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Daniel 9

Discussion in 'Bible Study' started by AllieWi, Mar 17, 2014.

  1. Can we do a study in Daniel 9? I'm curious why the Jewish people cannot see it is obvious that Jesus is described on this chapter. Does anyone know what they say about this prophecy specifically? I'm always wondering about how Jews reconcile these prophecies in their minds and reject Jesus messiah---

    Or is it better not to concern myself? I feel like if I know why, then I can defend the faith if I ever get into a conversation with a Jewish person.
  2. “A period of seventy sets of seven has been decreed for your people and your holy city to finish their rebellion, to put an end to their sin, to atone for their guilt, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to confirm the prophetic vision, and to anoint the Most Holy Place. Now listen and understand! Seven sets of seven plus sixty-two sets of seven will pass from the time the command is given to rebuild Jerusalem until a ruler—the Anointed One —comes. Jerusalem will be rebuilt with streets and strong defenses, despite the perilous times. “After this period of sixty-two sets of seven, the Anointed One will be killed, appearing to have accomplished nothing, and a ruler will arise whose armies will destroy the city and the Temple. The end will come with a flood, and war and its miseries are decreed from that time to the very end. The ruler will make a treaty with the people for a period of one set of seven, but after half this time, he will put an end to the sacrifices and offerings. And as a climax to all his terrible deeds, he will set up a sacrilegious object that causes desecration, until the fate decreed for this defiler is finally poured out on him.” (Daniel 9:24-27 NLT)

    Is this translation ok?

    I wonder what the Hebrew bible or whatever Jewish people read-- does it differ at al?
  3. Ok this is from the orthodox Jewish bible

    Shivi'im heptads is decreed upon thy people and upon thy Ir Kodesh (Holy City), to restrain the peysha (transgression), and to make an end of chattat (sin), and to make kapporah for avon, and to bring in Tzedek Olamim (Everlasting Righteousness), and to seal up the chazon and navi, and to anoint the Kodesh HaKodashim. Have da'as, therefore, and get seichel, that from the going forth of the decree to restore and to rebuild Yerushalayim unto Moshiach Nagid shall be shivah heptads, and threescore and two heptads; the rechov shall be built again, and the charutz, even in troublous times. And after threescore and two heptads, yikaret (will be cut off) Moshiach [Yeshayah 53:8], but not for himself [Yeshayah 53:4-6,8]; and the troops of the coming nagid shall destroy the Ir and the Kodesh (Beis Hamikdash, i.e., 70.C.E.); and the end thereof shall come with a flood, and unto the end there shall be war. Desolations are determined. And he shall confirm brit (covenant) with rabbim for one heptad; and in the midst of the heptad he shall cause the zevach and the minchah to cease, and on the kenaf (wing) of the abominations is one making desolate, even until the complete destruction, a destruction that is decreed, shall be poured out upon the Shomem (Desolator, Destroyer). (Daniel 9:24-27 OJB)
  4. It's exactly what happened!! Jesus is Moshiach! I do not understand. Although I understand scripture speaks of Jewish people being blinded, correct?

    Also-- does anyone know cool information about the timeline described here and end times?
  5. Well this verse is often sited for the 1st coming and the second coming of Christ. The peace treaty that last only 1/2 of the 7 year time.
  6. Well lets put it this way, there are 14 million Jews Approx.
    There are 2 billion Christians Approx.
    There are 1.7 billion Muslims Approx.

    At one time we were all Jews.. So 14 million to 2 billions is pennies,

    in every case of 10 people there 4/10 that dont believe.

    So, at one time i would say they were ALOT of Jews, When Jesus came Those people were so stuck on their faith that they didnt care what anyone said, they never believe what anyone said.
    But their friends might have believe. But not everyone will.

    So they were 100 Jews, when Jesus came, 85 of them believed and went on to believe in Jesus, but the other 15 stayed STRONG about their faith " Although they mistakenly did it " and so on those 15, had families , and their kids had kids, all these generations of kids believed what those original 15 did was right. They dont question their parents beliefs.

    So those 15 turned into 14 million as of today (15 is a figuratively speaking number)

    Those 14 million CANT believe Jesus is a messiah no matter what Anyone or any book says, They were BORN believing he is not, BUT what they dont know is that there ancestors were part of the wrong 15 people who decided not to believe.

    Now their neighbors might be CHRISTIANS, but they have no idea that those christians ancestors were once FRIENDS with those original 15 jews, and was part of the 85 people who WERE JEWS then believed....

    --This is not the case for just JEWS, but for everything in life

    Where 2000 years ago or 20 years ago, people have to say, "Well, WHO KNOWS WHAT COULD OF REALLY HAPPENED"

    Maybe i am wrong, but, MY theory sounds legit, because, All should have converted if they believed in their own books, and IF SOME PEOPLE DIDNT convert, its because they chose not to believe, and they dont know that what they did caused millions in the Future (today) to believe...

    Hope you get the point :)
  7. you know whats weird, Muslims believe he is the Messiah, just like this passage says..

