The body of truth and the Spirit of truth.

Discussion in 'Doctrinal Discussions' started by geralduk, Oct 16, 2015.

  1. The scripture says "so faith cometh and hearing by the Word of God" Romans 12:17
    If all that was needed was to hear the Word of God then all would be saved . But many having ears hear not .
    he that has ears to hear let him hear .All men have ears . But not all men hear .
    But whay sayeth the scriptures "the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them that believe not ........." 2 Cor 4:4.
    and in another place that "the eyes of your understanding being opened that ye may see and comprehend ........" Eph .
    Thus nigh on all men have eyes but see not .
    if then we have ears and can hear not and have eyes and see not . Then it is not only hearing the Word of God and that b y hearing ;it is also understanding the Word of God that faith IN God comes .
    Wisdom resteth in the heart that has understanding much like a bird may rest in its nest .
    In other words no man can respond in faith without understanding what is said .
    The fear of the Lord is the BEGINING of wisdom.
    and it is always wise to believe God.

    in Christ
  2. I find it continually amazing that people are so willing to accept words that do not mean the same simply because they think they understand the original langauge .
    I would suggest that you read what you have written here .
    "While he was walking he spoke out ......."
    When the scripture actually says the VOICE of the Lord walked in the cool of the evening .

    You do yourself no profit by changing what it says and up ahead yoru interpretation will bring you confusions rather than clarity.

    In Christ
  4. Isiah 57:15

    "For thus says the high and lofty One that inhabits eternity,whos name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place. with him ALSO that is of a contrite and humble spirit ..............................."
    No one understands the very nature of God save the SON only . We do but see though a glass darkly . Never the less is it not written of Jesus "who is the image of the invisible God" Col 1:15 and Who being the BRIGHTNESS of his glory, and the express image of his person.........................." Hebrews 1:3
    " For God commanded the light to shine out of the darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God ,in the face of Jesus Christ " 2Cor 4:6
    Jesus being the brightness of Gods glory is as when you look at a spot light .Its light permeates through out a room .But the brightness of the glory of it is when you look into the spotlight itself .
    But knwo ye not that it is written "Emmanuel ,God with uis "?
    The invisible God who is unknowable and who no man can look into His face as no man can look into the face of a sun .
    Yet THE SON who is the express image of the invisible God can be looked upon .For does not God say "seek my face"? and what was the answer of David? Thy face will I seek."
    For as the scriptures says it the things that are not seen are known and understood by the things that are seen.
    No man knoweth the Father save the Son and no man knoweth the Son save the father and to him whom God draws.
    No man can know the father or come to the father accept through Jesus Christ .
    When God says draw near to me and |I will draw near to you . God is not speaking of geographical nearness.
    He is after all "closer than a brother "
    Q: How close is that then?
    What is a brother?
    My body is the temple of the Holy Spirit and if the Lord God came and dwelt in the tabernacle made with hands .Then he will and can also dwell in him who is of a contrite and humble spirit .
    When Isiah saw the Lord high and lifted up . Only "His train filled the temple ." But he saw on earth and he saw in heaven.
    and what he saw was enough for him to confess he was "a man of unclean lips ......"
    What you are saying is a bit like how the church thinks of the power of His resurection .
    In a VERY limited sense enough to be BORNagain .But not enough to "go and do likewise"
    Paul saw and understood that it what was the SAME power that raised up Jesus Christ from the dead not a part of Him who raised up Jesus From the dead.
    To the effect he said as" the body is DEAD through sin ,if the same Spirit that raised up Jesus dwell IN you , He shall ALSO quicken your mortal bodies"
    The church has the idea that we have but an earnest of it enough to go to church a bit and 'praise the Lord' Paul says it si the SAME as .
    The earnest is more about or akin to the gifts Abraham gave to his servant to give to the prospective Bride .
    In Christ
  5. Yes it is quite simple .

