Isn't it a blessing when friends can agree and a plan comes together.
Daniel 9
- Thread starter AllieWi
- Start date
Isn't it a blessing when friends can agree and a plan comes together.
Ok I think I understand. I didn't realize that the person in the burning bush was called God and an Angel of The Lord.
Please excuse my ignorance, but why would Jesus be called an angel?
All good stuff and as in any Bible study, anyone can ask to go back and we can pick up some point that is relevant to you.
I will go ahead and post the next set of verses so that we can keep moving forward.
Daniel 9:20-23
King James Version (KJV)
20 And whiles I was speaking, and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the Lord my God for the holy mountain of my God;
21 Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.
22 And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.
23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.
I have been thinking about this and I really should have made some comments before beginning at Chapter #9, but it was what was requested, so for the sake of context I will try and give you some insights that maybe we should consider and then it will also bring anyone interested up to date as a kind of updating.
The first couple of verses of chapter #9 bring back history, again. Then there is a prayer of Daniel to verse 19. This is a powerful prayer of dedication to God and care for others. It is a confession of Israel's sin and then his petition to God for Israel.
It is a wonderful example of what we all need to do in our prayer life on a daily basis...IMHO.
For the next 4 verses, 20-23 there is an interface with the angel Gabriel. The rest of chapter 9 is THE very powerful prophecy of "70 weeks". Most do not understand some of the symbolism and references because of lack of knowledge of interfacing with the rest of the Bible. Most ministers, pastors, etc. are afraid to talk about these prophecies because of lack of understanding, lack of belief, or refusal to talk about end times. MOST may not be an appropriate word to use here but it is what came to my mind first.
As an insight we see in Dan. 7:14, the eternal kingdom was of God ("Ancient of Days")is brought in by the "Son of Man". From this point in Daniel and on, the book describes a delay in the arrival of God's eternal kingdom by means of the 70 weeks description.
As I tried to indicate earlier, it seems to me that the "angel of the Lord", the pre-incarnate Christ spent the night with Daniel in the lions den and it appears to me that during that night He gave Daniel the plan for humanity.
In the mean time, His people would endure severe persecution and trials even to death. In chapter 12 there is a reassurance that all suffering is temporary. All those who persevere will participate in His final victory.
It should be noted there is some concern about whether Daniel's "end of time" should be the time of the end of Antiochus Epiphanes or should refer to the "end times" as referenced in Revelation. I believe that after one studies the book of the Revelation, after having studied the book of Daniel, will clear up those concerns completely.
In verses 20-23 the angel Gabriel is sent by God to bring Daniel more revelation. Just as a side note, Gabriel is not an Arch angel.
Many assume that he is, and he may in fact be one but the Scriptures do not records him as being one on the same status as Michael.
No big deal, just info.
What a blessing this visit to Daniel was!!! He is told that he is GREATLY BELOVED! We should all strive as believers before God to be able to have those same words spoken of us. It seems to me that Daniel's great concern for God's honor and for his people must have been part of the reason why he was so dearly loved by God.
Any thought friends???????
Ohhhh ya.... I've read this and wondered about it before! I'm glad you guys are clearing this up for me. Cool.
Sorry Silk, I should have just started the study in Daniel from the beginning. I just love the prophecy stuff in 9. But chapter 2 is awesome as well. Daniel is my fave OT book.
Because He was bringing a message to Moses and the word angel in Hebrew is "Messenger".
Yea! .. I have never considered this?
"angel of the Lord", the pre-incarnate Christ spent the night with Daniel in the lions den and it appears to me that during that night He gave Daniel the plan for humanity.
Well........I really am no authority, believe me about that, but it seems to me that if the Lord is going to spend the night with Daniel, a man who he loves greatly, and they are sitting around petting kitty cats, that had to be talking about something.
This only MY opinion and I have absolutely no other Bible references so as to form a basis for support.
Wow this really is important to know geez! Cool!
No I like that you are able to get out of the religious box and that you are humble enough to admit what is not clear. You will always be a great student for the Holy Spirit
Does that help you put some things together Allie? could you explain?
No I like that you are able to get out of the religious box and that you are humble enough to admit what is not clear. You will always be a great student for the Holy Spirit
Thank you my brother. You are way to kind to me. I am just glad that at age and with my health concerns I have been able to find a way to continue to get out the Word of God over the internet.
What a blessing to know that the truth of God's Word is going out to the un-saved and even to the saved who are wanting and thirsting for knowledge.
well not "an" angel, the angel...
Look at Exodus 3:1...to see who appears...the ancient Jewish people called Him "the Word of the LORD" YHVH's manifest appearance...also Isaiah called Him "the angel of His presence" (Isaiah 63:9) and He has come many times (Micah 5:2,3) in many forms...take Genesis 32 for example....
Genesis 32:24 - “…and there a man wrestled (cleaving) with him (Jacob) until the break of day“. Please note, just the fact that Jacob is refusing to let Him go until He blesses him tells us that Jacob clearly recognized this person as being someone other than a mere man! Normally He would have been seen as a potential enemy who Jacob would be trying to apprehend or stop.
Genesis 32:27,28 – Then this same being asks “What is your shem? And he said unto Him, ‘Jacob‘. Then he says, “Your shem shall no longer be called Jacob, but Israel, for as a prince you have striven with God…” With who? Did He just say He was God? (his shem being his character and authority and reputation, not merely a name)
Genesis 32:30 tells us…”And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God ‘face to face’, and my life is preserved.
