Mark 16:9-20

[CCW95A]

There are times, for sure, when we have to withstand our brethren to the face, as Paul had to do with Peter. But there are other times when we have to wait for a word from on high. If I wait on God's time, I may not win the debate, but I may win my brother or sister in due course - perhaps in private. Sometimes I feel the public forum isn't the best place for some of the discussions we have. In public, the danger is (and I speak for myself) that a flickering of natural pride won't allow a little spiritual adjustment. Between two brethren in private, things can be discussed more candidly.

I do agree with you completely as timing with the Lord is everything. One of the good things about a public forum like this is that there are a lot more people who come here and read these posts then there are those participating. Sometimes a guest becomes a member because of what they have read here. Right now there are 80 guests, and only 5 members reading this forum.

 

[CCW95A]

And what will you do when it does?
I personally do not know of any families that do not have to deal with illness and disease, regardless of their apparent piety or lack thereof.

All people have to deal with sickness, and death, but in what way do they deal with it. We can do it either by the "flesh" or how the Bible tells us to.

 

[Glomung]

All people have to deal with sickness, and death, but in what way do they deal with it. We can do it either by the "flesh" or how the Bible tells us to.

I'm glad that you clarified that.
It had appeared that you were promoting the notion that your household was somehow free of all the troubles that mere mortals are subject to.

 

[Major]

Major What does Luke 10:19-20 say ?
If you only uses the armor of God to stand and protect you from his darts then you are nothing more then a padded person standing in a batting gage.

We are not simply to just stand back against the enemy. We need to stand our ground and take Authority over the devil and run him out of here. You can not do this if you are waiting around for God to do it.

Yes you did say this ((In response to Satan's attacks, a Christian should appeal to Christ. Instead of focusing on defeating the devil, we should focus on following Christ and that is in Hebrews 12:2 and trust that He will defeat the forces of evil. Then it is not necessary for a Christian to rebuke Satan because God has given us His full armor to stand against evil as seen in Ephesians 6:10-18.))

Brother Jesus already did this - Jesus gave us authority over this and gave of His Blood and Gods word and so forth..........I can give you a shot gun and teach you to shoot it but if you dont use it - then it has no benifit for you....it is the same with this authroity God has given us.
Blessings
Jim

I did spend a lot of time in the batting cages in school. It paid off to with a scholarship!

 

[Major]

Major you are joining two healing actions into one
1. we all have been given the authority and power and right to heal. - Man is the problem in this area.
2.. the gift of heal such as used as a ministry is all together another situation.

Now then Major you said....((( My original question still stands. IF, a man has the gift of healing, why does he need to be in a church or stadium and advertise his event???? In all honesty, don't you have to agree that if YOU had thatgift YOU would be going from one hospital room to another healingas you went )))

A better understanding would be - How has God directed Him to go forth with his ministry?
In all honesty Major - it does not matter what I think or any one else thinks in how some one goes about in their ministry.............They go as God leads............they answer to God and Not you and ME.

Blessings
jim

And what would be those Scriptures Jim that would support your thought?

You see, there is the rub. You call advertising a healing event at the Gator bowl a "ministry".

I do not !!!! I call it fleecing the sheep.

But hey.......if that is what you want to believe, then have at it my brother.

 

[Abdicate]

You are comparing the faith it takes to be saved to the faith in God to healing the sick.

Yep, you got it. I am.

*[[Hab 2:4]]* Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.​

*[[Rom 1:17]]* For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.​

*[[Gal 3:11]]* But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.​

*[[Heb 10:38]]* Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.​

It's all the same faith. God can and does everything, so it's a matter of faith.

*[[Rom 8:32]] KJV* He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?​

Still don't believe...here's Jesus' own words:

*Joh 14:12-15 KJV* Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it. If ye love me, keep my commandments.

*[[Luk 12:28]] KJV* If then God so clothe the grass, which is to day in the field, and to morrow is cast into the oven; how much more will he clothe you, O ye of little faith?
​

And it's not about God being able to do anything...He did everything. The issue is believing He wants to do it to YOU. And He does!!! That's the good news!!!

​

 

[Abdicate]

I'm glad that you clarified that.
It had appeared that you were promoting the notion that your household was somehow free of all the troubles that mere mortals are subject to.

Troubles are promised...It's all about how you deal with it. We have promises many do not believe in and don't claim. Their loss. Not a judgement, I'm just letting folks know of the promises. It's solely about faith. No more no less. Faith to believe in salvation, faith to believe in a healing. All to give God the glory not man or self.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

I did spend a lot of time in the batting cages in school. It paid off to with a scholarship!

