Is Mary the New Eve?

Fadingman said:
I go to work and come back and the thread has blossomed to 5 pages, yet hasn't blown up into a heated battle of words... Excellent! (...at least I assume that's the case: I only skimmed through the posts.)

On a point made further back, I don't see Mary as the mother of God so much as the mother of the Son of God. Her function as mother ties in with Jesus' humanity rather than His deity. But maybe I'm getting too picky.
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Yes.....I am amazed as well. I agree with your comment.

The reason why it has not exploded I think is that our mod....Lysander has been active and honest and also it seems that we have a couple of people who are not here anymore, or at least this past week. That seems to have settled down the waves of arguments that rolled over the site. Hmmmmmm
 
LysanderShapiro said:
I appreciate the response, Cloud.
I'll be honest -- I agonized over this for years in my process of conversion from Evangelicalism to Catholicism. I know this is a cliche, but having been on that side of the argument, I know it quite well. I don't think the Catholic Church's viewpoint is extreme one bit. I think it is on point.

I only came to that conclusion through open-mindedness...otherwise, I'd probably still hold the position that Mary was nothing more than a incubator for Jesus.
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Good thread Lysander! Good conversation without anger and pride and the "need to be right" cropping up.

You have done good my brother now go and ask Pastor Gary for a raise!
 
Major said:
Yes.....I am amazed as well. I agree with your comment.

The reason why it has not exploded I think is that our mod....Lysander has been active and honest and also it seems that we have a couple of people who are not here anymore, or at least this past week. That seems to have settled down the waves of arguments that rolled over the site. Hmmmmmm
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Don't you dare pander to me, Major ;)
 
Major said:
Good thread Lysander! Good conversation without anger and pride and the "need to be right" cropping up.

You have done good my brother now go and ask Pastor Gary for a raise!
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Thank you, Major -- I feel encouraged by that.

Pastor Gary, you heard the man. I'd appreciate two saltines a week moving forward -- I've earned it.
 
Major said:
Agreed 100% with you King! My only thought would be that what we do as Christians in helping others has no effect on our "standing" as SAINTS of God. We are saints because of our choice for Christ.

Mother Theresa was wonderful and probably did more for people than anyone else ever will. She is in the same category as Annie Armstrong who died for the people of China. Both are saints of God because of their faith in Christ.
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Higher than the Angels, because of our freewill, and without seeing we believed.
 
I'd say higher than the Angels not by anything we do or believe, but placed were we are by the Grace of God acting toward us through the risen Lord Jesus.
As that great Augustinian priest put it so well,
Salvation by Grace alone through Faith alone in Christ alone.
 
We will have to disagree in the use of the word "Saint".
When any one of us can do the things that St. Anthony of Padua did, then I may change my mind.
When any of us "lay on hands" all it does is leave fingerprints.
And NO, the Bible does not say that "any believer is a saint", "You believe that there is one God. ... Even the demons believe--and tremble."
 
calvin said:
I'd say higher than the Angels not by anything we do or believe, but placed were we are by the Grace of God acting toward us through the risen Lord Jesus.
As that great Augustinian priest put it so well,
Salvation by Grace alone through Faith alone in Christ alone.
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Amen!
 
Glomung said:
We will have to disagree in the use of the word "Saint".
When any one of us can do the things that St. Anthony of Padua did, then I may change my mind.
When any of us "lay on hands" all it does is leave fingerprints.
And NO, the Bible does not say that "any believer is a saint", "You believe that there is one God. ... Even the demons believe--and tremble."
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OK. It is your choice. All I can say is that apparently the Bible tells us something else.

Acts 9:13 (ESV)
13 But Ananias answered, “Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much evil he has done to your saints at Jerusalem. "

Acts 9:32 (ESV)
32 Now as Peter went here and there among them all, he came down also to the saints who lived at Lydda

Acts 26:10 (ESV)
10 And I did so in Jerusalem. I not only locked up many of the saints in prison after receiving authority from the chief priests, but when they were put to death I cast my vote against them.

