In Proverbs 30:4 we read "Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?"
Daniel 9
- Thread starter AllieWi
- Start date
True and in fact angels never accept worship in the Bible...but this YHVH-Malak does receive worship and not rebuke...so either He is God or the devil (God forbid)....
Daniel 9:20-24
"20 While I was speaking and praying, confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel and making my request to the Lord my God for his holy hill— 21 while I was still in prayer, Gabriel, the man I had seen in the earlier vision, came to me in swift flight about the time of the evening sacrifice. 22 He instructed me and said to me,
“Daniel, I have now come to give you insight and understanding. 23 As soon as you began to pray, a word went out, which I have come to tell you, for you are highly esteemed. Therefore, consider the word and understand the vision:
24 “Seventy ‘sevens’ are decreed for your people and your holy city to
a) finish transgression,
b) to put an end to sin,
c) to atone for wickedness,
d) to bring in everlasting righteousness,
e) to seal up vision
f) and prophecy
g) and to anoint the Most Holy Place."
Let's talk....
"20 While I was speaking and praying, confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel and making my request to the Lord my God for his holy hill— 21 while I was still in prayer, Gabriel, the man I had seen in the earlier vision, came to me in swift flight about the time of the evening sacrifice. 22 He instructed me and said to me,
“Daniel, I have now come to give you insight and understanding. 23 As soon as you began to pray, a word went out, which I have come to tell you, for you are highly esteemed. Therefore, consider the word and understand the vision:
24 “Seventy ‘sevens’ are decreed for your people and your holy city to
a) finish transgression,
b) to put an end to sin,
c) to atone for wickedness,
d) to bring in everlasting righteousness,
e) to seal up vision
f) and prophecy
g) and to anoint the Most Holy Place."
Let's talk....
A. The Starting Point of the Seventy Sevens - Daniel 9:25a Know therefore and discern, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem. As already stated in verse 24, the program of the Seventy Sevens not only concerns the Jewish people, but also the Jewish city of Jerusalem. Now Daniel is told that the Seventy Sevens will begin with a decree, one that involves the rebuilding of Jerusalem. The question is, “Which decree is this verse speaking about?” There are four possibilities usually given.
1. Four Possibilities a. The Decree of Cyrus The first possibility is the decree of Cyrus that was passed in 538-537 B.C. It is found in II Chronicles 36:22-23; Ezra 1:1-4; and 6:1-5.
Insofar as these three passages speak of it, it concerns the rebuilding of the Temple, but does not actually mention the rebuilding of the city of Jerusalem.
b. The Decree of Darius Hystapus The second possibility is the decree of Darius Hystapus passed in 521 B.C. and spoken of in Ezra 6:6-12. This is a reaffirmation of the Cyrus decree and also concerns the rebuilding of the Temple.
c. The Decree of Artaxerxes to Ezra The third possibility is the decree of Artaxerxes to Ezra given in 458 B.C. and mentioned in Ezra 7:11-26. In this decree, permission is given to proceed with the Temple service, and it concerns only the Temple service.
d. The Decree of Artaxerxes to Nehemiah The fourth possibility is the decree of Artaxerxes to Nehemiah that was passed in 444-443 B.C. and spoken of in Nehemiah 2:1-8. In its context, it is speaking about the rebuilding of the walls.
2. Two Valid Options Although all of them in some way or another did contribute to the building of Jerusalem, only two are valid options: the first decree and the fourth decree. The first decree is the decree of Cyrus; the fourth decree is the decree of Artaxerxes to Nehemiah.
a. The Decree of Artaxerxes to Nehemiah Most evangelical scholars today believe that the decree of which Daniel is speaking is the decree of Artaxerxes to Nehemiah. This was first popularized by Sir Robert Anderson, who wrote a book called “The Coming Prince.” Using a formula, he figured out carefully by counting off the number of years beginning with the decree of Artaxerxes to Nehemiah and terminating the 483 year period to the coming of the Messiah with the Triumphal Entry in A.D. 32. According to Sir Robert Anderson, this period stretched from March 14, 445 B.C. until April 6, A.D. 32.
However, Sir Robert Anderson made a few miscalculations. In light of the time of the Passover occurrences, it was impossible for the Crucifixion to have occurred in A.D. 32. Insofar as when the Passover occurred, there are only two options in that time span, and these would be A.D. 30 and 33. Later, Dr. Harold Horner wrote a book that corrected Sir Robert Anderson's miscalculations, and he, too, begins with the decree of Artaxerxes to Nehemiah, beginning with March 4, 444 B.C. and terminating also with the Triumphal Entry on March 29, A.D. 33.