    "Seventy weeks are determined for your people and for your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sins, to make reconciliation for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy. [25] Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the command to restore and build Jerusalem until Messiah the Prince, there shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks; the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublesome times. [26] And after the sixty-two weeks Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself; And the people of the prince who is to come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end of it shall be with a flood, and till the end of the war desolations are determined. [27] Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; but in the middle of the week he shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate, even until the consummation, which is determined, is poured out on the desolate," (Dan. 9:24-27, NKJV).

    But WHO, and WHY did they say The Messiah was also God..

    How can someone just change scripture and add whatever they want, NO BODY during Jesus times, preached he was God, or taught of him to be god...


    So who ever follows Jesus as god, KNOW that you are following a tradition that was placed after Jesus died, and what people THOUGHT he did for us..

  8. Not really ---did you post on the right thread?
  9. Im pretty sure i did o_O

    But just explainig why i think some jews never continued with christianity
  10. Ok - well it didn't make a lot of sense to me. But as far as why the Jews didn't accept Christ. In the OT both the 1st and 2nd coming were prophesized without any clue that this was what was being said. They wanted the 2nd coming of Christ - the warrior - not the 1st.
    AllieWi likes this.

  11. Ya I get that, And im saying they SHOULD of believed in him, I was explaining WHY some people didnt..

    Because in ANY case, like this one, there will always be those group of people who decide not to follow everyone or just carry on doing what they believe, and those people had kids and so on, thats where the little number of Jews that are still here today come from..

    From that little group of people who didnt follow
  12. Anoint the Most Holy = God
  13. The Jews are looking for a man, not God. The Anointed One (Christ) is a title given to a man that can bring peace to the world. At the time of Christ there was a great division about whether the Anointed One would come and if he did would he be the son of David (like a king with an army) or like the son of Joseph (the suffering one). Even in Jesus' day He found against the Pharisees, who are the biggest sect of Judaism today, called Rabbinical. They hold tradition above what is written, that's how they can ignore passages like this one and Isaiah 53. A Jew, if he studies Isaiah 52-54 will conclude that Jesus is the Messiah. They are waiting for a Godly man, not God as Man. They won't follow the criteria of the scriptures to determine if he's the Messiah, only oral tradition. Remember Fiddler on the Roof? "TRADITION!" It doesn't help that "Christians" have persecuted them for killing Jesus so they're not quite willing to accept anything we say because they've been very persecuted for thousands of years and can only rely on themselves. They dread 9 Av because it's a cursed day for them. Here's a list of events: http://abdicate.net/av.aspx
    AllieWi likes this.
  14. Sorry I forgot about this thread..geez allie..(shakes head;-))

    This makes sense and thank you for the info-- I heard in a sermon (a revelation study) that the Jews were expecting the "second-coming Jesus" meaning, the OT prophecies which speak of a reigning King is Jesus after he was crucified. And that's who they were expecting-- not a humble poor guy from Nazareth.
  15. That is why, IMO, one has to be very careful about prophecy. Because there was no definition between the two comings until after the crucifixtion. Common sense should tell us why this is so. Think about it - would you want to live in the time of the first coming? Three years of preaching as opposed to a 1,000 year reign? Things happen and they confuse us. Taking the mark of the beast, for instance is not defined, - other than on the forehead or the hand. Worldwide - tatoos flourish as never before in the history of man. And I am not saying tatoos are the "mark" - what I am saying is when it is finally offered, I believe we will know, simply because we will not be able to trade or work without it.
    And I think it is very good to discuss these prophecies, maybe especially Daniel's, so that we can keep it all in mind. And I would like to hear what people have to say about this verse in regards to 1st and 2nd comings and what the context was.
    AllieWi likes this.
  16. That's scary:( about the mark. I hope we are gone before that happens. Lol.
  17. This is indeed why the Scriptures says:

    2 Peter 1:20 (KJV)
    Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

    If, living before Jesus' arrival, one had asked where would the Messiah be from according to the Scriptures, I could say, Egypt, Nazareth or Bethlehem, and I'd be correct on all counts. We know this because of the New Testament. But before the revelation, just as today, back then they would have been adamant that the Messiah "would NEVER come from Egypt! Heretic!" Others would say "Oh you're part of THAT denomination! You're WRONG!!! He's the Son of David for He MUST come from Bethlehem!" Any of this sound familiar? :D
    AllieWi likes this.
  18. right about tradition
    remember from the movie
    "somewhere there is a chicken and a man"
    said by the father when his thoughts on the bible where challenged

    do traditions look for chickens and not what the story is really about?
    AllieWi likes this.
  19. Certainly. The truth is hard to swallow. When you find an issue where someone hasn't done their own homework and caught up in their own events, they have a hard time with the scriptures.
    AllieWi likes this.
  20. Correct! They were determined to have a Messiah that would ride into town and run our all of the Romans. They never considered a baby.
    AllieWi and Silk say Amen and like this.

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