Butch5, Explain this one to me...
John_11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
Predestination a biblical perspective
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Butch5, Explain this one to me...
John_11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
OK, I see the work needed done from a new babe in Christ to a fully mature Son of God walking in the power and responsibility of such power and anointing.
Whom much is given, much is required.
Paul even said.........
1Co 3:1 kjva And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
So someone new in Chist would still be carnal and immature in many things.
So they grow, mature and end up in the "Kingdom"
So how are you defining "Kingdom" It's a Greek Female noun and not a place but the right to rule over something.
Are you defining it as in the English Word Kingdom like Disney Land Kingdom in Flordia, or as a right to have position of authority in the World to come?
Also, is the price paid for "Eternal Life" if they are carnal and a baby in Christ though they have lots of mind renewal "Salvation" left to work out?
Keep in mind Salvation just means protected, healed, and Paul said pray for those who don't have this faith yet as God is faithful to deliver us from wicked and mean men.
A lot of times we can be going back and forth agreeing on the same things but using terms different and assuming what terms mean.
I did not say anything about giving a engagement ring at a marriage ceremony!
Engagement rings are given before the ceremony, not during! Go back and read every thing I said.
It certainly does matter when it happened. We who came to faith after Pentecost are the only ones given the Holy Spirit to indwell us. This had never happened before, and it will not happen after the church is gone. Paul called this the "mystery" or "secret" revealed to him, "Christ in us". If you mix contexts you'll reach erroneous conclusions.
Mat 6:24. "No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.
Note that there is an acknowledgement of the two masters. In the terms of the teaching, the love of money has not nullified the mastership of God. God is still God and all that is entailed.
In that example, a person might place money above God in importance, but he is only self deceived.
I agree that some live their lives as though Jesus is not Lord, but in return I ask you to answer this:
Who is it that literally has control over every heart beat of every living thing/person?
Who was it that hardened the heart of Pharaoh?
We can't make the Lord of lords and King of kings Lord, for even if we place money in the wrong place in our lives and make it lord, Jesus is still Lord. We all need to acknowledge an existing status, not attempt to recreate it.
In repentance, we turn from one thing to someone. That someone is already Lord.
For a person to make Jesus Lord, that person must of necessity hold greater authority, or at a minimum, equal authority.
1Ti 6:13. I charge you in the presence of God, who gives life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who in his testimony before Pontius Pilate made the good confession,
1Ti 6:14. to keep the commandment unstained and free from reproach until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Ti 6:15. which he will display at the proper time—he who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords,
1Ti 6:16. who alone has immortality, who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal dominion. Amen.
Just re read Eph 4:13,14
Or put it another way, Jesus does not grow in us, we are the ones who need to grow, read the Scripture provided.
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Eph 4:11 And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers,
Eph 4:12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ,
Eph 4:13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ,
Did this scripture say ,"until Christ becomes the fullness of Christ in us? A mature Christian is one who has the fullness of Christ in them. How does this come about? Until we come in the faith, and of the "knowledge" of the Son of God. Spiritual knowledge brings spiritual growth.
I think it's pretty clear this is referring to those who are resurrected given that Christians die and the passage I quoted stating that the sons of the resurrection die no more
By kingdom I am referring to the physical kingdom that will be established at the return of Christ when He will rule over the nations.
Regarding the price paid for eternal life, I don't see any price that must be paid to receive eternal life.
John 11:25-26 Jesus told her, “I am the Resurrection and the Life; whoever puts their trust in me will live again even if they die. And everyone who lives and puts their trust in me will definitely not ever die.
Jesus gives two different scenarios here: those who die but will live again, and those who never die. Some Christians will never die, since they will be alive when Jesus comes; see also 1 Thes. 4:17.
Jesus gives two different scenarios here: those who die but will live again, and those who never die. Some Christians will never die, since they will be alive when Jesus comes; see also 1 Thes. 4:17.
No it's not! It is talking about those who are alive now, and believe in him will never die. The verse before it says, those that believe and do die shall live, AND those who are living now and believe shall never die!!.
John 11:25 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. Whoever believes in me, though he die, yet shall he live,
John 11:26 and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?"
What do you consider more important physical death, or spiritual death?
Absolutely no problemsSorry, I might have misunderstood what you were saying.
Pharoah hardened his own heart after God endured with him for a long time. Pharoah being a vessel to dishonor, are we not told if we purge ourselves of the bad stuff we can become a vessal of honor?
We have to use "all" the scriptures.
Does God give our next heart beat? Does He give everyone their next heart beat?
If there is one scripture to follow that promises to extend our life then we are responsible for the next heart beat. Death and life are in the power of our tongue.
One more time Calvin............... For Jesus to be Lord over someone, they have to "Make" him Lord over them.
Are they not to confes with their mouth and believe in their heart Jesus is Lord?
If we obey not, is it not written in two places we become slaves to the thing we obey?
A person can't have two masters, two lords, Obey one and confess the other. It don't work like that.
You can't be a servant to one, and have a Lord your not subject to.
Rom 6:16 kjva Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
no doubt every knee shall bow, and tongue confess Jesus is Lord. It's one thing to call someone Lord, it's another to call them "YOUR" Lord. Even in the NT folks addressed him as Lord, but not their Lord.
Now you should Know Calvin.
1Co 7:23 kjva Ye are bought with a price; be not ye the servants of men.
