Tongues And Prophecy - Benefit For Whom?

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Here's something I would like to throw into this cake mix,

And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? Act 2:7

We know from history that Galilaeans had a strange accent, kinda like Major and his southern ya'al (California version of y'all), so what do you think?

The Holy Spirit supernaturally caused the disciples to speak in an unknown (to them) language, but in the perfection of language didn't take away their accent?

Or maybe they were speaking their native dialect and those that were hearing them heard it in their own native language and hence the question of the accent?

:D:D:D:D:D:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

Blessings,

Gene
 
Trust me, those that don't want it won't get it... why would God give a gift that's only going to be refused... ;)
Yeah, I've been one of those who just sat here and thought....
What can I write? When it happened, I sure didn't want it to happen, but it did. (Sorry, @Major)

This has been a hard week, but one of the benefits is that I have realized that I've been mad at G-d since it happened -- @ 17 years ago. I finally have an inkling what it's like to love someone and yet be so angry. Most of my prayers lately have been apologies.
 
Yeah, I've been one of those who just sat here and thought....
What can I write? When it happened, I sure didn't want it to happen, but it did. (Sorry, @Major)

This has been a hard week, but one of the benefits is that I have realized that I've been mad at G-d since it happened -- @ 17 years ago. I finally have an inkling what it's like to love someone and yet be so angry. Most of my prayers lately have been apologies.

AND dear one, even though you've been mad a G-d, He has been loving your socks off, ...we serve and awesome G-d. ...don't we?
 
He amazes me. With my apologies have been praise, but not enough. How can I either thank Him or apologize enough? One apology was enough for Him, because He forgives the contrite, but will I ever forgive myself. And what makes me think I have the right not to forgive myself when He has forgiven me.
 
Ya got it!!!

Paul says he doesn't judge himself, a murderer of Christians, so why should we?

Father has the amazing ability to forget, we don't, so when we come to Him and say, forgive me Father I have sinned again, He says again??? I don't remember your last time, what are you talking about?

So, every time the enemy of your soul reminds you of your past sin, turn it around for good and do something for G-d, bake a cake or make some cookies, anything to serve others, when he sees his strategy backfires he will depart and wait for a more opportune time. Luke 4:13

Blessings,

Gene
 
Yeah, I've been one of those who just sat here and thought....
What can I write? When it happened, I sure didn't want it to happen, but it did. (Sorry, @Major)

This has been a hard week, but one of the benefits is that I have realized that I've been mad at G-d since it happened -- @ 17 years ago. I finally have an inkling what it's like to love someone and yet be so angry. Most of my prayers lately have been apologies.
And as you apologize you'll find healings within :)
 
Yes!!!

And as we apologize it's not so much the apology Father is looking for, but the humility we are learning, exhibiting and manifesting in the apology that thrills Fathers heart, it's the sanctification process, we are being changed, transformed metamorphosed into the image of His Son, not that Father wants a bunch of clones, but rather the more we become like Jesus, the less we are like the prince of this world and Father knows that is the best thing for us, ...it makes our Father proud of His children, ....and I personally believe Father says to the Heavenly onlookers of this drama we are acting out on the stage of this planet, ......that's my girl, tezriLi, did ya'al see that, ...that's my girl!

Blessings,

Gene
 
May I ask if you believe this,

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but try the spirits to see if they are of God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 1 Jn 4:1

Are you saying you believe everything you hear without testing it with the Word?

How do you confirm what is Truth and what is not?
 
I am reading 1 Corinthians chapter 14. A few questions came to my mind. Below is one of them. I will open another thread for another question.

It sounds Paul is saying tongues are not a sign for believers, but for unbelievers. But then he says, if an unbeliever enters a Church where everyone is speaking in tongues, they would be confused and think people are out of their minds. Are tongues sign for unbelievers or not? Same way, the verses are a little confusing for me about prophesy as well. How do I interpret these verses? I read a commentary on ESV study bible. I am posting that also. But I would love to hear everyone's thoughts on this

When commentaries get confusing, go before that throne of grace for wisdom in discerning His words as they are written in the King James Bible.

