If I were to commit suicide, would I go to hell?

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1. Which one of us can claim to be fully submitted to Jesus? 2. I would love to claim that status, but like Paul, I am all too aware of my own weakness.

So as far as the human heart is concerned,-
3. Suicide is therefore no different to all your other sins is it?
If suicide points to not being submitted to Jesus, heart anger must also point to not being fully submitted to Jesus.
4. If suicide points to not being a christian, then anger points to not being a christian.
If suicide indicates loving evil, then anger indicates to loving evil.
If anger indicates loving evil, by your definition anger gets you into hell.

If Jesus equated anger to murder, what is "mortal sin" that makes it different to other sins?
5. In fact the definition "mortal sin" is just a catholic invention which falsely colours people's understanding of scripture.

1. A Christian is a new creation and by default in submission to Jesus. ''Full'' is from God's vantage point not ours. We would not be Christian if we did not pass God's testing of our hearts and minds Jer 17:9-10.

2. Do you think Paul was referring to murdering Christians in Rom 7:15?

3. If you are not using brains, sure. I am always amazed at how so many Christians are stuck on all sin = sin from Matt 5. As though that is the only scripture on sin. If you take Matt 5:28 (thought = adultery) we see that Jesus qualifies His statement in vs 32 where He says except for ''actual'' adultery (not thoughts) can we divorce. Making it clear that Jesus is making a point separate from mortal and venial sins. Namely that no sins are in God's presence. Now we have known that from day 1... when Adam and Eve were removed from the garden (not sent to Hades or Hell).

4. Suicide implies God is not talking to you /you have zero respect for your body / God put you through what you couldn't handle / you are in 100% resistance to submission to God. It is not anywhere close to a simple emotion of anger...

5. It is not a Catholic invention. You cannot read the OT without grasping different punishments for different sins. Then you need to be blind to read the NT and not see it. Example: Did Paul write 1 Cor 5 because the church was 'thinking' bad thoughts....?
 
I believe that suicide is pure rebellion against Jesus Christ, and this is because you are taking your life, which belongs to Him, and ending it before its time. But if I were to commit suicide, would I go to hell? What do you think?

The scripture does not say it is the unpardonable sin, but nevertheless you would be breaking the commandment, "thou shalt not kill." Consider this, especially since scripture tells us your body does not belong to you.

For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's. 1 Cor 6:20

Suicide also demonstrates lack of faith in Gods promises which is also sin. Rom 14:23

There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be ablet o bear it."1 Cor 10:13

Blessings,

MoG
 
I too have known good people who have comitted suicide. I want to believe they are in heaven. But the evidence does not point there.

What evidence are you making such a judgment by? If they have received Jesus Christ by faith as their Saviour, then God's grace is able to keep them, whether they are killed in an accident, or by a ravaging disease, or are overcome with a mental illness and die by their own tortured, demonically-influenced hand. They will be welcomed into the arms of their Lord.
 
I am not saying the sin of suicide gets you into hell. I am saying the state of the heart prior to that points to one that is not in full submission to Jesus.

No sin ever condemned anyone to hell. Loving what is evil gets' you into hell. We are not God and can only really judge actions. Mortal sins point to someone being further lost to loving what is evil.

Many Christians die outside of FULL submission to Jesus Christ. Should they be denied their heavenly home?
 
What evidence are you making such a judgment by? , then God's grace is able to keep them, whether they are killed in an accident, or by a ravaging disease, or are overcome with a mental illness and die by their own tortured, demonically-influenced hand. They will be welcomed into the arms of their Lord.

Someone who commits suicide has evidence pointing in the direction of them not pulling the middle finger to God? You then compare an accident to murder?

''If they have received Jesus Christ by faith as their Saviour''...they would not commit suicide.
 
Someone who commits suicide has evidence pointing in the direction of them not pulling the middle finger to God? You then compare an accident to murder?

''If they have received Jesus Christ by faith as their Saviour''...they would not commit suicide.

That has to be the daftest statement on this thread.
As stated before, if you believe that receiving Christ as your saviour prevents suicide, you are also obliged to believe that receiving Christ as saviour prevents the commitment of any sin whatsoever.
We know from experience that true believers still sin, thus true believers can still commit suicide.
 
Someone who commits suicide has evidence pointing in the direction of them not pulling the middle finger to God? You then compare an accident to murder?

''If they have received Jesus Christ by faith as their Saviour''...they would not commit suicide.

Dying is the point. Whether by one's own deceived hand or by a disease also brought on by the enemy, who seeks to destroy believers, the soul that is saved by faith is a child of God and will be received by Him upon death, no matter what.

Christians have been known to succumb to mental illness and commit suicide. It is tragic. God doesn't judge them for it, as their sins have all been forgiven.

Your judgment is the point, here, and not God's.
 