    But we are supposed to all come to a unity of the faitth. That is never goign to happen when each takes what version of the bibloe si right in thier own eyes .
    By that there will be a division.

    in Christ
  6. OK, so in a nut shell you said all this to mean what?
  7. It sounds like to me you are trying to figure out how this all works using your natural carnal mind, and that will never work. Take all the scriptures that have to do with this and ask the Lord to help you understand.
    Euphemia likes this.
  8. know as well as I do that the voice of God didn't walk around the Garden. God did. Standing by a simple misinterpretation, clinging to the literal word placement, can be a big mistake in other areas of scriptural understanding. This is one such example.

    Let Holy Spirit teach you and show you what the word is saying, rather than allowing your grey matter to dictate to you.
    CCW95A likes this.
  9. Only if you want one.
  10. As I did not write the Bible or translate it . I cannot be responsible for what is written.
    The KJV has it written that "The VOICE of the Lord God waled in the cool of the day"
    You assert that I know that the voice of God did not walk around the garden.
    Who then am I to believe ? You or the Bible?
    I have been reading , studying and meditating on the Bible for 40 years . I have also used it in preaching and in my dealings with agressive and argumentative Moslems who challenge every sound doctrine fo God . I have never found it wanting .
    Moreover I fully expect both from expereince and biblical teaching that not only will the reasons why it is written the VOICE walked but more fully than I do now .
    But just in case you have completely misunderstood me and we are talking cross purposes and for the record .I am fully persuaded that it was the Lord who walked in the cool of the evening in that garden as it was the Lord who walked in the cool of the evening in the garden of gethsemene and even as it was his custom to do so in the garden of Eden so too as it is written it was his custom to do so in the garden of gethesemene .
    Yet not withstanding this .I utterly refuse to change the words of scripture from VOICE to something else . and I utterly reject what another version has changed it to.

    in Christ
  11. Not what I would wish or seek .
    But as I will not move or change scripture to suit modern theology or thinking . It may well be the case if others change or accept such arbitary and or badly translated scripture. and it will be like two lines both starting from the same point but one a degree different ,

    in Christ
  12. Sigh .
    On the oen hand people say we should understand and when you do express that understanding others say you are carnaly minded.

    What do you not understand?
    That God is omnipresent?
    That eh can be in the high and loft place of heaven as well as in the contrite and humble spirit?
    Know ye not that they who are joined to the Lord are of ONE Spirit?

    Each will have to be fully persuaded in thier own minds .
    For I thought I was actually bringing scripturs that are relevent to do with this.
    You simply have denied it and count me carnal minded.
    I shall simply adivise you what you have advised me.

    in Christ
  13. Reconcile this scripture to fit your thinking.

    1Th 4:16.. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
    1Th 4:17.. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord.
    1Th 4:18.. Therefore encourage one another with these words.
  14. Brother, you can not take certain scriptures that fit what you believe without taking all the scriptures that talk about the same truth, and only then come to conclusion based on truth. It only takes one scripture that says differently to pull down a belief you thought was true.
  15. I have been studying God's word for 53 years.

    You are merely arguing for a version, only perhaps two or three of which use the word "voice", but the meaning is the same. It was God walking in the garden, speaking, calling out to Adam and Eve as they hid in shame. One doesn't even need an M. Div. to understand that.

    There is no need for us to be intimidated or to be fearful of the most widely used bible versions...nor is it a healthy thing for the Body of Christ to cast aspersions on them. It is contrary to unity.
  16. He that is joined to the Lord is ONE SPIRIT. 1 Cor 16:7.