There are three problems with taking the decree found in Nehemiah to be the starting point. The first problem is that nothing in the Daniel passage requires the first sixty nine sevens to end with the Triumphal Entry . It only requires the period to end with the appearance of the Messiah at the First Coming. It is preferable to terminate the first sixty nine sevens with the birth of the Messiah rather than the Triumphal Entry . The second problem with the Artaxerxes-to-Nehemiah decree is that it is not really a decree. If Nehemiah 2:1-8 is read carefully , there is no decree. Instead, it only grants permission for Nehemiah to rebuild the walls. Building on the second problem, the third problem is that rebuilding the walls is not exactly the same as actually rebuilding the city .
b. The Decree of Cyrus There are five reasons validating the view that the decree of which Daniel is speaking is the decree of Cyrus. The first reason is that this is a real decree; it is actually in the form of a decree.
The second reason is that this is the one given the same year as the vision of the Seventy Sevens. The year Daniel received the Seventy Sevens vision was the same year that Cyrus passed his decree.
The third reason is that this is the decree that is emphasized in Scripture. It was spoken of prophetically by Isaiah about 150 years before it happened (Is. 44:28-45:1, 13). In fact, Isaiah actually named Cyrus as the person who would issue this decree at least 150 years before it ever occurred. His prophecy is recorded in fulfillment four times: II Chronicles 36:22-23; Ezra 1:1-4; 6:1-5; and 6:6-12. This is clearly the decree that is emphasized in Scripture.
The fourth reason is that the decree of Cyrus did include the rebuilding of the city. It is true that the four passages mentioned earlier did not actually mention the rebuilding of the city , only the rebuilding of the Temple. However, if Isaiah's prophecies are taken literally , it would have included the rebuilding of the city. For example, Isaiah 44:28 and 45:13 clearly mentions that Cyrus would not only allow the Temple to be rebuilt, he would also allow the city to be rebuilt. Of course, it is silly to think Cyrus would allow the Temple to be rebuilt and then forbid anyone to live anywhere near the Temple by not allowing the city to be rebuilt as well.
The fifth reason that the Cyrus decree is the one of which Daniel speaks is because it is clear from parallel passages that the Jews did rebuild the city. In fact, they rebuilt the city before Nehemiah ever came to rebuild the walls. In Haggai 1:2-4, the Jews were already living in private homes in Jerusalem seventy years before Nehemiah arrived, even though the Temple itself had not as yet been rebuilt. Certainly they would not dare to rebuild Jerusalem if they did not have permission to do so. According to Ezra 4:12, the city was being built even in Ezra's day, and he preceded the time of Nehemiah.
It is not possible within the scope of this manuscript to deal with the details and problems of Persian chronology. For those interested in
these details, a highly recommended work is by Dr. David L. Cooper titled, “The Seventy Weeks of Daniel.” Dr. Cooper shows how the Seventy Sevens can begin with the decree of Cyrus and it still works out to the time of the birth of the Messiah. Thus, the first 483 years–the first sixty nine sevens–terminated with the birth of Yeshua.
http://www.ariel.org/mbsnit.htm
What about verse 24 which continues the thought of 23? Is this not also significant?
24 “Seventy ‘sevens’ are decreed for your people and your holy city to
a) finish transgression,
b) to put an end to sin,
c) to atone for wickedness,
d) to bring in everlasting righteousness,
e) to seal up vision
f) and prophecy
g) and to anoint the Most Holy Place."
What was Daniel being told? Are these all fulfilled in the Christ events? Were some preceding? Are some yet future? Has vision and prophecy been sealed up?
brother Paul
24 “Seventy ‘sevens’ are decreed for your people and your holy city to
a) finish transgression,
b) to put an end to sin,
c) to atone for wickedness,
d) to bring in everlasting righteousness,
e) to seal up vision
f) and prophecy
g) and to anoint the Most Holy Place."
What was Daniel being told? Are these all fulfilled in the Christ events? Were some preceding? Are some yet future? Has vision and prophecy been sealed up?
brother Paul
B. The First Sixty-Nine Sevens - Daniel 9:25b unto the anointed one, the prince, shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: it shall be built again, with street and moat, even in troublous times. The program of the Seventy Sevens is then subdivided into three units: seven sevens, sixty two sevens, and one seven. The first sixty nine sevens is a combination of the first two subdivisions: the seven sevens and the sixty two sevens.