Thanks for the smile !!

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

And what would be those Scriptures Jim that would support your thought?

You see, there is the rub. You call advertising a healing event at the Gator bowl a "ministry".

I do not !!!! I call it fleecing the sheep.

But hey.......if that is what you want to believe, then have at it my brother.

Major where do you come up with these things ? Lets say God called you today and said I want you to start a prayer ministry. So you did. Then God says I want you to rent the gator bowl and lead my people in a prayer night. Would you decline because some person claims it is wrong and fleecing the sheep ? If you did then you put more trust into what man thinks then God.

You said what scriptures do I have to back up my thought..........Start in Genesis and go to revelation. It is all about trust and obeying God brother...............

 

[Abdicate]

What they had believed with such certainty and with total faith turned out not to be true. Their faith could not heal the person — only God could heal, and he chose not to, despite their prayers, their faith, God's love and God's promises.

Exactly!!! The protocol is found in James. You can have all the faith in the universe, but if there is sin in your life or even those under your authority, God won't hear our cries:

*[[Psa 66:18]] KJV* If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me:​

Sin must be confessed and repented of even in salvation. No different after salvation.

 

[Abdicate]

I do not agree...Bib surprise, right? You are comparing the faith it takes to be saved to the faith in God to healing the sick.

That is not what I proposed or asked. All Christians I know of believe in the power of God. Again that is not the question. God is the Creator and He has all the power in the universe to do what He wants to do.

You are bringing "faith" into the equation saying that "faith is required". You said......"Learn the protocols of God and then we will understand the power of God".

Listen my dear brother. Many Christians have firmly believed that God would heal a loved one because He and only He has the power to do so. They prayed in faith. They believed in faith. Some believed that they had confirmation from other believers or from other miracles. So they were genuinely surprised, even dumbfounded, and deeply disappointed when the loved one died. What they had believed with such certainty and with total faith turned out not to be true. Their faith could not heal the person — only God could heal, and he chose not to, despite their prayers, their faith, God's love and God's promises.

I can not even begin to count the number of times I have stood with a family and watched their loved one die when they had all the faith in the world that God would heal that person. But He did not choose to do so.

Now, when that happens what do you do???? Do YOU tell those people that they did not have enough faith?????
My dear brothers and sister in Christ, when such disappointments happen, a new trial sets in. Abdicate brought in this faith issue and may I say to you all, that If faith in the healing turned out to be a mistake, what about faith in Christ?

Was it also a mistake? Do you all see the problem here???? This is one of the dangers of the "word of faith" teaching — it links faith in our Savior to faith in specific predictions.

That is what my brother is saying. Here are the exact words............
"Learn the protocols of the word of God and you'd understand how the power of God works. Faith of salvation is the same faith for anything else. If one doesn't have faith for issues in their lives, how can they be certain they have faith for salvation?"

My original question still stands. IF, a man has the gift of healing, why does he need to be in a church or stadium and advertise his event???? In all honesty, don't you have to agree that if YOU had that gift YOU would be going from one hospital room to another healing as you went without asking how much faith a 5 year old child with cancer had or if his parents had any at all?????????

Now then, is it always God's will to heal people who have faith in Christ? Is that the protocol of God's plan????
The biblical evidence is that He sometimes does, and sometimes He does not. Stephen was killed, James was killed. Eventually all the first Christians died of something. Yet, how many times did God save them out of danger before they eventually died? Perhaps many times.

Have you ever wondered about preachers who claim to heal all infirmities, yet they themselves wear eyeglasses? There is no reason why biblical promises would apply to one kind of ailment but not the other. The Scriptures sometimes cited in support of a universal promise of healing do not make any exceptions for eyesight, age, accidents or anything else. But both Scripture and experience tell us that these verses were not intended as universal guarantees.

Yes, some have been healed, sometimes dramatically through the power of God!!!! These are examples of special favor, grace and mercy. but IMO we should not take these examples of God's exceptional grace and create universal promises out of them.

And we especially should not imply that people who aren't healed do not have faith. Sometimes their faith is demonstrated through their suffering — they remain cheerfully confident that God will do what is best for them. Whether they live or whether they die, whether they have prosperity or poverty, they trust in God. There is nothing wrong with their faith.
What is wrong is a teaching that implies that they are somehow not doing enough.!!!!!

Finally...No quotations to your negative faith from the word of God, but I have provided the promises and protocol. I love living God's way in faith and I am super blessed and if that makes me an elitist then I praise God because it's all 100% Him and 0% me!!! ALL wonderful glory to His love, mercy, and promises. I'm sorry your experience didn't pan out, I'd go back to the word of God and not negative teaching nor experiences. Good luck brother. (Yes luck... Without the promises of God you're left to chance...)