Dying is the point. Whether by one's own deceived hand or by a disease also brought on by the enemy, who seeks to destroy believers, the soul that is saved by faith is a child of God and will be received by Him upon death, no matter what.

Christians have been known to succumb to mental illness and commit suicide. It is tragic. God doesn't judge them for it, as their sins have all been forgiven.

Your judgment is the point, here, and not God's.
Precisely this.

At this point in history, we know that in many instances suicide is the result of some form of mental / psychological illness. We also know--despite the fact that not all acknowledge this--that these illnesses are real and are not the fault of the individuals who have them.

As Christians, I'd say the majority of us would agree that physical illness is the realm of our enemy, Satan. Therefore, mental illness would fall under this category as well. Further, the foundation of Faith is not the mind, but of the heart and soul. Thereby, mental illness is (essentially--not literally, of course) a non visible form of brain cancer. It is not the core of one's being turning from God (sin), but rather an extremely heartbreaking condition which should demand our compassion if we truly claim to strive toward living in Jesus' image.

We can try to treat it, but if one is claimed by it, they are claimed by it. It's not just someone going, "I'm bored. I think I'll die today." ... It is an invisible enemy which has entered the thoughts of an individual and corroded them from the inside out. Sadly the medical knowledge we have regarding mental illness was not available (or at least presented in a way that would be comparatively expressive in today's society) in first century Israel. What we can tell from looking at Jesus' ministry during that time, however, is that not once did Jesus ever blame a single individual for any illness or infirmity that they suffered from / he healed someone from. Not Once. Do you really think that our savior is somehow incapable to recognize what has happened here? I certainly hope not, because that seems impossible.

I won't say any more on that, as I am confident that the Lord knows what is in our hearts and whether they belong to Him even if our minds are troubled with sickness. I will say, however, that when speaking about this topic words must be chosen with great care. For if saying to one "You fool" can incur the fires of Hell (which we can blessedly avoid since we would know we said it and could therefore repent of that sin) how much more dangerous could the results be should our careless words end up being the thing which triggers someone to end their own existence out of despair? Would you ever know? And should you never know, would you be able to repent? (Thoughts? That's actually rather scary, no?) And would that inability to repent be pardonable? It seems far better to choose our words wisely to begin with, leaving the question of who shall inherit heaven and hell in this complex and tragic circumstance to the judgement and wisdom of the Lord, rather than trying to pass that judgement on ourselves.

My humblest apologies if I seem harsh here, but this has such drastic ramifications for all parties involved that I cannot sugar coat what I think about it. I have lost loved ones to mental illness, but just as importantly I know of people struggling with it to this day. The thought of one of them coming across a discussion like this fills me with utter and abject horror. Can you honestly imagine the confusion and despair finding such a topic could bring forth, especially in one who is still searching to find God? I cannot speak for anyone else, but such a use of words isn't something I would want to have associated of me when God is looking at all the things I've done and said someday.
 
I don't know.... Like many things in life, there doesn't seem to me to be one neat answer you can just fit in the box.

I remember once a communication I had when I was in hospital myself. She explained depression sort of as a state where if I can paraphrase what I can remember of the words. "Everyone else gets their buzz out of coffee in the morning but I don't". I don't full understand it but it seems sort of like to all outside intents and purposes, the world should be right but it just isn't. Maybe one day I will ask her (Christian) father if I can read a longer work what was to become this persons paper (I can't remember phd or masters) on the subject and see if I can understand a little bit of what this (sufferer and looking at medical science) take on things became.

For me, I'd describe it as a state of despair when the world (what's happening) isn't going right.

One I think I can explain this way. I'd fallen in love (and got "involved") I thought but it really was lust. You believe God should give you... I think you can wind up in the serving two masters state and get torn apart.

Other times, you just hit rock bottom (and believe me, I have been on drips in hospital beds with my own problems - some say self inflicted but I don't know my own way out of drink...) . You can sort of get in the state for example "Jesus, even if I'm got out of this, I'll be thrown back in the same hole"

There are probably many others and each would have to give their own. All I personally believe is that it's been something other than myself that has kept me going. Sometimes I think it's like getting stung by a scorpion and you seeking death you can't find. Others, I think whatever, Jesus has stayed with me. It can take a while but the bad rounds end up with a sort of "Hey Jesus, I guess I'm still in it for another round..."

With others (and that other could be me next time), they can have met their last round for whatever reason.

I have (even when I've felt like doing it) been of the "cardinal sin" line of thinking. Maybe some of the time it can put you off (eg. you get somewhere even worse) but I don't know.

I think we need to try to help people out of desperate states but on the judgement - best to let Jesus be the judge?
 
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Dying is the point. Whether by one's own deceived hand or by a disease also brought on by the enemy, who seeks to destroy believers, the soul that is saved by faith is a child of God and will be received by Him upon death, no matter what.

Christians have been known to succumb to mental illness and commit suicide. It is tragic. God doesn't judge them for it, as their sins have all been forgiven.