1Co 6:19-20 kjva 19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
I did not say something needs "Paid" for, I used in as in past tense.
At what point then does a new believer actually belong to God, spirit and body?
The price was Jesus going to the cross for us, that was what was paid.
If we want to get technical about "when" some became a son of God, it would require the mind of Christ to be able to grasp it.
According to God's foreknowledge of knowing what every single human being would choose after hearing the Gospel, or having faith in the coming messiah he called, and saved before he even created the world!! Being one of those to whom the Lord knew would believe in him gives that person no advantage. Possessing salvation and not knowing you have it profits no one until they hear the gospel of their salvation, and then believe it.
2Ti 1:8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;
2Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
According to God's foreknowledge of knowing what every single human being would choose after hearing the Gospel, or having faith in the coming messiah he called, and saved before he even created the world!! Being one of those to whom the Lord knew would believe in him gives that person no advantage. Possessing salvation and not knowing you have it profits no one until they hear the gospel of their salvation, and then believe it.
2Ti 1:8 Be not thou therefore ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me his prisoner: but be thou partaker of the afflictions of the gospel according to the power of God;
2Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
There are a whole lot of flaws with the way your reading this. My denomination makes "Foreknowledge" remarks.......... "God knows the end from the beging."
However, all scripture must match.
All foreknowledge reverts to election. To know something and go through with it is called Election, not foreknowledge.
It also removes the Saved by Faith, through the grace that was there. Faith no longer becomes important.
So, Paul had to be saying something else here other than God knew who would get saved and not get saved.
What other scriptures could we compare to see exactly what Paul was saying, Us being predestined in Christ before the foundation of the World.
Election according to God's foreknowledge does not do away with faith in any way. Remember, we are not saved by "faith", we are saved by "grace" through faith. That is a big difference. I find this to be one of the easiest things to understand in all scripture, yet more people will fight over it, only because they do not understand it. The Lord knew from eternity what you, and every one ever born on this planet what they would do after hearing the Gospel. Armed with this knowledge the Lord called, and saved those to be his elect, knowing full well they would come. The Lord does not forbid anyone from not coming to him for salvation, but he knows they will not. Every human being on planet earth have the same opportunity to be saved, if they so choose. The Lord is so sure of those who would come, he saved them, and called them before the creation of the world. He even raised them up when thy were still sinners, before they ever exercised faith to access grace by which they are saved.
Eph 2:4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,
Eph 2:5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—
Eph 2:6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
First, we are missing the scripture that God foreknew who would pick to get saved and not get saved. We have a scripture that say or at least hints at that before the foundation of the World, we were predestined to be in Christ Jesus.
That does not say what your saying it says. I am talking about "Before the foundation of the World"
We have a few that say "From the foundation of the world"
You would also need a scripture that Man is around before the body is formed. We do have a couple that indicate the spirit is made when the body is first formed.
You are describing some form of Pentoastal Armainian doctrine.
However, you don't even believe what you just typed to me. Once you actually think about it, you will realize it don't make sense.
This is the problem with reliegion and just believing things we hear others say.
I'll explain more and with scripture later, it's late.
You can't believe in "Foreknowledge" You have to be Calvinist.
God makes the spirit of man (Before the foundation of the World) God knows that spirit won't accept Jesus as God sees the end, from the begging. Yet, God makes the spirit anyway and puts it in man whom is on their way to hell.
That is election, that is not foreknowledge.
If I know putting a dry towel on my stove and turning on the burners will catch it fire, yet do it anyway knowing what will happen is not my great and wonderful foreknowledge.
It's me causing a fire.
The only other thing you could believe is God makes all the people with no thought or purpose, then looks in the crystal ball at each one and determines what will happen to each one. Something else outside of God is making that choice, and God just picks up on it.
However, it's written what we choose is recorded, to bare record in heaven and in earth. It's recorded for a reason, and not beause God already knew else he would not have to record it.
Think about it........... You have to be calvinist, and man does not have free will. To know something, and yet set the conditions and place knowing is not foreknowledge, it's causing.
My hope is you catch this in scriptures and save me posting 50 of them.
Be blessed.
Personally, I think you are confusing 'Make' with 'acknowledge'.
Perhaps if you ever go over to the UK, you might like to let the Queen know that you have decided to make her Queen....or not. Do you have authority to do that?
Mat 6:27. And which of you by being anxious can add a single hour to his span of life?
Luk 12:25. And which of you by being anxious can add a single hour to his span of life?
I don't know how you can think that you exist apart from the will of God..I really don't.
Exo .7:1 And the LORD said to Moses, "See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron shall be your prophet.
Exo 7:2. You shall speak all that I command you, and your brother Aaron shall tell Pharaoh to let the people of Israel go out of his land.
Exo 7:3. But I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and though I multiply my signs and wonders in the land of Egypt,
Exo 7:4 . Pharaoh will not listen to you. ...................................................
Sure thttp://community.linuxmint.com/here are passages that speak of Pharaoh hardening his own heart, but in the whole context of the exodus incident, the Lord God was in absolute control hardening pharaoh's heart.
I'm not going to cut and paste half of Exodus though.
another:
Deu 2:30. But Sihon the king of Heshbon would not let us pass by him, for the LORD your God hardened his spirit and made his heart obstinate, that he might give him into your hand, as he is this day.
From your profile page::
"I stick to scriptures only"
Pleased to read that!
You will be able to show scripture that tells us we have the authority to 'make' Jesus Lord?
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