1. The Seven Sevens or Forty-Nine Years The first subdivision is seven weeks or seven sevens, which is a total of forty nine years. This refers to the forty-nine year period that it took to rebuild Jerusalem. In regard to the rebuilding of Jerusalem, it speaks of the city as being built again, with street and moat, even in troublous times. The first subdivision of the Seventy Sevens, then, is the seven sevens or forty-nine years during which time Jerusalem was rebuilt. Only after forty-nine years was the rebuilding process brought to completion.
2. The Sixty-Two Sevens or Four Hundred Thirty-Four Years The second subdivision of the Seventy Sevens is threescore and two weeks or sixty-two sevens, comprising a total of 434 years. Insofar as this passage is concerned, there was no break between the first and the second subdivisions of the Seventy Sevens. The sixty-two sevens immediately followed the seven sevens, or the 434 years immediately followed the forty-nine years. Combining seven sevens and sixty-two sevens gives a total of sixty-nine sevens; or combining forty-nine years with 434 years gives a total of 483 years. A total of 483 years will transpire from the time that the decree is issued until the coming of the Messiah, the prince. Hence, the first 483 years of the 490-year period comes to an end with the First Coming of the Messiah.
The expression: unto the anointed one, the prince, does not point towards a Triumphal Entry but only points toward His appearance. Thus, the reference is to His birth, not to His Triumphal Entry. From the decree to rebuild Jerusalem to the birth of Yeshua would be a total of 483 years. Regardless of whether you take the decree to be that of Cyrus or the decree of Artaxerxes to Nehemiah, the first sixty nine sevens must come to a completion before the year A.D. 70.
C. The Events Between the Sixty-Ninth and the Seventieth Sevens - Daniel 9:26 And after the threescore and two weeks shall the anointed one be cut off, and shall have nothing: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and even unto the end shall be war; desolations are determined.
MBS 067
1. The Seven Sevens or Forty-Nine Years The first subdivision is seven weeks or seven sevens, which is a total of forty nine years. This refers to the forty-nine year period that it took to rebuild Jerusalem. In regard to the rebuilding of Jerusalem, it speaks of the city as being built again, with street and moat, even in troublous times. The first subdivision of the Seventy Sevens, then, is the seven sevens or forty-nine years during which time Jerusalem was rebuilt. Only after forty-nine years was the rebuilding process brought to completion.
2. The Sixty-Two Sevens or Four Hundred Thirty-Four Years The second subdivision of the Seventy Sevens is threescore and two weeks or sixty-two sevens, comprising a total of 434 years. Insofar as this passage is concerned, there was no break between the first and the second subdivisions of the Seventy Sevens. The sixty-two sevens immediately followed the seven sevens, or the 434 years immediately followed the forty-nine years. Combining seven sevens and sixty-two sevens gives a total of sixty-nine sevens; or combining forty-nine years with 434 years gives a total of 483 years. A total of 483 years will transpire from the time that the decree is issued until the coming of the Messiah, the prince. Hence, the first 483 years of the 490-year period comes to an end with the First Coming of the Messiah.
The expression: unto the anointed one, the prince, does not point towards a Triumphal Entry but only points toward His appearance. Thus, the reference is to His birth, not to His Triumphal Entry. From the decree to rebuild Jerusalem to the birth of Yeshua would be a total of 483 years. Regardless of whether you take the decree to be that of Cyrus or the decree of Artaxerxes to Nehemiah, the first sixty nine sevens must come to a completion before the year A.D. 70.
C. The Events Between the Sixty-Ninth and the Seventieth Sevens - Daniel 9:26 And after the threescore and two weeks shall the anointed one be cut off, and shall have nothing: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and even unto the end shall be war; desolations are determined.
MBS 067
Your math is in error:
Mar 4, 444 BC is 1 Adar II, 3317
Mar 29, 33 AD is 9 Nisan 3793
3793-3317=476 years... you're short by 7 years.
March 14, 445 B.C. is 2 Nisan 3316
April 6, A.D. 32 is 6 Nisan 3792
3792-3316=476 years... still short 7 years.
This is the correct dates according to Erza:
Artaxerxes' order...
Creation Year: 3520
Jewish Year: 3304
Western Year: 457 BC
In 483 years and 13 days, Jesus is "cut off" (Daniel 9:26) in the Jewish year 3787.