God's gift of tongues are of other men's lips to speak unto the people. That is all it is used for, meaning it is not used for speaking back unto God. Paul had to clarify that in the event readers misunderstood his words in the beginning of this chapter.

1 Corinthians 14:20 Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men. 21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.

The use of God's gift of tongues as a sign is explained by the visitor hearing what God would say unto him in his native language in the event he be led to repentance by believing and that God is in the believer of a truth. The point is made in that if all speak in tongues, they would be seen as mad, but if all prophesy, speaking in the language that the hearer understands, then a good report may result. So then that is the purpose of the gift of tongues is to "prophesy" in foreign languages to be understood by foreignors as God is using tongues which is of other men's lips to speak unto the people.

1 Corinthians 14:23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: 25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.

Tongues do not serve as a sign for believers. They serve as a sign for unbelievers and not everyone hearing will believe just as not everyone we preach to in teh language we understand will believe either.

That means no believer nor church should be using tongues as a sign that they are saved or that they have been called into the ministry or for anything else that believers are claiming tongues as a sign for.
 
There are three types:
  1. a language the Spirit speaks to help our infirmities which cannot be uttered, used for our edification;
  2. a foreign language like Spanish (and you don't know Spanish);
  3. a language of the Spirit where another interprets for the edification of those hearing it.

Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

At this link: you will find the Greek texts lining up with those verses.

http://www.sacrednamebible.com/kjvstrongs/B45C008.htm

The last Greek text mirroring verse 26 derives from the text alaletos

from a - a 1 (as a negative particle) and a derivative of lalew - laleo 2980; unspeakable:--unutterable, which cannot be uttered.

#1 Is the reason why we should rely on the King James Bible because the intercessions of the Spirit's are unspeakable as verse 26 testify "with groanings which cannot be uttered". That means the Spirit cannot give His own intercessions Himself even though He has them. This is why verse 27 existsand why itself was used to explain how the intercessions of the Spirit's are made known and that is by "he" that searches our hearts which scripture identifies as being the Son of God at that throne of grace in Hebrews 4:12-16 and thus is the same "he" that knows the mind of the Spirit because this is done in according to the will of God of that there is only One Mediator between God & men, the man Christ Jesus. 1 Timothy 2:5

Only He can give our intercessions and the intercessions of the Spirit's to the Father because that is His job to intercede between us ( Hebrews 7:25 ) and thereby be the only One that can answer our prayers so that the Father may be glorified in the Son ( John 14:13-14 ) for answered prayers ( Matthew 18:19-20 )

God is not using the gift of tongues to speak back to Himself in a form of prayer because the Holy Spirit speaks what He hears. ( John 16:13 ) He cannot speak of Himself which is why He has no words of His own to speak or to utter them because as His role as the Spirit of Christ, He can only rely the words of Christ to us. Before, The Holy Spirit served as the Spirit of the Father, but now, He serves as the Spirit of Christ as it is the Son of God as our Good Shepherd that is guiding us through the Holy Spirit in us as the words of the Father and everything the Father has was now the Son's in doling them out ( John 16:14-15 ) as all power was given unto the Son now ( Matthew 28:18 ). So all the words, fruits, and gifts of the Spirit are from Jesus Christ ( Philippians 1:6 Philippians 1:11 ) as we are the works of His hands ( John 6:28-29 & Hebrews 12:1-2 ).