Wow! Beloved, this is powerful! Jacob struggled with God’s "Man"...the very same YHVH Abraham grasped by the ankles...one could ask how can He be God and be a man? But He is...How about Hagar the concubine, "the Angel of the Lord" appears and says, that He will bless Ishmael and will multiply his offspring. This is clearly a promise only God can make! Angels proper have no power to assure such things by their own power. In fact, in all these passages, the Angel of YHVH (YHVH present) is called God, and He does not rebuke the woman for this, while if she was in error, do you think the LORD would have let the error by example continue? If she called a mere angel “God” the angel would never have allowed it. An angel would have corrected her if that were the case, but He does not. The word then shows Hagar use the same phrase...I have seen God 'face to face' and lived...
Also the "man" who appears to Manoah and his wife is the YHVH-Malak (Angel of the Lord) who is also the I AM...and they realize it right at the end when He ascends
There are many more examples...but because of Exodus 3 the Jewish Rabbis call Him "The Angel of the Covenant" or the "face of God" (that aspect of God which He allows us to see)
Just some thoughts...
Gabriel in Daniel however is not YHVH this person...
brother Paul
Look at Exodus 3:1...to see who appears...the ancient Jewish people called Him "the Word of the LORD" YHVH's manifest appearance...also Isaiah called Him "the angel of His presence" (Isaiah 63:9) and He has come many times (Micah 5:2,3) in many forms...take Genesis 32 for example....
Genesis 32:24 - “…and there a man wrestled (cleaving) with him (Jacob) until the break of day“. Please note, just the fact that Jacob is refusing to let Him go until He blesses him tells us that Jacob clearly recognized this person as being someone other than a mere man! Normally He would have been seen as a potential enemy who Jacob would be trying to apprehend or stop.
Genesis 32:27,28 – Then this same being asks “What is your shem? And he said unto Him, ‘Jacob‘. Then he says, “Your shem shall no longer be called Jacob, but Israel, for as a prince you have striven with God…” With who? Did He just say He was God? (his shem being his character and authority and reputation, not merely a name)
Genesis 32:30 tells us…”And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God ‘face to face’, and my life is preserved.
Wow! Beloved, this is powerful! Jacob struggled with God’s "Man"...the very same YHVH Abraham grasped by the ankles...one could ask how can He be God and be a man? But He is...How about Hagar the concubine, "the Angel of the Lord" appears and says, that He will bless Ishmael and will multiply his offspring. This is clearly a promise only God can make! Angels proper have no power to assure such things by their own power. In fact, in all these passages, the Angel of YHVH (YHVH present) is called God, and He does not rebuke the woman for this, while if she was in error, do you think the LORD would have let the error by example continue? If she called a mere angel “God” the angel would never have allowed it. An angel would have corrected her if that were the case, but He does not. The word then shows Hagar use the same phrase...I have seen God 'face to face' and lived...
Also the "man" who appears to Manoah and his wife is the YHVH-Malak (Angel of the Lord) who is also the I AM...and they realize it right at the end when He ascends
There are many more examples...but because of Exodus 3 the Jewish Rabbis call Him "The Angel of the Covenant" or the "face of God" (that aspect of God which He allows us to see)
Just some thoughts...
Gabriel in Daniel however is not YHVH this person...
brother Paul
I have also heard a teaching that some relate the wisdom that the "Magi" had in regards to Our Lord and His birth ..as wisdom that had been past down to them from Daniel. The reason they knew what the Jews could not seem to grasp was because of the influence of Daniel on their "magi" system of wisdom of whatever..
Good stuff Paul!
Personally.....I love the event when Joshua is looking out over his people the night before the Battle and he sees someone walking up to him with his sword drawn and Joshua asked him......"Are thou for us or against us?"
And that man said......"Nay, but as the Captain of the host of the Lord am I now come."
That gives me duck bumps every time!!!
So you are saying that this is the "definite article" ? Can you see that from the Hebrew? I know sometimes in the Greek you can see this pretty clearly.
About the word angel meaning messenger. I mean, I knew angels are messengers but I didn't realize it wS an actual translation of the word. A also, the Jesus is Angel of The Lord. I never knew that.No I like that you are able to get out of the religious box and that you are humble enough to admit what is not clear. You will always be a great student for the Holy Spirit
Yea I think what Paul and Major have said is very biblical...But I think one should be careful to not allow this to be led into error...some would take a truth such as this and then go to this or that scripture and start trying to define this Angel or that Angel as the Lord and could confuse the truth. But what I have heard is very solid biblical reading
I have read that also and it make a lot of sense to me..
When we consider the words of Nebuchadnezzar's comment when he looked into the fiery furnace........
"He answered and said, Lo I see four men loose walking in the midst of the fire and they have no hurt and the form of the fourth is like the son of God".
Yes, I am aware that the king could have been saying...."a son of the gods". But to me, the fact that the king knew to say "SON' of God implies that old Daniel had been talking to the king about the Lord and the Lords, SON.
Then we also know that the Wise men came from the east. East of Bethlehem would be Babylon.
Those wise men knew to bring frankincense, gold and myrrh. How did the wise men know to bring these items UNLESS ole Daniel had been teaching them in Babylon?
1. GOLD = Wealth, royal Kingly status.
2. FRANKINCENSE = The Divinity of Jesus.
3. MYRRH = Death and burial.
Thus, the gifts came to show the baby Jesus as King, God, and Man.
Allie......what Mitspa said in #197 is very, very correct. In fact Paul wrote to the church in Galatia and warned them that they were not to worship angels in any way whatsoever.
We live in a day where angel worship is prevalent and we must always be on guard not to worship an angel.
In fact the Greek LXX brings this out more clearly but this is also how the Jews understood it (see the Targums) and Hebrew was their natural language...the Angel of the Lord in Exodus 3 says later on He is called "I AM that I AM"....is this not YHVH?