Senior vs Young Christians - Are We Encouraging or Holding Back?

[blueskies]

Hi everyone,
On behalf of the mods here I just want to remind everyone, once again, that:
Speaking in Tongues - (either Pentacostal, unknown, or foreign but known language) is a baned topic here.

We ALL know why, and we ALL know better.

 

[bobinfaith]

Hello brothers and sisters;

I was the one who initiated my comment on the tongues experience and I feel others only piggybacked their own experiences, the point was, all being false teaching. This one's on me.

I'm sure there are other teachings that were introduced to us in our ministry and as we have grown we know better what was taught may have been in error or what has remained inerrant in God's perfect Word.

 

[Major]

When it comes to God, there are too many trying to 'work' Him up through their own efforts, techniques, step-programs etc., and that applies to both old and young. Sounds like the flesh to me.

If it walks like a duck and quakes like a duck, then it is a real good chance that it is the flesh!

You see and I think you know, when there is excitement and tongues and slain in the spirit and people running up and down the isle, it is a clear sign of the Holy Spirit.......right?

When churches start structuring their services to induce states of spiritual frenzy, say, by amping up the A/C to produce chills or telling their congregants to repeat certain phrases so they can start speaking in tongues, they are encouraging emotionalism, not true emotion.

What worries me over the years is when some worship leaders or ministers start to judge the hearts of their congregants by the loudness or demonstrativeness that they can see. I think the same thing when some people say.....YOU are not spiritual because I do not see you get excited!!!

Some churches expect their members to run the aisles, yell, or fall on the floor, slain in the spirit as they call it. Of course we must realize whose spirit is in focus! YES. while these I am certain that at times thses actions can be heartfelt, however, they are not nearly an accurate snapshot of worship, at least not for many people.

Everyone’s praise will look a little different because we are all different people! Some people are naturally quieter than others, and even singing along with the lyrics of the songs is outside of their comfort zone. While it may be good to step out of one’s comfort zone if it brings them closer to God, we also must understand that each person’s walk with God is unique, just as they are, and that God is looking at their hearts not on their outsides anyway.

 

[Major]

Hello brothers and sisters;

I was the one who initiated my comment on the tongues experience and I feel others only piggybacked their own experiences, the point was, all being false teaching. This one's on me.

I'm sure there are other teachings that were introduced to us in our ministry and as we have grown we know better what was taught may have been in error or what has remained inerrant in God's perfect Word.

And I for blame YOU! You have always been a trouble maker!



By the way, I do speak a little Spanish.........."Taco, burrito, agua, adios">

 

[forgiven61]

Hey forgiven;

When I attended a men's retreat almost 30 years ago about 3 pastors gathered around me and put their hands on my stomach. I didn't know any better. They were going to pray and induce the Holy Spirit to come up and out of my mouth so I could develop tongues. Seriously?

Lesson. Don't allow men to "false teach" me by laying hands on my stomach. Only my wife can touch me there. lol!

people get wild ideas about the spirit. what some refuse to see we are given the spirit the moment we get saved. the rest is up to us to grow.

 

[Lanolin]

Paul encouraged Timothy to minister and use his gifts even though he was young.
I think the whole culture of 'we hate young people' is a throw back to the time when children were meant to be seen and not heard. I don't know who taught such an idea, but it certainly has damaged a lot of young peoples lives not being able to witness or even to be believed.

Of course this is hard going don't I know it, trying to train young children to be quiet in a library lol

Jesus said suffer the little children, and forbid them not as they belong to the Kingdom of Heaven. Plus we must enter it as a child. Eg we are born again and are babes in Christ who grow. We don't come to the Lord as someone who knows everything already. How can we, we are not God.

 

[kdm1984]

Hi! I'm 38, and my husband is 46. I find that the 35-50 age group is in a strange place, especially, since the 2020s. The older (50+) still think we're quite young, but the people under 35 think we're "Boomers"!

Technically, I'm one of the older members of the "Millennial" generation (born 1981-1996), while my husband is one of the younger members of "Generation X" (born 1965-1980). But people under 35 don't usually use the Pew Research definitions, and as far as they're concerned, my husband and I are the same as "Boomers." This is what I've been told now several times by Christians and non-Christians on various Internet forums who are in those age groups.

