Is Mary the New Eve?

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Major, Sep 23, 2014.

  1. #1 Major, Sep 23, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2014
    On the thread, "The Popes new tweet" the following comment was made..............

    "Indeed, honoring our own mothers is modeling off of Jesus, but we also honor Mary as the mother of God. We recognize that as Jesus is the new Adam, Mary must be the new eve."

    Another posting said that along with that being traditional it was also Scriptural.

    It was said that a new thread should be started in order to discuss this further. I am aware of Rule 3.2 and I am not trying to argue or demean any faith. I am following through with what was said needed to be done. If this is not acceptable as a topic, and stretches the rules, delete it immediately if you so choose.

    That is what was suggested and here it is........Is Mary the New Eve????
     
  2. I think as long as we approach with this respect for one another, avoiding attempts to besmirch unfairly, and understand that each of us are madly in love with Christ, then I anticipate a good conversation.

    Is Mary the New Eve?

    What is the New Eve?
     
  3. My uderstanding is that Christians believe that Jesus is the New Adam because Paul clearly showed and explains that.

    However, in addition to that, Catholic doctrine also teaches that Mary is the (human) New Eve and that God wants us to go to Jesus through her so that just as satan used Eve to get his victory over Adam we use Mary to obtain the graces from Jesus we need to conquer satan. As through the intercession of a woman satan succeeded so through the intercession of a woman he is defeated.

    If this is incorrect, it can be valided by several Catholic sites. One of those is:
    http://www.stpeterslist.com/682/6-biblical-reasons-mary-is-the-new-eve/
     
  4. I think that is fair way of putting it -- of course I'd suggest there really is more to it than that, but it's certainly a start.
     
  5. I have to say I admire the comparison made, especially no. 2

    1. An Intimate Relationship
    Eve From Adam
    New Adam from New Eve

    2. Recipients of Supernatural Messengers
    A Virgin Listens to the Serpent
    A Virgin Listen to the Angel


    3. Bearers of Universal Change
    Eve Gives Birth to Sin & Death
    New Eve Gives Birth to Grace & Salvation

    4. Together They Change Creation
    Eve & Adam Together Cause the Fall
    New Eve and New Adam Together Cause Salvation

    5. Universal Maternity
    Eve Becomes the “Mother of All the Living”
    New Eve Becomes the “Mother of All Who Live in Christ”

    6.Enmity
    Enmity Between Eve & the Serpent
    Enmity between the New Eve and Satan
     
  6. Major there is one point of the utmost importance that needs to be made here.
    1Cor 15:45. Thus it is written, "The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
    I believe it right and proper to uphold the integrity of God's word.
    It is clear that Paul speaks not of a 'new' Adam, but of the 'last' Adam.
    This is important because from Paul's vantage in time it could be true that Jesus was the new Adam, but come around 610 AD or so we could maybe see a new(er) Adam.
    But Paul writing by divine inspiration, claimed the status of 'last' or 'final' for Jesus...there can be no latter johny come lately Adams. Jesus is the penultimate (if I can use that word here)
    So if it is wrong Scripturally speaking to think of Jesus as the new Adam, it brings to question the appropriateness of thinking in terms of a new Eve. A last Eve perhaps?
     
  7. BTW penultimate is next to last.
     
  8. 1. An Intimate Relationship
    Eve From Adam
    New Adam from New Eve
    iffy
    2. Recipients of Supernatural Messengers
    A Virgin Listens to the Serpent
    A Virgin Listen to the Angel

    We are not told that at the time of the fall Eve was a virgin.

    3. Bearers of Universal Change
    Eve Gives Birth to Sin & Death
    New Eve Gives Birth to Grace & Salvation
    Grace and Salvation pre-dated Mary

    4. Together They Change Creation
    Eve & Adam Together Cause the Fall
    New Eve and New Adam Together Cause Salvation
    This is the same as saying Mary is co-redeemer
    5. Universal Maternity
    Eve Becomes the “Mother of All the Living”
    New Eve Becomes the “Mother of All Who Live in Christ”

    6.Enmity
    Enmity Between Eve & the Serpent
    Enmity between the New Eve and Satan
     
    KingJ and Major say Amen and like this.
  9. Yes, we can say Last Adam and Last Eve to put things in perspective. It's really just meant to mean a fulfillment of what Adam couldn't accomplish.
     
