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Mark 16:9-20

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Grant Melville, Sep 25, 2015.

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  1. Some scholars have raised doubts about the genuineness and inspiration of Mark 16:9-20. With regards to that, I found an address entitled 'Completing Matters' by Mr J. Taylor (Vol. 78, p 67) helpful. Here's an extract:

    "I wish to speak at this time about the need for the completion of matters in the assembly. This thought has come to my mind in connection with the scriptures read, while in this meeting.

    There are persons who question the authenticity of these verses, claiming that they have been added to the book by someone other than the writer of the gospel. But they really are necessary to bind up, or complete, the gospel, and there hardly can be any doubt but that they are a part of Mark's writing. Mark has his own particular way of expressing himself. One thing that characterises him is that he is very brief — more so than the other gospel writers. But he is most careful to carry matters through to completion. And this is very important, and especially so in assembly matters. The Scriptures tell us that the creation was finished: "And the heavens and the earth and all their host were finished", Genesis 2:1. And we are also told how the matter was completed. The heavens were garnished, we are told. That suggests adornment — not only that they were finished, but that they were made beauteous. And Noah finished the ark — it was completed. The word is, "And Noah did it", Genesis 6:22. And so throughout the Scriptures we find incidents in which matters are brought to completion. God would have it so."

    I would highly recommend reading the full address, which can be found in full online.
    Abdicate, Cturtle and Fish Catcher Jim says Amen and like this.
  2. @Grant Melville ,
    Hey I wanted to thank you for posting this. I have not read the article other then what you have told us - However I alreay believe there is nothing admiss or wrong in His word. It is there because it is to be there and all the theologians and their studies mean nothing unto God. You learn spiritual truth by the spirt and by the spirit only.
    God Bles
    Complete, Grant Melville and Cturtle says Amen and like this.
  3. Ya know i think i have to agree that if it is in God's Word, whether or not a translater decided to make a note that they did or not. It is there because the Holy Spirit wanted it in there. And like what was said, it completes things and God does not leave things undone. :)

    Complete, Grant Melville and Fish Catcher Jim says Amen and like this.
  4. Not to mention.........Mark - John - Luke and Matthew are four different people.
    They all think and speak different one from another and through each of them God was able to give us what he wanted us to have.

    Now then there is another side to this............ If any one thinks that is all there is to Gods written word then they are blind to the spiritual things of God. We are to seek Him with our entire being and grow in Him which means His ways whicvh comes from His word. As we seek Him - He then can reveal more and more truth of His written word.

    So I ask you this.........why would God who is smarter then all of us put together.........Have four men write the exact same thing word for word ?
    Complete and Cturtle say Amen and like this.
  5. Makes me wonder if regular people who are not theologians don't trust in themselves to hear what God is saying correctly or they are just plain to busy or lazy to dig into the Word of God for themselves. Why would anyone put all their trust lock stock and barrel into any man who has studied everything, but has no claims of receiving from the Holy Spirit, what he has written to define the written Word of God? The Bible says in 1 Corinthians 2:14 that the things of the Spirit (which in my opinion one is the Word of God) are spiritually discerned.
    Euphemia, Grant Melville and Fish Catcher Jim says Amen and like this.
  6. Agreed and yet many of the so called great theologians truly believe they are guided by the Holy Spirit. I am not saying that none of them are but I would say that most are not. It is way to easy to see this when you read or hear their arguments on any given scripture and how they perceive what God is saying. They deny way to much and wont except anything other then what they think is Goldy wisdom.

    1 Corinthians 1:27 says it well
    But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

    God Bless
    Grant Melville likes this.
  7. Absolutely! Mr Coates connects "the baken pieces of the oblation" in Leviticus 6:21 with the four gospels: "He has not put all in one Gospel, but has given us four. Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John each had priestly apprehensions of Christ as the oblation, but each had his own distinctive presentation. Men have often tried to merge the four Gospels in one account, but this sets aside the divine wisdom in which the beauty and perfection of Christ have been set before us, and substitutes for it a human compilation in which there is no priestly intelligence, and in which the true features of the oblation are obscured." (An Outline of Leviticus, Chapter VI, p. 80).
    Fish Catcher Jim and Complete say Amen and like this.
  8. #8 Grant Melville, Sep 26, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2015
    That's very true - and so many people nowadays are subscribers of this or that theologian or great teacher, or someone who claims to be a prophet or an apostle. And more often than not, the teachings of these prominent people tends to be a mixture of truth and error, which is more dangerous than unmixed error.