**From here one we'll count the years to Christ's "cut off", His death.
Order given to Ezra to rebuild the city and establish a government (which is different than that of Cyrus which was to rebuild the temple), this is the year of the fulfillment of Daniel's prophecy and the start of that same prophecy concerning the Messiah, Daniel 9:25-27.
This happened 1 Nisan 3304 (Mar 26, 457 BC)
When dealing with this type of study, you cannot rely on one verse, but must take into account all verses and Ezra explains he left without Nehemiah. The prophecy is to rebuild the city not the temple. Cyrus' decree occurred in when he took Babylon.
Cyrus Takes Babylon...
Creation Year: 3439
Jewish Year: 3223
Western Year: 538 BC
Also everyone assumes the accepted death of Jesus as somewhere between 30AD and 34AD but those dates are too far away. Jesus died in 9 Apr 27AD according to those in power in Luke 3, His birth date, Herod's death, and the 1000-year day cycle. The history books got it wrong. Even the monk who declared year zero was said to be wrong by Pope Benedict XVI (http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...-was-born-several-years-earlier-than-thought/ 11-21-2012).
I wrote my study in 2010.
Jesus is born 15 Tishri 3755...
Creation Year: 3970
Jewish Year: 3755
Western Year: 7 BC
Jesus dies 14 Nisan 3787...
The Saviour died for us, Matthew 27:50.
14 Nisan 3787 (9 April 27 AD), Jesus Died at the age of 32 and 5 month 28 days. (He would have been 33 in another 7 months.)
15 Tishri 3755 + 30 years (Luke 3:23) = 3785
Birthday: 15 Tishri 3785 Jesus was 30
Passover: 14 Nisan 3785 Jesus was 30 - John 2:23
Birthday: 15 Tishri 3786 Jesus was 31
Passover: 14 Nisan 3786 Jesus was 31 - John 6:4
Birthday: 15 Tishri 3787 Jesus was 32
Finally, Jesus becomes our Passover Lamb! John 11:55
3 days and 3 nights in the heart of the Earth Matthew 12:40
On the third day He rose from the dead, I Corinthians 15:4-6.
After being seen by over 500 people after His death, and telling them that the time of coming of the Kingdom was not theirs to know, He ascended to heaven, Acts 1:6-11
There is controversy over the 70th week and this undoubtedly is where this is going to get messy so I pray be patient with one another and not too dogmatic. As for the 69 weeks, the truth is some take the counting from the first decree and others from the final decree (we in truth WE really do not know) so try to not get too hung up on the arguing over the specific years, but we can tell from scripture and history that their were people anticipating His appearance. We also see in John (unlike the three synoptics) 3 and 1/2 years of ministry (that could be a half week)...,and we do know the siege against Jerusalem from 67 though 70 A.D. is a 3 1/2 year period within those years (so maybe) and dispensationalists of course take the 70th to be the 7 year trib period...some others see 3 1/2 years of Anti-Christ and then Messiah comes and so on...
So this section (from 24 on) will be controversial...
I agree more with interjoy here...but in my next post I hope only to show there was anticipation in Israel at the end of the 69 weeks of years...many had been counting down the years...
brother Paul
So this section (from 24 on) will be controversial...
I agree more with interjoy here...but in my next post I hope only to show there was anticipation in Israel at the end of the 69 weeks of years...many had been counting down the years...
brother Paul
I believe there were watchers in Israel counting down the weeks of years...
About 100 A.D. we hear in the writings of the “Sons of Zadok” in Qumran (the Dead Sea group), in the Testament of Simeon, reflecting early pre-Christian “traditions” in Israel, we read:
“Then the Mighty One of Israel (Isaiah 9:6)* shall glorify Shem. For the Lord God shall appear on Earth and Himself save men…God has taken a body, and eaten with men, and saved men, …be not lifted up against these two, for from them shall arise unto you the Salvation (Yeshuah) of God. For the Lord shall raise up, as it were…a High Priest, and…a King, God and man, and He shall save the Gentiles, and the people of Israel.“
And in the Testament of Joseph they write:
“And I saw that from Judah was born a virgin wearing a linen garment, and from her was born a lamb without spot(a clear reference to an appropriate sacrificial lamb)…because of Him angels and men rejoiced, and all the land…these things shall come to pass…in the last days…the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world(a reference to the Lamb of Atonement), one who will save all the gentiles and Israel…His Kingdom shall be an everlasting Kingdom and shall not pass away
About half of a century later in The Psalms of Solomon, Chapter 11, one writer says:
“Blow the Shofar in Zion, to summon the Saints, and to cause you to be heard in Jerusalem, the voice of him that brings good tidings. For God has pity on Israel in visiting them.”