    Whe are spiritually one ,But not geographically one .
    "Absent in the body present with the lord " Meaning geaographically separated from US geographically one with the Lord .
    The rapture or translation of the Bride is to spiritualy , psychological and now geographical be one or in the same place.
    A man can be in the same room which is to be gegraphically in the same place , but be psychologically be somewhere else as well as spiritual.
    Man is made of mind body and spirit ,
    When a person is BORN again he is spiritually reconcilled to God . and is made of one spirit . For we are dead in trespaases and ins in and are by nature sons of disobedience .
    But we are quickened made alive and become paratkers of the divine nature when w ebecome children of God .
    Therefore spiritualy one . For it is the Spirit of God that now dwells in me the Spirit of Christ the Spirit of truth.
    God is omnipresent and not only lives in the high and lofty place but ion the humble and contrite heart . Know ye not that you are the temple of the Holy Spirit and of God?
    The BODY has been redeemed ,Yet that redemption " is yet to be revealed" For our bodies are dead because of sin and so geographically we are seprated from God . But what sayeth the scriptures? We shall all be changed in the twinkling of an eye ......" and corruption shall put on incorruption and mortal shall put on immortality and we shall BODILY meet the Lord in the air if we are ready . Fot he said himself that he si scoming for us that where HE IS we may be also .
    Thus we will be BODILY or geographically present with the Lord .
    If we die before the coming of the Lord we will be still PRESENT with the Lord but geographically separated from those on earth.
    But the Lord is coming FOR His Bride and then will come WITH His bride and both the Lord the church and the geography,physically or bodily will be on the earth of earth will be all in the same place .

    The Lord is omnipresent .When he walked this earth 2000 years ago men knew him only after the flesh .
    But it is expedient that i go away that is geographically fro if I go not away the Holy Spirit will not come (geographically) .
    The Spirit of God is the Spirit of Christ. is the Spirit of truth .
    What sayeth the scriptures ?
    "Abide in me and I in you ........." John 15:4
    "And I will pray the father and he shall give you another comforter that HE might abide with you forever " John 14 :16.
    Geographically we are separated from the Lord as I am geographically separated from you..
    if as you say you are a child of God then we are spirutally in the same place but not geographically in the same place . and clearly at this time neither are we phsycologically in the same place . Yet we are also called to be of the same mind as well.
    We are as children of God then spiritually one with the Lord . We are called to have the same mind as the Lord "let this mind be in you as was in Christ " and one day w ewill be geographically in nthe same place as well.

    In Christ
  17. Better a wise child than and old and foolish king ? I was simply giving my testomony not using it as any final authority .
    You should have noticed by now I am neitehr intimidated or fearful of other versions.
    Yet I am ge
    reatly concerned how so many versions are leadign people astray to the effect that Gods people are simply doing what is right in thier own eyes . and saying or implying that because (they say) they understand the original langauge then they are the final authority .
    Yet the scriptures say it is by the Spirit of truth that we knwo the spirit of error .He then is the final authority .The Lord in whom we trust , rather than our own understanding .
    There are betetr men than me who have written books on the subject and lay out an argument for each version . Textually ,lingusitic and in any other matter related . Each man has to eb fully persuaded in his own mind on the matter. I cannot force you ro anybody .
    I am not arguing for a VERSION I am arguing for the integrity of scripture and that men are changing what it says to what they understand or rather think it says .
    The scripture does NOT say God was walking in the garden and speaking . I dont know exactly WHY it does not say that .
    But what it does say is " the Voice of the Lord God walked " Strange as it might seem to mans thinking .That was what was inspired for men to put down.
    I will not , cannot nor do change it simply because it seems a strange thing to say . I also gave if you remember what I understood from it .
    For comparison another 'strange' thing God said and inspired men to record . "The seed of the woman " which comes a little later.
    It is not women who have the seed but it is man . for God created man in his image out of the dust of the earth and he created women out of the body of the man .
    The law of God is that ev ry seed will bring forth fruit after its own kind. We are therefore of all one KIND as we are also of all one blood. Thus we are MANkind and not another .
    Yet God said "the seed of the woman"
    God is a God of order and the word of God is given in order . and words beign what they are they can only be said one word at a time . The order of words and the development of an argument or doctrine then is laid out line upon line precept upon precept .
    Wisdom dictated perhaps the phrase "the seed of the woman" but as women do not have the seed then what does it mean?
    Simply that not only would this one child ("IT") be male ("HE") will be born of a woman and thus a man .
    But he would not be of Adams seed .
    So then I will not change scriptures 'strange' phrases that at face value seem none sensical and so in some peopels eyes must either be changed or not believed or both. But I will keep them and seek Gods mind on the matter as to what HE meant by it .
    Rather than seek what men mean by it .
    The truth is not democratic . and it is neither established , undermined or upheld by how many people 'vote' for it .
    I care not then how many people disagree with me IF they are wrong . I would be concerned if I was and IF so proved then I will change my thinking on the matter .
    But to ask me to change what the scriptures actually say to anothers interpretation of it is neither proving the case or justifying the change .
    "Nor is it a healthy (?!) thing for the body of Christ to cast aspersions on them ,it is contrary to unity "
    Unity founded upon error is to some extent A unity .
    But it is not the "unity of the faith..." Nor is it a unity of the Spirit of truth nor is it healthy .
    and while I do not count myself to be any one in authority . I do not count a 'majority ' if that is what it is; an authority either .
    and while I will argue my case, which i have done exhaustively ,to bring up such an argument that i should not question the verasity of many versions as it will or is aaginst 'unity' is a false argument and actually adds to my argument rather than yours.