My understanding was the "Baby Boomer" generation was born between 1946-1964, so those would be mostly people in their 60s and 70s. But "Generation Z" and some of the younger "Millennial" members on the Internet have told me, that they don't gatekeep the way Pew Research does -- they say the definitions have changed, and that everyone 35 and over is essentially a "Boomer" now.

This was my experience back when I was at the Missouri Synod Lutheran church back in 2018-20 as well. That church mirrored a lot of the "cultural wars" today, which often pit "Boomers" vs. "Millennials."

Among the topics I saw argued ad nauseam in those circles:

-Boomers were the ones who tried to do too much rock/emotional music, because of growing up with Elvis and the Beatles. Supposedly it was the younger generation which was actually wanting to go back to the liturgy. My dad is a Baby Boomer, and admittedly, he likes the more emotive type of worship. I like the liturgy. But I'm also an older Millennial, which the younger generation says is really a "Boomer," sooo....I guess I don't fit the stereotype?

-the very vocal Millennials thought the Boomers were actually the ones who were too "tolerant." They wanted to take over the leadership and oust older members.

I had some very bad experiences with LCMS especially, in the under-35 crowd. The Internet communities thought I was much too old, and not worth respect, because they thought the "Boomers" had ruined everything.

I thankfully haven't dealt with this kind of thing at WELS.

 

[Lanolin]

My dad is a boomer and thinks any music after 1964 is not worth hearing.
Baby boomers were babies born after 1945 (World War 2) when everyone was encouraged to reproduce after everyone had died.
My dad was born 1947 and grew up in the 50s. He had the benefits of welfare state that promised to look after that generation from 'cradle to grave' but those benefits stopped around 1964 mark. I am not sure what exactly happened in 1964 but that may have been when JFK was assassinated birth control pills were introduced and then the hippies took over. it wasn't big in NZ but because american music oversaturated the market those young people grew up hearing it all the time. And they collect all the vinyl and got that message. Teenagers were the biggest group and they had the power to change the world.
However he didn't become a hippie and got married 1974 when land and houses were still available so that was one thing. And he had a steady job until he was made redundant.

Land supply and decent houses and steady work determine a lot of quality of life for many.
I don't know if this is relevant because my parents are not christians and so were not part of any church. They only went to church for weddings.
But I definitely know there's a certain selfishness associated with boomers when they expect the younger generation to have all the things they had (namely home ownership) when the land and houses are just not there anymore and we have to deal with urban sprawl and dwindling resources, plus our economy was not in good shape. Boomers were seduced by drugs or those who overreached or were unfaithful broke up families and many children of boomers became embittered gen xers who knew they were doomed as they couldn't tell their parents what to do when they started living for themselves.

 

[bobinfaith]

Hi! I'm 38, and my husband is 46. I find that the 35-50 age group is in a strange place, especially, since the 2020s. The older (50+) still think we're quite young, but the people under 35 think we're "Boomers"! -Boomers were the ones who tried to do too much rock/emotional music, because of growing up with Elvis and the Beatles. Supposedly it was the younger generation which was actually wanting to go back to the liturgy. My dad is a Baby Boomer, and admittedly, he likes the more emotive type of worship. I like the liturgy. -the very vocal Millennials thought the Boomers were actually the ones who were too "tolerant." They wanted to take over the leadership and oust older members. I had some very bad experiences with LCMS especially, in the under-35 crowd. The Internet communities thought I was much too old, and not worth respect, because they thought the "Boomers" had ruined everything. I thankfully haven't dealt with this kind of thing at WELS.

My dad is a boomer and thinks any music after 1964 is not worth hearing. Baby boomers were babies born after 1945 (World War 2) when everyone was encouraged to reproduce after everyone had died. My dad was born 1947 and grew up in the 50s. He had the benefits of welfare state that promised to look after that generation from 'cradle to grave' but those benefits stopped around 1964 mark. I am not sure what exactly happened in 1964 but that may have been when JFK was assassinated birth control pills were introduced and then the hippies took over. it wasn't big in NZ but because american music oversaturated the market those young people grew up hearing it all the time. And they collect all the vinyl and got that message. Teenagers were the biggest group and they had the power to change the world. However he didn't become a hippie and got married 1974 when land and houses were still available so that was one thing. And he had a steady job until he was made redundant. Land supply and decent houses and steady work determine a lot of quality of life for many. I don't know if this is relevant because my parents are not christians and so were not part of any church.