    I believe that the primary place of learning is in the assembly. I wouldn't say that it's the only place we learn, because there's no question that we learn through a daily dependent walk with the Lord, in all sorts of circumstances, and we learn by reading written ministry and private study of the Word. But, in my experience, where all that learning and experience comes together is in the assembly, when the brethren are gathered. We have it in Ephesians that the ascended Christ "has given some apostles, and some prophets, and some evangelists, and some shepherds and teachers, for the perfecting of the saints; with a view to the work of the ministry, with a view to the edifying of the body of Christ..." (Ephesians 4:11-12). When we gather together on scriptural lines, on the apostolic foundation, hearing the word of God as it's come to us through prophecy, with evangelists and shepherds and teachers carrying out their ministry - well, that's an atmosphere in which we can be edified. It's not a place where there's some great theologian taking centre stage, day after day, to impart his own thoughts (however correct they might be). It's a gathering where Christ is the centre, and in which He has set various gifted people to go about the work of ministry. There are teachers who teach, but they aren't above or independent of the assembly, and their work of ministry goes on together with that of the shepherds. The assembly is a safe place, a peaceful place, and a place of unity (if conditions are right). It's a holy place, where the Holy Spirit is free and unhindered. In conditions which are suitable for God's dwelling, where the Holy Spirit is free, the teaching will be of the Spirit, and what's taught will be God's mind. If anything that's error, or of the natural mind and not the mind of God, happens to come in, it'll be instantly detected in that atmosphere of divine light. It'll stand out, and be corrected there and then, and so the saints are kept safe and kept on right lines.

    But, we can't always be gathered, and we have to apply ourselves to learning at other times - but I think we can still enjoy assembly teaching. Personally, I would be wary of anything that's presented as written ministry which comes from the mind of one man (or woman) independent of the assembly. That's not to say that godly men and women don't get impressions and wisdom from God in the course of their personal lives which they can profitably share with us all. They do, of course. But I would never trust a person who sets up their own 'ministry', or who publishes their own ideas, and claims to speak from God. The assembly is where much of God's precious truth has come out. I have a vast collection of written ministry which was brought out by various servants of the Lord, such as Mr Darby, Mr Coates, Mr Raven, Mr Taylor, and many, many others. The bulk of this ministry came out in the assembly - in inquiries into the scriptures, in addresses in the assembly, in gospel preachings. It came out in that atmosphere where the Holy Spirit is free, where divine speaking can be heard and known as such. This is a great safeguard against the mind of man. If I introduce something into the assembly which is wrong teaching, it'll instantly be detected, and corrected, and I'll be helped. Those safeguards aren't in place if I set myself up as a self-proclaimed prophet or oracle and brook no scrutiny or question.

    Of course, no servant of the Lord is infallible, and each ministered according to the measure of light that they had. Mr J.N. Darby, for example, who was greatly used in the recovery of the truth, referred to the Lord's body being "broken" in the breaking of bread at the Supper, for quite some time after he was called out of the Church of Ireland. Later, he got help as to that and realised that the Lord's body was never broken, it was always One Whole, and when He set on the Supper, he broke the bread so that the disciples could take it and eat of it, feeding in Him - as we do at the Supper likewise. We all learn and grow in our apprehension of the truth. Whatever teaching we receive, we have to test by the Holy Spirit. He never fails to guide us right.

    As an aside, now that I come to think of it, I've learned more in the gatherings of the saints than I have in all my private study and reading.
    KingJ likes this.
  9. Hello there, @Grant Melville,

    I have not heard of an objection to this portion of Mark's gospel before.
    I agree with the opinions expressed in response to your initial post, by other members, and praise God, that His Word to us can be trusted and relied upon in it's entirety.

    In Christ Jesus
  10. I'd never heard of any objection to it either, till @Major mentioned on another thread that some scholars do take issue with it.

    The brethren here seem to be of one mind about the completeness and inspiration of the word of God, which is encouraging.
    Fish Catcher Jim likes this.
  11. I remember now that have heard objections to what is called 'the great commission' of Mark 15-18: as to whether it is a commission which applies to any other than the twelve.

    In Christ Jesus
  12. Jerome translated the gospels from Greek to Latin and he included it in his translation despite Eusabis' objections. I really believe the attack on these verses are because of this statement:

    Mar 16:17-18 KJV And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.​

    Today, it's easy to dismiss this fact because the vast majority of claimed Christians have never experienced God no more than they've experienced George Washington...too far too many see Jesus as no more than a historical figure. For those who don't believe in the power it's repeated by Paul as a sure sign in 1 Cor 12 of real Christians not pseudo Christians. Truly this is true:

    Mat 7:21-23 KJV Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.​

    Many have played Christian all their lives and will have a very sorrowful ending in hell.
    JG27_chili and Euphemia say Amen and like this.
  13. Of course scripture states Jesus' bones were not broken. Obviously, though, His skin and flesh were broken, even pieces of flesh ripped from His back. In this way one can say His body was broken.
    JG27_chili likes this.
  14. Being that it is the age of times that it is, we have it better then any other generation that has ever lived. With all the modern day technology we have, there is NO excuse for a born agaian believer to not grow up in Christ and fulfill his or her plan that God has for them.

    In this day and age we all can have a pocket preacher 24/7. Yep no other generation had so many different ways to " Hear His Written Word Taught " Since Faith comes by hearing and hearing the word of God - well in this day and age we all should be spiritual giants to say the least.

    Every one has an i-pod or android this or that or something that plays back Sound. There are so many resources available to the born again believer for Free teaching His ways from His word. How many hours are spent with music and other such sound or images in your device daily ? Now then how many hours daily does your device teach of His written word ?