And again in Chapter 13 it reads:
“For he corrects the righteous as a beloved son, and his chastisement is that of a firstborn.“
Note the pertinent themes:
a) God is going to visit Israel
b) this son is the bearer of good news; the New Covenant of grace,
c) He will be the true teacher of Righteousness (God’s)
d) He would be as a son, as the firstborn perhaps of a new order (Proverbs 30:4; Isaiah 9:6)
e) Finally, this son would be chastised (tying Him to Isaiah 53 and Zechariah 12:10)
Finally in Scroll 4Q246 they directly refer to that Messiah as the “Son of God“, and as the “Son of the Most High“, before Y’shua/Jesus claims these titles for Himself. All these symbols and associations are consistent with the person and activities of only one man in history and that man is Jesus of Nazareth.
I believe the men of this Qumran society saw the coming Messiah’s time as “a time of visitation“ just as described by Y’shua and by those who witnessed Him just prior to His birth, and the announcement of His office, the counting down by the religious “watchers“ of Israel was about to reach the apex, the fulfillment of their hope was about to appear and they knew it! The "time of visitation" was approaching, and some in Israel were anticipating it with eagerness!
In the first two chapters of the gospel account collected by Luke the physician, the faithful student and fellow co-worker of Paul, provides us with testimony-like profiles from four sources that indicate the general air of anticipation and expectation of this coming one of Daniel.
Besides the angelic annunciation and proclamation of His coming to the Shepherds who were in the field, to Mary herself, to Joseph, and to Zacharias the Priest, we see the witness of the coming one, the Son given, with the leap of the baby John, who would be called the Baptist, in the womb of Elizabeth.
Then there was the prophetic testimony of Anna in the Temple regarding the Prophet spoken of by Moses, and of God having visited His people (the time of visitation). We see another witness in the testimony of the wise old Simeon, a righteous one, who prayerfully and steadfastly had waited in the Temple until he beheld the consolation of Israel (Messiah). It was Simeon who lifts Him up to the Lord declaring the baby Y’shua/Jesus to be God’s very Salvation.
Then we hear that the very heavens bore witness, all the way as far as the east, of this special tabernacling of God with His people. The King of all the earth was about to be born, and even eastern Magoi came forth and worshipped Him (taking up to 2 years to arrive). The signs of the times had informed them that the prophesied King of Israel was about to be born. As Magoi, they most likely would have been familiar with the prophecies of Balaam, and of Daniel who centuries before had been their leader.
The Lord bless...
brother Paul
About 100 A.D. we hear in the writings of the “Sons of Zadok” in Qumran (the Dead Sea group), in the Testament of Simeon, reflecting early pre-Christian “traditions” in Israel, we read:
“Then the Mighty One of Israel (Isaiah 9:6)* shall glorify Shem. For the Lord God shall appear on Earth and Himself save men…God has taken a body, and eaten with men, and saved men, …be not lifted up against these two, for from them shall arise unto you the Salvation (Yeshuah) of God. For the Lord shall raise up, as it were…a High Priest, and…a King, God and man, and He shall save the Gentiles, and the people of Israel.“
And in the Testament of Joseph they write:
“And I saw that from Judah was born a virgin wearing a linen garment, and from her was born a lamb without spot(a clear reference to an appropriate sacrificial lamb)…because of Him angels and men rejoiced, and all the land…these things shall come to pass…in the last days…the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world(a reference to the Lamb of Atonement), one who will save all the gentiles and Israel…His Kingdom shall be an everlasting Kingdom and shall not pass away
About half of a century later in The Psalms of Solomon, Chapter 11, one writer says:
“Blow the Shofar in Zion, to summon the Saints, and to cause you to be heard in Jerusalem, the voice of him that brings good tidings. For God has pity on Israel in visiting them.”