Hello Lanolin;

What you both wrote is relevant because our coexistence in society is what we bring into the Church. God already knew the personality of the communities in our own backyard which establishes the launching autonomy of our neighborhood Churches.

The generation of our parents is what most can relate to. I'm not talking about the person relating by sitting in front of the keyboard surfing all day for people issue information. I'm referring to those who relate are actually outside rubbing shoulders with people, witnessing, hearing, speaking, eye to eye and delivering back a testimony.

Many people of all ages have never been involved with talking Jesus, or some are just not there yet. So when we cross paths with these people, whom God loves, He is using each one of us to be that light and salt to the one who still doesn't know who this Jesus is.

Hello kdm1984, you and your husband are blessed to have been grounded at WELS Lutheran Church that teaches in all areas of Biblical Inerrancy. There may be a balance with your Church family between the generations in disciple teaching and training besides partnering with other Church family in ministry.

My wife and I are attending and serving to help rebuild our Baptist Church in Los Altos, CA. They are going through a good season in 2023. We have a wonderful balance of believers in one accord and bond between the generations. But as we get to know each other more and more the imperfections come out in the open with personalities, illness of all ages, death, job issues, living in California and discussion/constructive disagreements of God's Word. The Church is ongoing work and God still remains the architect.

Honing back to senior and young Christians, we all bring the trends, culture, and times into the Church but this should not divide the generations, instead become an intergenerational fellowship. God intends for us to serve as a diverse Church family.

There is a benefit when I take the time to support a 27 year old Bible study teacher and while in attendance, I just "listen." I may not say much but being there to support his ministry with the other young adults can go a long way. Or, when I mentor my 19 year old nephew can come off as lecturing or preaching from where he stands, but when a 24 year old pastor hangs out with him can go a long way in conversation and sharing the Gospel.

When God sees this transition between Senior and Young Believers His Word is unlimited and will reveal the results in all circumstances.

In Joel 2:28, 28 “And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh; your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, and your young men shall see visions.

God bless you all and your families.

 

[Lanolin]

I feel young believers now are needing to tell the gospel to older people who aren't believers. (Often falling on deaf ears)
I've been in churches where it seemed my faith was more mature than the people that were much older and they hadn't even been baptised. It's kind of strange.

At some retirement villages a LOT of people are not christians. But then at others it seems the entire church is there.
Older believers like to go to cafes and chat or play bowls. They don't really do anything strenuous. It's actually kind of boring.

Young believers can't sit in cafes over endless cups of coffee and a scone, they want to be out doing stuff, planting trees, painting murals, dancing, marching, or making tiktok videos . Climbing mountains or rescuing animals. They have study and they have work to get on with.

And women don't want to always have to bring a plate to a shared potluck and spend all day cooking and preparing meals. When women have to work to keep afloat as well. That kind of expectation is put on women in churches like we all live in some kind of wealthy surburbian utopia with our own kitchen sinks and cars and can go visiting each other at the drop of a hat (if we can navigate the traffic) at all hours of the day and we all have money to spare on going to the mall. It's not like that.

 

[bobinfaith]

I feel young believers now are needing to tell the gospel to older people who aren't believers. (Often falling on deaf ears) I've been in churches where it seemed my faith was more mature than the people that were much older and they hadn't even been baptised. It's kind of strange. At some retirement villages a LOT of people are not christians. But then at others it seems the entire church is there. Older believers like to go to cafes and chat or play bowls. They don't really do anything strenuous. It's actually kind of boring. Young believers can't sit in cafes over endless cups of coffee and a scone, they want to be out doing stuff, planting trees, painting murals, dancing, marching, or making tiktok videos . Climbing mountains or rescuing animals. They have study and they have work to get on with.

Hello Lanolin;

I hear you and on the lighter side I have to agree from both sides. This is not an easy topic because as Christians we're in the people business which in itself is a tough ministry.

At 66 years old I can share my marble collection to older people but young adults wonder what's so special about marbles from flower vases and shooting them? lol!

 

[Lanolin]

Well now youth are all into video games on their devices its become a real problem as they can be quite addictive.
I remember introducing knucklebones in one library and the teacher was delighted to be able to teach her children how to play.
Same with chess, (real chess, not computer chess) but as you know...I got fired for doing that by the Primary Principal. :-( She actually wanted them on devices and wasn't concerned they would be having too much screen time. She taught technology.