  10. Yes of course I meant Ultimate. Been reading a book that uses both those terms and .....
    Yeah I stand corrected.
     
  11. OK : )
     
  12. We can say last Adam because that is Biblical.
     
    C1oudwatch3r and Major say Amen and like this.
  13. #13 Major, Sep 23, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2014
    Yes sir. I have thought that as well. I am so glad that you brought it up.

    It would also be helpful to all reading these comments to realize that the 1st man was "psychical" ( Greek = zosan).
    That means he was physical and psychological. The LAST Adam who was Christ is "Spiritual" (Greek = pneuma).

    The 1st man was of the earth and is earthly...(Greek = choikos, or clay), rubbish as some would translate.
    But that 2nd man, LAST man is the Lord Jesus Christ. He is NOT the second Adam. or a New Adam..He is the Last Adam and is the head of a new race.
     
    calvin likes this.
  14. I think this is a pretty good list. I think Calvin mentioned that we can't say entirely that Eve was a virgin at the point of her temptation. Though of course she was the woman.
     
    Major likes this.
  15. Eve was the wife of Adam. Mary was not the wife of Jesus. The new Eve would be the church, which God made from the last Adam. We're just waiting for the wedding to take place.
     
    KingJ, C1oudwatch3r, calvin and 4 others say Amen and like this.
  16. In a way, I wouldn't disagree with you on that. A few of the early Church doctors have defined Mary as almost like the Church personified.
     
  17. Reading the list, it seems Mary was more of an Anti-Eve. What Eve was, Mary wasn't. What Eve did, Mary didn't. Eve was Adam's wife and helper. Mary was Jesus' mother and raised him as He was her son. Mary had authority over Jesus as a boy. Eve never had authority over Adam.
    I don't understand this need to aggrandize Mary as anything more than the mother of Jesus, or the Virgin Mary. It is almost like we are bestowing honors to her to, in a way, please God/Jesus so as to gain approval to be favored. Naming Mary the new/last Eve or the Queen mother seems a bit much. And the last I checked, to be a queen mother, you need to be married to the prior king. God the Father and Mary were not married, as I know of. She was the holy vessel used to bring Jesus into the world to bring salvation. I could agree with naming her the Holy Vessel, but I can't go further than that.
     
    C1oudwatch3r, calvin, aha and 1 other person say Amen and like this.
  18. That's an interesting way of looking at it. You're right -- Mary did what Eve could not do. She was obedient while Eve was disobedient. Just as Jesus was obedient to God's plan and Adam wasn't. He failed.

    I wouldn't say though that we are intending to bestow honors to her to gain approval or favor. The intention is to give honor to Mary that was already there -- not any sort of additional honor, but the honor God bestowed on her as requesting her to be the virgin mother.
     
  19. I am also of the opinion that new Even could only be Church and not Mary
     
  20. #20 aha, Sep 23, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2014
    I believe there is wisdom why it “born of a virgin” instead of like that of John’s (the Baptist). I think it in the same manner that “it is fitting to fulfill all righteousness” that Jesus on why John need to baptize….

    Now, I admire the comparison, not the “virgin” or even the “new Eve” that caught my attention on #2,
    it is more on what is more important: obedience….


    In the same manner a woman of Israel focus on physical “being a Mother” (physical/carnal) instead of what is more important: obedience...

    Matthew 3:13-15New King James Version (NKJV)
    John Baptizes Jesus
    13 Then Jesus came from Galilee to John at the Jordan to be baptized by him. 14 And John tried to prevent Him, saying, “I need to be baptized by You, and are You coming to me?”

    15 But Jesus answered and said to him, “Permit it to be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he allowed Him.

    Luke 11:27-28New King James Version (NKJV)
    Keeping the Word
    27 And it happened, as He spoke these things, that a certain woman from the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, “Blessed is the womb that bore You, and the breasts which nursed You!”

    28 But He said, “More than that, blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”

    Luke 1:36-38New King James Version (NKJV)
    36 Now indeed, Elizabeth your relative has also conceived a son in her old age; and this is now the sixth month for her who was called barren. 37 For with God nothing will be impossible.”

    38 Then Mary said, “Behold the maidservant of the Lord! Let it be to me according to your word.” And the angel departed from her.
     
    LysanderShapiro likes this.

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