dictionaries say "aionios" cannot defined as eternal. I define it as an unspecified period of time. An unspecified period of time can be eternal but it could also be 10 minutes. So, I wouldn't translate "aionios" as eternal anywhere.
 
Phoneman777 said:
It's in my Strong's Expanded Exhaustive Concordance Of The Bible - Red Letter Edition, 2001 Thomas Nelson. It contains Vine's Complete Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek Dictionary of Old Testament and New Testament Words.

Entry # 166 "Aionios": perpetual, eternal, everlasting, THE WORLD BEGAN, SINCE THE WORLD BEGAN." Aionios describes "duration", either undefined, BUT NOT ENDLESS...or undefined because endless."
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Thank you. I'm just curious, what does it say for entry #165 (aiōn)?
 
porcupine73 said:
Thank you. I'm just curious, what does it say for entry #165 (aiōn)?
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G165 αἰών aion (ai-own') n.
1. (properly) an age
2. (by extension) perpetuity (also past)
3. (by implication) the world
4. (specially, Jewish) a Messianic period (present or future)
[from an obsolete primary noun apparently meaning "continued duration"]
KJV: age, course, eternal, (for) ever(-more), (n-)ever, (beginning of the , while the) world (began, without end)
Compare: G5550, G2540
See also: G104

G5550 χρόνος chronos (khron'-os) n.
1. a space of time (in general) or interval
2. (by extension) an individual opportunity
3. (by implication) delay
{properly distinguished from G2540, which designates a fixed or special occasion; and from G165, which denotes a particular period}
[of uncertain derivation]
KJV: + years old, season, space, (X often-)time(-s), (a) while
Compare: G2540, G165

G2540 καιρός kairos (kai-ros') n.
1. a set or proper time or season
2. an occasion
[of uncertain affinity]
KJV: X always, opportunity, (convenient, due) season, (due, short, while) time, a while
Compare: G5550, G165

G104 ἀεί aei (ah-eye') adv.
1. "ever"
2. (by qualification) regularly
3. (by implication) earnestly
[from an obsolete primary noun apparently meaning "continued duration"]
KJV: always, ever


here's Thayer:

- Original: αἰών
- Transliteration: Aion
- Phonetic: ahee-ohn'
- Definition:
1. for ever, an unbroken age, perpetuity of time, eternity
2. the worlds, universe
3. period of time, age
- Origin: from the same as G104
- TDNT entry: 04:17,3
- Part(s) of speech: Noun Masculine
 
Butch5 said:
The people. Jesus explained the parables to His disciples. To the people, including the Pharisees and Sadducees He spoke in parables
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Luk 16:14 And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.
Luk 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.
Luk 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
Luk 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.
Luk 16:18 Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.
(none of these are parables)
Jesus then continues speaking to the pharisees in verse 19 about an actual account that happened between a rich and a beggar.

Only to large numbers of people did Jesus speak in parables.
Matt 13:34
Jesus spoke all these things in parables to the crowds; he did not speak to them without a parable.
 
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Mitspa said:
No! you boasted in your own deliverance and self-righteousness
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Sorry, but you're wrong. The only way it is possible for ANYONE to obey the Ten Commandments is if Jesus is on the throne of our heart living out His obedient life through us, because "the carnal mind is enmity with God; it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be." I'm just an "unprofitable servant", incapable of earning any righteousness. ;)
 
Phoneman777 said:
Sorry, but you're wrong. The only way it is possible for ANYONE to obey the Ten Commandments is if Jesus is on the throne of our heart living out His obedient life through us, because "the carnal mind is enmity with God; it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be." I'm just an "unprofitable servant", incapable of earning any righteousness. ;)
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No one can obey the Ten Commandments. No one has except for one perfect man named Yeshua, and no one will. We are all guilty of breaking them until we take on the Saviour's ransom, paid with His blood. The Law was not meant to be kept. It was meant to reveal what sin is.
 
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