The children actually really wanted to learn chess using real chess pieces and boards. They asked for the chess boards. It wasn't me forcing anyone to play chess.

 

[kdm1984]

Well now youth are all into video games on their devices its become a real problem as they can be quite addictive.
I remember introducing knucklebones in one library and the teacher was delighted to be able to teach her children how to play.
Same with chess, (real chess, not computer chess) but as you know...I got fired for doing that by the Primary Principal. :-( She actually wanted them on devices and wasn't concerned they would be having too much screen time. She taught technology.

The children actually really wanted to learn chess using real chess pieces and boards. They asked for the chess boards. It wasn't me forcing anyone to play chess.

I read that parents should limit toddlers to an hour of screen time a day. My 18 month old gets 1 hour of Super Simple Songs. All the rest of his waking hours, he's dealing with real world physical things...which lately is mostly his Lego Duplo toys, lol

 

[Lanolin]

Its become to expensive to buy gas and lower incomes are running out of money after paying bills. So if they live too far from church they aren't going to go. It's just another expense, plus to dress up to go there.

Remember you have to be at least 16 to have a drivers license, and few can afford a car, (unless parents are rich enough to give them one) so young people aren't going to go unless they can walk there or get a ride. Public Transport doesn't run on Sundays in many areas or its not free either. Young people also don't have jobs if they busy at school, or if they do have a job, after school it would most probably be on the weekends or night shifts. That doesn't always coincide with church time. And some churches only hold services on Sundays, instead of just being open to drop in all week. So the rest of the time the building is just sitting there, empty, or when you go in, you get told to get lost because it looks like you are going to steal something.

I'm just being realistic. Churches apparently used to welcome young people and had huge sunday schools and events on all the time, but this most have been before I became a christian. Now its either nothing or rock concerts. Rock concerts! Young people don't even like rock, that's for oldies.

I was never asked what I thought of it all, but then I'm not forced or obligated to go to church. I'm a reader, but I like to go at my own pace. Gatherings often have the air of school assemblies, and I'm never sure if I ought to go or who to sit with, where I'll either be completely ignored or hassled.

 

[forgiven61]

the younger Church likes the new Contempary music its more upbeat than hymns.. personally, i think a couple hymns and couple new music is in order many have left the hymns out . the worst thing that can happen is become a entertainment. center instead of worship center . dont take the old school out just to pacify the new . both need each other

 

[Lanolin]

the 'new' contemporary music is always 20 years out of date.
I really don't understand a lot of the church songs these days, esp Hillsong. I find most of them a bit bland and vague. Where's the spiritual warfare? The smart gospel message? It's all a bit like an easy listening station that puts you to sleep.

You should be able to sing a hymn marching down the street and everyone knows the words and actions. It should be totally unplugged.

 

[crossnote]

You should be able to sing a hymn marching down the street and everyone knows the words and actions. It should be totally unplugged

My daughter, when she was 16 used to point out that the hymns of the 1800's sounded like camp fire/ marching hymns, she preferred the 1600 & 1700 songs.

 

[Lanolin]

My daughter, when she was 16 used to point out that the hymns of the 1800's sounded like camp fire/ marching hymns, she preferred the 1600 & 1700 songs.

lol
There needs to be a hymns for the ages songbook and the top hymns of each century.

Kumbaya is a bit of a classic though. Everyone knows that one don't they? Except after electricity came in, people weren't sitting round camp fires anymore.

 

[crossnote]

Kumbaya is a bit of a classic though. Everyone knows that one don't they? Except after electricity came in, people weren't sitting round camp fires anymore.

I suppose TV became the new campfire and I guess Kumbaya would qualify as a 'spiritual' song...

Ephesians 5:19
addressing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody to the Lord with your heart,

 

[Lanolin]

Karaoke is the new campfire
At church you aren't allowed to choose the songs the 'worship team' always hog the selection. I like when it's spontaneous and you can do requests.
I don't know why, if singing is a huge part of church services, theres not much attention being paid to what people actually LIKE to sing. I also don't understand why all churches seem to have 'praise bands' instead of choirs.

I can never figure out why churches are the way they are, but I suppose its traditions and what the majority generation of those-in-charge like to do.