And again in Chapter 13 it reads:
“For he corrects the righteous as a beloved son, and his chastisement is that of a firstborn.“
Note the pertinent themes:
a) God is going to visit Israel
b) this son is the bearer of good news; the New Covenant of grace,
c) He will be the true teacher of Righteousness (God’s)
d) He would be as a son, as the firstborn perhaps of a new order (Proverbs 30:4; Isaiah 9:6)
e) Finally, this son would be chastised (tying Him to Isaiah 53 and Zechariah 12:10)
Finally in Scroll 4Q246 they directly refer to that Messiah as the “Son of God“, and as the “Son of the Most High“, before Y’shua/Jesus claims these titles for Himself. All these symbols and associations are consistent with the person and activities of only one man in history and that man is Jesus of Nazareth.
I believe the men of this Qumran society saw the coming Messiah’s time as “a time of visitation“ just as described by Y’shua and by those who witnessed Him just prior to His birth, and the announcement of His office, the counting down by the religious “watchers“ of Israel was about to reach the apex, the fulfillment of their hope was about to appear and they knew it! The "time of visitation" was approaching, and some in Israel were anticipating it with eagerness!
In the first two chapters of the gospel account collected by Luke the physician, the faithful student and fellow co-worker of Paul, provides us with testimony-like profiles from four sources that indicate the general air of anticipation and expectation of this coming one of Daniel.
Besides the angelic annunciation and proclamation of His coming to the Shepherds who were in the field, to Mary herself, to Joseph, and to Zacharias the Priest, we see the witness of the coming one, the Son given, with the leap of the baby John, who would be called the Baptist, in the womb of Elizabeth.
Then there was the prophetic testimony of Anna in the Temple regarding the Prophet spoken of by Moses, and of God having visited His people (the time of visitation). We see another witness in the testimony of the wise old Simeon, a righteous one, who prayerfully and steadfastly had waited in the Temple until he beheld the consolation of Israel (Messiah). It was Simeon who lifts Him up to the Lord declaring the baby Y’shua/Jesus to be God’s very Salvation.
Then we hear that the very heavens bore witness, all the way as far as the east, of this special tabernacling of God with His people. The King of all the earth was about to be born, and even eastern Magoi came forth and worshipped Him (taking up to 2 years to arrive). The signs of the times had informed them that the prophesied King of Israel was about to be born. As Magoi, they most likely would have been familiar with the prophecies of Balaam, and of Daniel who centuries before had been their leader.
The Lord bless...
brother Paul
a couple or some side notes
Daniel in the lions den
IF ONE THINKS UPON THIS ;
Daniel was already out of the lions den
for the lion was Babylon
and this takes place in medo-persia ; the bear
the bear is sees it end in the story of the ram and goat
as we see the rise and introduction of Alexander the great
wings
we heard of the removal of the wings of the lion
and the bear was given no wings unto itself
but Alexander the leopard has wings
and wings are controlled by fallen angels
Alexander (imo) is the Antichrist
was --------Alexander
is not --------------------------- is not in the time of Rome
will come again ---- from where?
north and south
Alexander dies and his kingdom is divided among four
and time moves into the revolt of the Maccabees
Antiochus Epiphanes ; the north
Egypt ; the south
during this ; we get the clues of the coming antichrist
as pigs blood is poured on the temple altar
and time moves forward to the time of
is not --ROME
ROME is also the time when Jesus lives on this earth
and we hear him speak of things to come
was -past
is not - the time of Rome
will come again --- later ; after Rome
Rome is said to be ....
not the husband of the women who had five husbands
the eagle of Esdras 2 ( ww-2 for much of this story)
i hope we continue Daniel to get the rest of this story
for we need to put
"the writing on the wall"
with
"the seventy -sevens"
with
"the ram and the goat"
with
"the king of the north and south "
as well as the
"man on this side of the river and the man on the far side of the river "
etc
the book of Daniel has these small stories ( chapters )
but these chapter make the story of Daniel
when they are put together
i am enjoying this topic --- good stuff
Paul is very correct. I can tell you right now that there will be confrontational conversation when we get to it so please.......act accordingly so that the lack of civility does not cause this thread to be closed. A lot of people have said that it is a blessing to them.
Please do not think that you (whoever it may be) have all the answers and everyone else needs to be informed.
None of us know and all we can do is give our best thoughts !
We all know how to copy and past Mr. Joy. Do YOU personally have in input on this subject????
Some.
Really good point...did I say Micah? I meant Dan and maybe Balaam
No you didn't mention Micah, I did. The wise men had the book of Daniel and many at the court of Babylon became believers due to Daniel's ministry (not too far a stretch to believe) and they would've as you mentioned been some who undoubtedly counted these years.
Delicious
You don't "know" what the wise men had or did not have...