Your judgment is the point, here, and not God's.

Agreed! Fortunately for all of us, God's grace is without prejudice. WHOSOEVER believes will be saved and will stay saved. Nowhere in the Bible does God compartmentalize sin and reserve grace only for those who commit "acceptable" sins. There simply is no such thing whatsoever.

So then, does God forgive suicide? YES HE DOES!

If the person who did suicide at some time in his life truly accepted Christ and His death on the cross for his sin debt, he is forgiven.

Rom. 8:1......
"NOW there is no condemnation to those who are in Christ".
 
That has to be the daftest statement on this thread.
As stated before, if you believe that receiving Christ as your saviour prevents suicide, you are also obliged to believe that receiving Christ as saviour prevents the commitment of any sin whatsoever.
We know from experience that true believers still sin, thus true believers can still commit suicide.

Really? True believers can murder? What church do you go to? I am daft?

After my explanation you still believe sin is sin? Murder = steal $1 from the cookie jar? Really? To push your theory requires a complete absence of brains and common sense. These are simple judgments that even the world gets mostly right.

Does your church not remove preachers guilty of mortal sins? Put them under discipline?
 
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Dying is the point. Whether by one's own deceived hand or by a disease also brought on by the enemy, who seeks to destroy believers, the soul that is saved by faith is a child of God and will be received by Him upon death, no matter what.

Christians have been known to succumb to mental illness and commit suicide. It is tragic. God doesn't judge them for it, as their sins have all been forgiven.

Your judgment is the point, here, and not God's.

I believe in OSAS from God's omniscience...which we don't have...so we can't make OSAS statements. Hence I agree with you that a truly saved person will go to heaven. My point from my first post has simply been that the evidence does NOT point (at all) to a saved person being able to take their life.

It would have to be an absolute mental illness...
 
Yes you do. Please explain how someone will accept Jesus if they love what is evil.
You quote this You dont have to love what is evil to refuse salvation
and ask this]Yes you do. Please explain how someone will accept Jesus if they love what is evil.

First of all - did I say that ? Ah No kj I did not BUT I said a person does not have to love evil to refuse Christ or His salvation.
Simple example..........A man never does bad things, lives almost a sin free life...I said almost.
But simply will not ask Jesus into His life. He spends his entire life fighting against evil but never gets around to making Christ Lord of his life......Yes there are lots of people like this.......
God Bless....here is a screen shot - I did not make it up
Screenshot_2015-08-03-04-39-47.png
 
You quote this You dont have to love what is evil to refuse salvation
and ask this]Yes you do. Please explain how someone will accept Jesus if they love what is evil.

First of all - did I say that ? Ah No kj I did not BUT I said a person does not have to love evil to refuse Christ or His salvation.
Simple example..........A man never does bad things, lives almost a sin free life...I said almost.
But simply will not ask Jesus into His life. He spends his entire life fighting against evil but never gets around to making Christ Lord of his life......Yes there are lots of people like this.......
God Bless....here is a screen shot - I did not make it up

Jim anyone who hates what is evil will find Jesus. As hating evil leads to repentance. Those people you refer to do perhaps on face value look like they are good, but scripture paints a pretty black and white scenario for all.

John 3:19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.

Rom 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Rom 12:9 Let love be genuine. Abhor what is evil; hold fast to what is good.

Matt 16:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

We draw close to God by hating what is evil. God then draws close to us James 4:8. God then judges us Jer 17:9-10. God then reveals Jesus as Lord to us 1 Cor 12:3. John 3:16 is a summary of this all but cannot be read in isolation / without grasping it is not some magical lines we need to repeat to be a Christian. Being born again does not happen without sincere repentance. Sincere repentance does not happen without a real hatred for what is evil.

Nobody who hates what is evil will reject Jesus and nobody who loves what is evil will accept Jesus. Hence your statement ''You dont have to love what is evil to refuse salvation'' = completely false. You DO!! If anyone who hates evil refuses salvation...well then God must be evil. My bible tells me that God scours the earth looking for those after His heart.
 
Please explain how someone will accept Jesus if they love what is evil.

Let's try John Newton, the author of Amazing Grace. His conversion the hymn is about was in 1748. He continued shipping slaves until he had a stroke in 1754 and even after that, he continued to support the slave trade for some years before eventually becoming an abolitionist.

Of his own life, Newton wrote "I was greatly deficient in many respects ... I cannot consider myself to have been a believer in the full sense of the word, until a considerable time afterwards."

I for one do not believe his "Amazing Grace" moment was a falsehood. What do you think?
 
I for one do not believe his "Amazing Grace" moment was a falsehood. What do you think?
Well, 1. John new to ask and 2. did thank God... meaning He had been thinking about God / God had been working on him up to this point. Many have survived crashes and not thanked God.

As for the 'continued' slave trade...I am sure there is more to it.
 
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