    Brothers and Sisters our pockets should be a witness to those we pass every single day - I mean if you never do any other evangelizing in your life time here in this earth.......at least your pockets should.

    Yea I know it sounds silly but then again - think about it. Scripture says the Word Of God Never Returns Void.......never returns void.....can you see this ? Never as in Not Ever.

    We have access to more media Free to us from sound to text. Sermans to books and His word never returns void. Scripture says Keep His word before your eyes and in your mouth at all times. Wont happen unless You make it happen.

    This is truly a blessed generation and check it out........Scripture says God knew us before the foundation of the earth. This means God knew YOU before the angels were created and before life was even on this planet AND He has placed YOU in this day and age. Not your great aunt oh she missed it or uncle was not here - How Ever You Are Here. This means we have something to be doing.

    Remember folks we are justified by our words and we are condemned by our words.
    As we stand before the Father - accountable for this life He has given us - will your actions or deeds burn with the rubble or get you a well done my faithful servant ? How will you stand to the test of time that He has given you ?

    Take Gods word for what it says and seek His Spiritual Understanding on His word....after all He is the author - dont ya know. ;) And Most Importanly..........Actually Do What Is Written In His Most Holy Word for us to do.........Just do it.......
    God Bless
    Cturtle and Abdicate say Amen and like this.
  15. And I just read this this morning :)

    Luk 17:5-10 ISV Then the apostles told the Lord, “Give us more faith!” The Lord replied, “If you have faith the size of a mustard seed, you could say to this mulberry tree, ‘Be uprooted and planted in the sea,’ and it would obey you! “Suppose a man among you has a servant plowing or watching sheep. Would he say to him when he comes in from the field, ‘Come at once and have something to eat’? Of course not. Instead, he would say to him, ‘Get dinner ready for me, and put on your apron and wait on me until I eat and drink. Then you can eat and drink.’ He doesn’t praise the servant for doing what was commanded, does he? That’s the way it is with you. When you have done everything you were ordered to do, say, ‘We are worthless servants. We have done only what we ought to have done.’”​
  16. #16 CCW95A, Sep 27, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2015
    It appears that all the gospel writers shared with each other their accounts of what Jesus said and did while being among him. It is for sure they copied from each other, and then added other things as the Holy Spirit came upon them. The Gospel of John seems to be the most different from the rest.

    Luke 1:1 Inasmuch as many have undertaken to compile a narrative of the things that have been accomplished among us,
    Luke 1:2 just as those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and ministers of the word have delivered them to us,
    Luke 1:3 it seemed good to me also, having followed all things closely for some time past, to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus,
    Luke 1:4 that you may have certainty concerning the things you have been taught.
  17. #17 CCW95A, Sep 27, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2015
    The five fold ministry has a time limit on it. It will only last, "Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man". Once that comes about it is no longer needed for that person who has become perfect (mature). Every single person in the body of Christ does the "work of the ministry" not just only five people. What is the "work of the ministry"? For the "perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:" Each and every Christian is called to this work! The five fold ministry is to "perfect" the saints so that they (the Saints) can do the work of the ministry, which is to build up the Body of Christ.

    The Apostle Paul was trying to teach a group of people in the book of Hebrews, but could not because they were still babies in the Lord, yet they had been saved long enough to where they should have been "teachers" them-self's. How long does it take to become mature to where one can go about teaching others, thereby being able to edify the body of Christ, which is the work of the ministry?

    Are we suppose to stay in a brick, and mortar building Church until we die, or are we to lean and become "mature" and then go out to teach others, so that they to can teach others?

    Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
    Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
    Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
    Eph 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

    Heb 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
    Heb 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
    Heb 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
    Euphemia likes this.
  18. 1 Corinthians 11:23-24
    For I received from the Lord that which I also delivered to you: that the Lord Jesus on the same night in which He was betrayed took bread; 24 and when He had given thanks, He broke it and said, “Take, eat; this is My body which is broken for you; do this in remembrance of Me.”


    A primary verb; to break (specifically of bread): - break.
  19. Hello @Euphemia,

    The marginal notes in my Bible inform me that the word 'broken' is not in the original text, but was added in translation.

    Compare Matthew 26:26.

    In Christ Jesus
    Grant Melville likes this.
  20. Yes, that's true. But, we must be careful to maintain that His body was never divided or one part separated from another. This teaches us the vital truth of the indivisible nature of the assembly, His body.

    Quite so - Mr Darby leaves the word out of his translation: "... and having given thanks broke it, and said, This is my body, which is for you: this do in remembrance of me." It would seem that a lot of the modern translations leave the word out as well.

    The breaking of the bread would be connected with the truth which the Lord brings out in John 6, "I am the living bread which has come down out of heaven: if any one shall have eaten of this bread he shall live for ever; but the bread withal which I shall give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world." (John 6:51) &c. At the Supper, an unbroken loaf is put on the table, in which we see the figure of the assembly as a whole, the undivided body of Christ. Then the bread is broken so that we can partake of it, we can feed on it, assimilate it. By feeding on Christ, we have life. He said to the Jews, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Unless ye shall have eaten the flesh of the Son of man, and drunk his blood, ye have no life in yourselves." (John 6:53).
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