Wages Of Sin?

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by Phoneman777, Jun 13, 2014.

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  1. If we analyze Paul's statement, we see that the subject is "SIN' and the predicate is "PRODUCED IN ME...". Another way of stating the exact same thought is "But sin produced all kinds of covetousness in me, seizing occasion through the commandment." It is SIN that active in this statement, both producing and seizing.
  2. You are completely missing the point, if there is no memory in the grave, then how could these two people be in their condition of seeing what was going on? To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. Have you ever notice the personality of someone whose spirit has left their body? Not much fellowship there.
    I guess you missed the part where Jesus turned his attention from the crowds to the Pharisees.

    Luk 16:14 And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him.
    Luk 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.
    Luk 16:16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
    Luk 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.
    Luk 16:18 Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.
    Luk 16:19 There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
    Luk 16:20 And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
    Luk 16:21 And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
    Luk 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
    Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
    Luk 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
    Luk 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
    Luk 16:26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
    Luk 16:27 Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
    Luk 16:28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
    Luk 16:29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
    Luk 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
    Luk 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

    All of these passages is Jesus speaking directly to the Pharisees.
  3. #403 Phoneman777, Jun 18, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2014
    Great question! How can these two guys be remembering stuff if there is no memory in the grave? Answer: BECAUSE IT AIN'T A REAL STORY! :) BTW, you misquoted Paul. Paul begins 2 Cor 5 with a contrast between his mortal body and the resurrection body that he expected to be raised with after he was without a body, "naked" while dead in the grave. He then said that He wanted to be absent from the body (mortal body) AND present with the Lord (in his resurrection body), his point being that he wanted to skip right on past the part about being without a body in the grave. He didn't say that "to be absent from the body IS TO BE present with the Lord" as you said. Paul knew that he would not receive his immortal, resurrection body until "a moment, in the twinkling of an eye at the last TRUMP" at which time he says "the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the TRUMP of God".
  4. What is the cause of covetousness? Sin. What causes its effect to come forth? the Law.

    I would not have known sin. For I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, "You shall not covet."
  5. Well, I guess Jesus lied, and he just wasted his words for no reason. You don't seem to be able to grasp the simplest of spiritual things, even when it is right in front of you.
  6. Law does not cause sinful acts to be performed. The law merely reveals what sin is, as the above verse states. Lustful desire is what brings forth sinful acts, which "when it is finished, brings forth death." We must not confuse the law's power to define what sin is with the true cause of sinful acts, which is the lustful desires of men.
  7. Yes, you certainly were questioning!

    Jesus as Saviour and Lord is clear to me, and when I teach new believers, I emphasize Jesus as both. Please stop jumping to conclusions about people.

    The commandments of Christ are written on our hearts.
  8. Job was speaking out of a sense of hopelessness. Put it in perspective. So, what are you trying to teach, here?

    Job 17:13-16
    If I look for the grave as my home
    and make my bed in the darkness,
    14 if I say to the pit, ‘You are my father,’
    and to the worm, ‘You are my mother and sister,’
    15 then where is my hope?
    Can you see any hope left in me?
    16 Will hope go down with me to the gates of the grave?
    Will my hope rest with me in the dust?”
  9. Why would you say He lied? The reason why he did not have to interpret this parable is b/c the meaning of it was so plain to all that were there! They knew who the Rich Man, the "Son of Abraham" in the parable represented - the Jewish nation. They knew that Lazarus represented the Gentile dogs, like the Gentile woman who came to Jesus saying, "Truth Lord, yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their master's table." They knew that the sumptuous table represented their privileged position among the nations, for it was they who received the covenants, the promises, the blessings, and the lively oracles. The knew that the crumbs represented the scarcity of the same among the Gentiles. They understood His warning that the tables would be turned if they continued in unbelief, and that the "kingdom of God shall be taken from them" and given to others who would receive the Comforter, the Holy Spirit. Paul said that because of their unbelief, "wrath has come upon them to the uttermost" and one atrocity after another has marked the existence of the Jewish nation. When they called for Jesus' crucifixion, crying out, "His blood be upon us and our children forever" they were indeed turning the tables on themselves. Even now, they are tormented and hated by most everyone on the earth, even their so called ally, the current U.S. administration. Matthew says that "when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard His parables, they perceived that He spoke of THEM."
  10. Then you don't believe scripture that says, "sin revived ans I died" What cause the sin to revive? the law!

    Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
    Euphemia likes this.
  11. Job is saying the same thing he says in chap 14 - that the dead are incapable or conscious thought and are unaware of earthly events after they are gone, like the success or failures of their children, UNLIKE traditionalists claims that Aunt Eleanor and Uncle Fred are up in heaven looking down and smiling.
  12. Now you are telling me it was not a parable. You are right it wasn't, it was a true event, that is why he did not have to explain it to them.
  13. #413 Phoneman777, Jun 18, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2014
    Yes, the law "revived" sin in Paul's life, in that it REVEALED his guilt and he "died", or came under conviction that he was condemned.
  14. Yes, the brains do not think any more, but the soul (mind) and the spirit of each person who has died is alive---whether in heaven with Jesus or in Hades awaiting judgment.
  15. How is the world do you conclude that? I gave you the interpretation of what I, as do many others, claim is a parable! :)
  16. Phoneman---you don't really understand how God made us in three parts, and how body, soul and spirit integrate.
  17. Two things are clear: One, you are trusting in Jesus alone for salvation, and I am doing the same. So, when we meet in heaven, I promise not to say "I told you so". :)
  18. Doesn't say Three parts in Genesis, it says two parts produces a whole.
  19. I will, though.
  20. God's word tells us throughout all about how we are created. He is three and so are we---in His image, and all that.

    I trust how Holy Spirit infused Paul with the truth about us:

    1 Thessalonians 5:23 (NLT)
    Now may the God of peace make you holy in every way, and may your whole spirit and soul and body be kept blameless until our Lord Jesus Christ comes again.
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