When the Father knows before we ask anything in prayer, Matthew 6:7-8, then there really is no need for the Spirit to use the gift of tongues as a prayer language which is why discernment is needed in testing the spirits and the tongues they bring. Isaiah 8:19 1 Timothy 4:1-2 1 John 4:1 1 John 4:4-7 2 Timothy 2:15-16 2 Timothy 2:24-26
 
Praying in tongues honors God. It is like me learning your language and addressing you in it. When believers all pray in tongues it is honoring God. Each believer is praying their own prayer to God. There is nothing wrong with it. When a meeting is 'disrupted' by 'some' praying in tongues, there better be an interpreter as in the absence of one it was a disruption to the flow of a meeting. The Holy Spirit is for order, not disorder.

Amd what if there is no interpretation? What does that say to the one disrupting?

If believers in that church really believe that the Holy Spirit is praying, how can Paul command anyone to be silent if the Holy Spirit wishes to pray? Paul saying to not quench the Spirit and yet if no interpretation, let the tongue speaker be silent does testify that believers are not reading Paul's words as they were intended because 1 Corinthians 14:20-21 clarified Paul's position that God's gift of tongues were of other men's lips to speak unto the people. No exception was given to avoid being contradictory.

If the believers know unbelievers are coming, they should only pray a short while in tongues, like after a worship song for example. I think Paul is referring to a meeting where believers pray for long in tongues...whilst knowing unsaved will be there.

Paul introduce the notion that the church did not know and could not know when a visitor may come in as to why there should be order all the time; even after service. If a person outside the church saw a church doing that and think them mad, what does that say to believers outside the assembly for praying in tongues and someone came in on them when doing it? Same poor witness: they would think that believer is mad.

If we are to abstain from all appearances of evil, then God's gift of tongues can only come with interpretation unless otherwise understood by a foreignor in the mission field. Paul gave the format for which these gifts were to be used; to profit the body withal ( 1 Corinthians 12:7-11 ) ; not individual believers as if they can be really edified by it when Paul said it was unfruitful even to himself unless it came with interpretation and so he instructed that whosoever speaks in tongues, pray that another may interpret. but somehow, readers focussed on verse 14 as meaning praying in tongues when Paul meant otherwise in verse 13 to pray for someone else to interpret while they were speaking in tongues as the Spirit manifest the tongue.

1 Corinthians 14:13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. 14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. 15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

Verse 15 is Paul's way of saying that tongues is not a stand alone gift for the assembly or for the individual believer which is why the gift of prophesy was the gift to seek after above all spiritual gifts including tongues,

1 Corinthians 14:1Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.

.... and yet today, believers are seeking tongues without interpretation as a sign of receiving the second blessing or another baptism with the Holy Spirit with evidence of tongues when there is no other drink of the One Spirit and so it is not of Him at all.

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Colossians 2:5 For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ. 6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: 7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. 8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: It is an adulterous generation to seek after a sign when we are complete in Christ.

2 Corinthians 11:1Would to God ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me. 2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. 3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Believers need to go before that throne of grace for discernment and wisdom in understanding His words in the KJV because that is what is happening in the latter days for they believe every spirit that comes over them was of God 1 Timothy 4:1-2 when in according to our faith that He was already within us when we had first come to & believed in Jesus Christ thus serving as proof that what they felt coming over them again was not of God. 1 John 4:1 1 John 4:4

Signs was never meant to serve towards the believers that they had received the Holy Ghost.

Hebrews 11:1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 2 For by it the elders obtained a good report....6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Galatians 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith....26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. 13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, 14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. 15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,

May God be peradventuring to recover some from the snare of the devil because it is the will of God for US to pray and having known what we had prayed for, we can give the Father OUR genuine heartfelt thanks in Jesus's name for answered prayers.
 
Some historical context for WHY Paul required public interpretation....

There were those who were openly Blaspheming in a different language... and calling it "The Spirit"... and other, unknowing people were repeating it *Thinking* it was some sort of special gift....
When Apostles showed up who knew the language... Imagine their surprise!

So... Public tongues without interpretation are asking for trouble... At that point - you have no way to test the spirits... and who knows where that ends up.... It's opening the door for all sorts of mischief.

