The first churches were non-denominational.
Tongues And Prophecy - Benefit For Whom?
- Thread starter Ravindran
- Start date
- Status
The first churches were non-denominational.
this made me giggle!
Folks............are you aware that "tongues" did not appear first in Acts?????
The practice of speaking Tongues is not something that is new. IT WAS A PAGAN WORSHIP EXPERIENCE!!!!
Please do not take my word for this. Do the work. Investigate! Look it up. Tongues was incorporated into the early church in Corinth because those early people did it to worship their idols and that is why Paul wrote to the Corinthian church. We seem to have forgotten or selectively chosen to put aside that the reason Paul wrote to the Corinthian's was to correct them and their worship practices.
There has been since ancient times the practice of religious utterance, ecstatic utterance, as the key to spirituality. Going back to at least 1000 BC we have evidence in real historical material that in pagan religion there was the attempt for the worshipper to become so identified with the god or goddess that he is worshipping that it has taken control of his vocal cords and speaks to him, and this was the sign of super spirituality. That IMO is exactly what is happening today in this "tongues" movement. It is an attempt to be close to God at the expense of ignoring the written Word of God. But that is not what happens biblically. Yet, because of a certain similarity on the surface many people in the ancient world confused the biblical gift of languages with this religious ecstatic utterance that they grew up with.
Now those of you who want to speak in tongues will not like what I just posted. You will seek to marginalize the historical truth but it is none the less right there for all who want to know to find out for yourself. There is no reason to argue this with me, of course you will but you really do not need to. I can not change the historical facts of this. It is what it is and now knowing the facts.......
if you choose to speak in "tongues", go right ahead. It like everything else in life is a choice.
That may be why we have churches on every corner.
MMurphy
Inactive
1 Corinthian 12:10
1Corinthians 14:5 "I would like every one of you to speak in tounges..."
Context my brother always leads to correct interpretation.
"I would that ye all spake with tongues"...........must not be misconstructed with Paul's argument that he undervalued the gift of tongues. He did admit its importance , but he would RATHER that they TAUGHT the Word of God. Admitting the importance of tongues, it would still be better if they TAUGHT than spoke in them. The reason is of course that the church may receive edifying.
MMurphy
Inactive
My point was that tongues are perfectly biblical. You being a baptist will have a different opinion about its use in worship, but you can't completely discount it. You said it was pagan.
I said that it was around and being done by pagans a long time before it appearance in Acts 2. I also said that it is real easy to find that out, so that can not then be an argument.
My point is that tongues were valid, and real and were given to the apostles as a SIGN because the Jews always asked for a sign.
Jesus Christ gave those Eleven men the SIGN gifts so that every thing they said and did validated the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. WHEN the Bible was completed, those gifts were no longer need so that when the last apostle died, the sign gifts ended with them.
I realize that sincere well meaning people have a desire to speak in an unknown tongue because it allows them to feel an "experience" that draws them closer to the Lord. The real problem here is that one must be very careful because we simply do not know where these feelings can come from. The devil is an expert in getting our eyes off of Christ and onto ourselves.
I have been in more worship services than I can remember and to this day I have never witnessed tongues being done in the way the Bible directs.
I do not accept your comment that I have to admit that tongues are Biblical. They were but not now.
This is proof positive Paul was from the deep south! "Ye all" it's old English for "Y'all"
HisManySongs
Passed on, February 28, 2022
Actually, Ye all is what y'all means.This is proof positive Paul was from the deep south! "Ye all" it's old English for "Y'all"
Seriously though, it cannot be denied that there are three forms of tongues and Paul warned about how one would be abused:
1 Corinthians 14:38-40 (KJV)
But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant. Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. Let all things be done decently and in order.
When people are filled with the Holy Spirit there is such joy such rapture that one cannot express themselves and they just let themselves go like David dancing in the street. But at the same time there is a time and a place for these things to be done in order. The flesh likes tongues because it allows one to appear to be "holy" and "filled" with impunity. If you have two people, one really filled with the Spirit and he's expressing himself in praise to God and another who wants it but doesn't know how simply mimics the other and even feels good about it, so he let's himself go too. A third guy walks in and witnesses what's going on. In his flesh, can he judge which is real and which is fake? Just because there are more fakes than real, does that make the experience of the first man any less real? God will judge all. Leave it up to God to deal with those you disagree with but keep it in the word of God - all of it. Paul wouldn't have made the warning if it were not already an issue back then, real, but an issue.
1 Corinthians 14:38-40 (KJV)
But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant. Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. Let all things be done decently and in order.
When people are filled with the Holy Spirit there is such joy such rapture that one cannot express themselves and they just let themselves go like David dancing in the street. But at the same time there is a time and a place for these things to be done in order. The flesh likes tongues because it allows one to appear to be "holy" and "filled" with impunity. If you have two people, one really filled with the Spirit and he's expressing himself in praise to God and another who wants it but doesn't know how simply mimics the other and even feels good about it, so he let's himself go too. A third guy walks in and witnesses what's going on. In his flesh, can he judge which is real and which is fake? Just because there are more fakes than real, does that make the experience of the first man any less real? God will judge all. Leave it up to God to deal with those you disagree with but keep it in the word of God - all of it. Paul wouldn't have made the warning if it were not already an issue back then, real, but an issue.
Shhhh.... I was trying to lighten the mood
HisManySongs
Passed on, February 28, 2022
Y'all are doin' a right fine job, ah rekun.Shhhh.... I was trying to lighten the mood
This is proof positive Paul was from the deep south! "Ye all" it's old English for "Y'all"
LOL!!! Good one!
Yes sir.....said the same thing several times so far.
The great minds think alike
MMurphy
Inactive
But how can you say that tongues are not biblical when the church in Corinth were clearly doing it after the acts of the apostles?
I'm not saying that its unreasonable to think that most people will not and have spoken in tongues, but I've never passes judgment on it because it is clearly written in the Bible.
Mr. MMurphy. The letters to the church in Corinth were letters of "correction". They were doing things that were not supposed to be done and also doing things wrong.
The city of Corinth knew every kind of religion and was in fact pluralistic in its society. It was a cultural hub which lead Paul to consider it a strong gospel witness. However, moral depravity was vividly reflected in all of its activity and those things carried over into the church there. They had become drunk with pride and supported Greek wisdom and had reduced their religion to a quagmire of gross "sensualism".
Now, please do not accept these comments as my personal opinion. Please look up and do the homework on this city, church and the reason for Paul's epistle to them.
When you do that you will see that Paul had gotten word of divisions in the church ( 1 Cor. 1:11; 16; 17).
Secondly, Paul received a letter from the church wanting answers to a series of questions and Paul felt the need to respond. Therefore, Paul wrote to the church to:
1). Rebuke the sensual party spirit in the church.
2). Encourage them into moral purity.
3). Instruct them in specific doctrinal problems.
4). Ask them to participate in the collection for Jerusalem.
5). Tell them of his impending plans.
Having understood those things now please read 1 Cor. 14. The whole chapter is about the rebuke and correct edification of the church and the use of "tongues".
14:2-4.......
For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit. 3 On the other hand, the one who prophesies speaks to people for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation. 4 The one who speaks in a tongue builds up himself, but the one who prophesies builds up the church."
That speaks to contrast. Paul says that we should speak in a language that all understand.
You see, even then the use of tongues was not done correctly, hence the need for a corrective letter.
Trust me, those that don't want it won't get it... why would God give a gift that's only going to be refused...
I like that!
- Status