Philippians 4:21 (ESV)
21 Greet every saint in Christ Jesus. The brothers who are with me greet you.

Romans 16:2 (ESV)
2 that you may welcome her in the Lord in a way worthy of the saints, and help her in whatever she may need from you, for she has been a patron of many and of myself as well.

Ephesians 5:3 (ESV)
3 But sexual immorality and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints.
 
The subject of saints might be a good separate discussion actually.
What is a saint? Are we already saints? Is sainthood our goal? Is saintliness our mission? What disqualifies someone from being a saint?

Etc. etc. etc.

Don't answer any of those here, but I'm pitching this as a possible thread.
 
Major said:
OK. It is your choice. All I can say is that apparently the Bible tells us something else.

Acts 9:13 (ESV)
13 But Ananias answered, “Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much evil he has done to your saints at Jerusalem. "

Acts 9:32 (ESV)
32 Now as Peter went here and there among them all, he came down also to the saints who lived at Lydda

Acts 26:10 (ESV)
10 And I did so in Jerusalem. I not only locked up many of the saints in prison after receiving authority from the chief priests, but when they were put to death I cast my vote against them.

Philippians 4:21 (ESV)
21 Greet every saint in Christ Jesus. The brothers who are with me greet you.

Romans 16:2 (ESV)
2 that you may welcome her in the Lord in a way worthy of the saints, and help her in whatever she may need from you, for she has been a patron of many and of myself as well.

Ephesians 5:3 (ESV)
3 But sexual immorality and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints.
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What you are missing by miles is that those bits of scripture you are quoting were referencing the apostles and their students, real saints.
Those lines have nothing to do with you, me, or anyone on this forum.
 
Glomung said:
Do they? I hadn't noticed. As I said before, most are indistinguishable from the heathens.
I think that your vision might be clearer without the "rose-colored-glasses".
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I see anyone that makes a stand for Jesus and holds onto scripture with integrity as radiating Jesus. Albeit they may at times be having a few beers with heathens.
 
Glomung said:
What you are missing by miles is that those bits of scripture you are quoting were referencing the apostles and their students, real saints.
Those lines have nothing to do with you, me, or anyone on this forum.
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Nope. I did not miss any of them. Every single Scripture is important to me and valid for truth.
Saying that the Scriptures posted are "Bits" gives the indication that they are not valid to you my brother.

And on top of that, your comment comfirms exactly what I said. The apostles and their students were SAINTS. I agree 100% because they just like us today were believers in the Lord!!!!!

Would posting 100 be more acceptable than 5? How many is needed to validate the truth of the Scriptures so that they are not considered "bits"???

Allow me to show you something else from the Bible Glo.........
Daniel 8:21
"I beheld and the same horn made war with the SAINTS and prevailed against them"!

25
"And he shall speak great words against the most High and shall wear out the SAINTS of the most High.........."

Both of those verses refer to believers during the tribulation and they are not apostles neither are they students of Paul but the Word of God calls them SAINTS.

I really do not understand your thinking here on this. If you do not agree, that is absolutely fine with me, but I do not think that the approach of belittling the value of Scripture is the way to go.....IMO.

As I said we will have to agree to disagree on this one.
 
Major said:
I have been in agreement with just about all that you have posted and I am glad to have you here. My hope is that you will stay for a long time as we need people who are grounded in the Word of God and you appear to be just that.

Believe me.....I am glad my comment spoke to you but it certainly was not aimed at you. It was just something I have noticed over the years.
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Thank you, Major...I feel blessed and welcome to be here. If I appear well-grounded, it is credit due to our Lord. I pursued Buddhism and Bahai'ism(sp?) after being raised Christian, but praise God! He brought (and is bringing) me home.
 
I think Paul’s letter to the Corinthians is known for Paul reprimanding the congregation that there are quarrels among them….

YET, it is interesting to note how the greeting in the letter:

1 Corinthians 1 New King James Version (NKJV)
Greeting
1 Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
2 To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all who in every place call on the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
3 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
 
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