On the quote about people speaking in "Unutterable tongues" - that is incorrect.... Unutterable specifically means they CANNOT be uttered... In the correct context - the Holy Spirit makes groanings that CANNOT be spoken as intercession for us.... It is Impossible for MAN to make those groanings because they are unutterable....

Ref: Romans 8:26 - "Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered."

Why is tongues a gift "For Unbelievers".... Well... Say you have somebody new from Russia walk into your church.... They kinda understand English... but it's slow and rough.... All of a sudden - somebody starts talking in Tongues... in Russian - and it explains the scripture or clarifies meaning or encourages them or whatever..... Now - THEY glorify God..... God helped THEM understand what was going on..... The Interpreter then explains back to the rest of the Church what was said - and the church glorifies God as well...

On the other hand... If everybody breaks out into Gibberish and NONE of it is in any language he understands.... the new guy from Russia is totally bewildered by what is going on.... and there is nobody to explain it to him.... He walks out of there totally confused - knowing LESS about God than when he walked in the door...

Or... What about even worse... Without any interpretation or testing spirits - you could end up with:
Everybody breaks out into different languages... and 3 of them are speaking Profane, Blasphemous things in Russian.... The Russian guy hears this and is horribly offended.... What sort of place is THIS? Why would they say those HORRIBLE, offensive, profane things in CHURCH?

Thanks
 
I have also heard of modern-day profanity spoken in churches. This horrifies me. This stuff is not something to mess with. This is a holy G-d before Whom we stand. G-d help us!
 
Some historical context for WHY Paul required public interpretation....

There were those who were openly Blaspheming in a different language... and calling it "The Spirit"... and other, unknowing people were repeating it *Thinking* it was some sort of special gift....
When Apostles showed up who knew the language... Imagine their surprise!

So... Public tongues without interpretation are asking for trouble... At that point - you have no way to test the spirits... and who knows where that ends up.... It's opening the door for all sorts of mischief.

I am not sure why you think you can read the historical context into the scripture as being the reason for public interpretation when Paul explained why and it was other than that.

On the quote about people speaking in "Unutterable tongues" - that is incorrect.... Unutterable specifically means they CANNOT be uttered... In the correct context - the Holy Spirit makes groanings that CANNOT be spoken as intercession for us.... It is Impossible for MAN to make those groanings because they are unutterable....

Ref: Romans 8:26 - "Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered."

I agree. Believers need to not only test the spirits but the tongues they bring because there are familiar spirits in the world that just bring babbling nonsense; tongues that comes with no interpretation. Isaiah 8:19

It is a snare of the devil when believers think God's gift of tongues can be used as a prayer lnaguage when God wants US to pray so that we knew what we had prayed for so that when God answers our prayers, we can do the will of God and give the Father our heartfelt genuine thanks in Jesus's name for answered prayers.

Romans 8:26-27 in the KJV is about how the intercessions of the Spirit's are made known when the Holy Spirit cannot utter them Himself and that is by the Son knowing the mind of the Spirit. That reference was not about speaking in tongues at all.

Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. 27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. KJV

Other Bible versions does change the meaning of the words to imply that sounds are being made by the Holy Spirit "Himself" and some switch out the "he" to "the Spirit" in committing a grammatical error.

Romans 8:26 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us through wordless groans. 27 And he who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God. NIV

This is one reason why many believers think God is using the gift of tongues as a prayer language. Wordless groans imply sound being made and switching out itself with himself, how can they not think the Holy Spirit is doing this? And with the grammatical error in verse 27, they might as well change the he out in all of the verse to "the Spirit" if they wish to commit that nonsense in keeping with that changed message as "the Spirit searching our hearts & knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for God’s people in accordance with the will of God".

Like it or not, believers need to rely on the KJV for the meaning of His words because modern Bibles have declined from the testimonies of the Son to support false teachings and obliterate discernment of what is good and evil in these latter days.
 
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