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Troubles are promised...It's all about how you deal with it. We have promises many do not believe in and don't claim. Their loss. Not a judgement, I'm just letting folks know of the promises. It's solely about faith. No more no less. Faith to believe in salvation, faith to believe in a healing. All to give God the glory not man or self.

Amen @Abdicate ,
I want to add some things to what you said and not be taking anything away from what you said. I hope it is seen this way too.

The problem starts when "men" decide this is only for these people and not for us or this is not for us now but only the 11 and so forth.
When we became born again we entered into a covenant with God sealed with the blood of Christ. In this covenant you will find promises of God that are very much for us today as they were when He first said them and in many ways even more so for us in this generation.

People think all you need is to be saved and it all either happens or it does not depends on Gods mood that day. lol There are a lot of IF'S in His word......
If you obey me here I will do this
If you walk this way you will have this
If you do this then these results you will see
It works both in the good and in the bad or for you or against you.

People tend to leave out the if parts ( what is required of us ) and then to excuse what they dont have or get or see, as it must be Gods will for me......
Example...... God says to forgive if we have aught against any when we stand praying............. this means must be done now..... If we forgive then God will forgive us our trespass's or wrong doings.......So then If we dont he wont and you wonder why your prayers are not getting answered........

Take faith for another example.........with out Love your faith is useless... Patience is also a key in your faith. Forgiveness is a key to your faith. You can claim you have faith.........however do you have His kind of faith or complete faith ? Is your faith lacking any of these things ? Are you harboring un-forgiveness or hate towards some one ? There are many things that hinder your fiath........the problem is.......most christians either dont believe this or dont spend enough time learning these things and developing their faith.

God Bless
Jim

 

[Abdicate]

Amen @Abdicate ,
I want to add some things to what you said and not be taking anything away from what you said. I hope it is seen this way too.

The problem starts when "men" decide this is only for these people and not for us or this is not for us now but only the 11 and so forth.
When we became born again we entered into a covenant with God sealed with the blood of Christ. In this covenant you will find promises of God that are very much for us today as they were when He first said them and in many ways even more so for us in this generation.

People think all you need is to be saved and it all either happens or it does not depends on Gods mood that day. lol There are a lot of IF'S in His word......
If you obey me here I will do this
If you walk this way you will have this
If you do this then these results you will see
It works both in the good and in the bad or for you or against you.

People tend to leave out the if parts ( what is required of us ) and then to excuse what they dont have or get or see, as it must be Gods will for me......
Example...... God says to forgive if we have aught against any when we stand praying............. this means must be done now..... If we forgive then God will forgive us our trespass's or wrong doings.......So then If we dont he wont and you wonder why your prayers are not getting answered........

Take faith for another example.........with out Love your faith is useless... Patience is also a key in your faith. Forgiveness is a key to your faith. You can claim you have faith.........however do you have His kind of faith or complete faith ? Is your faith lacking any of these things ? Are you harboring un-forgiveness or hate towards some one ? There aremany things that hinder your fiath........the problem is.......most christians either dont believe this or dont spend enough time learning these things and developing their faith.

God Bless
Jim

The Lord sent out 70 to show it wasn't just for the 12...

 

[CCW95A]

When faith was required it was in Jesus, not necessarily that one believes they could be healed.

Brother were does faith come from? From the Word. Having "faith" in Jesus is having faith in the Word, sense he is the Word of God. Are we to have faith in our self? absolutely not. Having faith in our self is somebody telling you they tried this faith stuff, and did not work.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

The Lord sent out 70 to show it wasn't just for the 12...

Dont tell me lol ...........I have no problem believing His promises..........

 

[Abdicate]

Off to play minigolf with the family

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Brother were does faith come from? From the Word. Having "faith" in Jesus is having faith in the Word, sense he is the Word of God. Are we to have faith in our self? absolutely not. Having faith in our self is somebody telling you they tried this faith stuff, and did not work.

Curtis it always makes me rofl when I hear some one say I tried this faith stuff and it did not work...........No Gods word or Living by Faith tried You and you failed is the correct way to see it.

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Off to play minigolf with the family

Remember ........ you can get in the hole there and still be in good shape. lolololoolll

 

[Abdicate]

Parting thought...

Eph 4:4-6 KJV There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.​

 

[Fish Catcher Jim]

Parting thought...

Eph 4:4-6 KJV There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.​

And yet man made many doctrines and denominations and so forth all saying something different........