    in Christ
  18. What versions render the Holy Spirit powerless that believers and seekers would be led astray?
  19. #59 geralduk, Oct 22, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2015
    "You have by your traditions made the Word of God of none effect"
    The Jews then believed ;wrongly, that the Messiah was to come to deliver them out of the hands of the Romans .
    As Moses delivered them out fo the hands of Egypt .
    For Moses had said that one "like unto me "would come . Nor realising the truth that the greater bondage is of sin and death not of chains and slavery to the egyptians .
    and as they were delivered from the first by the Word of God . The promise to Abraham.
    The power of God , the judgment on Egypt
    and the blood of a lamb .
    So too the deliverance from the greater bondage .
    By the word of God .The promise in the garden of eden .
    The Power of God , the resurection from the dead.
    and the blood of the lamb .
    The Jews believed the wrong message despiite all the evidence to the contrary.
    They still do thinkign that the suffering and the glory will and are all one event .
    So too the church is making a grave error believing the wrong message . That the coming of the Lord is but one event because it is also believed that all the church will eb translated when it si clear that people will be 'saved' afterwards and principally the Jews .
    For the Lord is coming FOR His Bride and then will come WITH his bride . and even as Jospeh revealed himself the second time .So too the Lord when he comes with His bride will reveal himself both a Saviour and Lord to his bretheren .
    For they will see him whom they have pierced and will mourn. But as Joseph said to his brothers you emant it for evil but God for your good. For our God can change a curse into a blessing .
    Whatsoever a man sows that shall he reap.
    The seed is the word . The nature of the seed is that it ahs everything that is needed and nothing that is not needed to reproduce the fruit .
    if you add to it it will not reproduce the fruit if you take from it also will not produce the fruit . If you mix truth with error you will get something .But you will not get life . Evcen as you can mix a donkey with a horse ylou will get a mule but that mule cannot reproduce itself.It has no life in its seed.

    A man may be born again . But our Salvation is more than beign BORN again . as gettign out of Egypt was not the end but just the beginning .
    The children of Israel entered noit into the promise because of unbeleif, Paul says . Unbelief is not just not believing God. it is also believing the wrong message .
    They only took 40 DAYS to get to the promised land , The church has taken the 40 YEARS in the wilderness as the NORM of a christians life and has justified the unbelief in doing so .

    and what was once a work has now become a doctrine .
    Judgment must start with the house of God .
    and if we would judge oursleves then w ewould not be judged.
    We are in a reverse reformation and denying basic truths long ago proved and established then and reacted against by those who held so fast to thier traditions .rather than to God.

    in Christ
  20. For all your copious words, just what are you saying? In a nutshell...

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