New World Order, Environmentalism, Conspiracy theory etc.

[Major]

OK. Without wishing to get into a debate on this: Very awkward as my own political leanings on the social side of things are to the left. I'm not what I think Americans would call liberal, perhaps leaning more towards Acts and the early Christians - at least the way I read it is more sort of socialist in nature.

There are times I want to dive in and get angry for that sort of reason but usually decide to walk away (perhaps having slightly put my foot in it first) from the forum for a month or so rather than get involved.

I suppose I could also say that one of my takes on things is that I do feel all our understandings of the bible (including my own limited one) can be coloured to some extent by our own political leanings, cultural backgrounds, patriotisms, etc.

On the end times bit, while not personally a believer in the rapture, I will openly confess that I do not understand Revelations, etc. to form a "definite opinion" of my own. As things stand, I am however content to leave this as it is.

Hope that explains things a bit for you.

I was just curious. Many years ago I had no feelings about prophecy, only that when I heard a sermon it always scared me. That is the reason I made a point to do the study and homework so that I would be able to give an answer when asked.

We must always be able to tell the difference between Biblical teachings and political pressures.

 

[Francis Drake]

Of course you are correct but please notice that I said the Revelation by John which was my focus at that point and not Daniel.

Do you think that the economic meltdown in 2008 set the timetable back of the One World Order?

Could that be the reason why the USA will not play a major role in the end times?

I am very glad that the Lord has called you to be such a warrior!

Thanks Major, I thoroughly enjoy reading your posts and being challenged by them.
I have no clue regarding the 2008 meltdown, but the demonic world control maniacs have been subject to countless set backs over the years, like having their language split hundreds of different ways at Babel, like the reformation, like being defeated at Waterloo, like being defeated in Berlin.

 

[Silk]

I think there comes a time..a point that is reached, where there is no turning back. And I think we are at that point, all over the world. Do I think, therefore, that good people should stop issuing warnings right to the end? Absolutely not. We are miles to the sky flooded with deception. Deception that has become or is becoming the accepted facts of what the world considers reality. As an American, who loves her country and wants a reprieve with time to return to God, I understand your motivations very well @Francis Drake. And yet, I don't see that if we are given 10 or 20 more years that things will improve or change here. Do you see any changes to the good there in the UK? I was a very liberal, tolerant Christian most of my life. I guess I hoped that if I tolerated other people's beliefs that they would tolerate mine. That if I lived a good Christian life I would reflect to these others what was in their best interests to live towards too. But that isn't how it works in the real world. The enemy has used our tolerance to bury us. In America, the top religion is Christianity with 41,000+ denominations - islam is now the number two religion here and I hear in London, that the most popular newborn male babies name is mohammad. In more ways than one, the conspiracy theorists tells us we are in the days of Noah. Wasn't the Tower of Babel in the days of Noah too? I just think the most important message to get out is get back to God. And the only way is through Christ.
My 2 cents.

 

[Francis Drake]

I think there comes a time..a point that is reached, where there is no turning back. And I think we are at that point, all over the world. Do I think, therefore, that good people should stop issuing warnings right to the end? Absolutely not. We are miles to the sky flooded with deception. Deception that has become or is becoming the accepted facts of what the world considers reality. As an American, who loves her country and wants a reprieve with time to return to God, I understand your motivations very well @Francis Drake. And yet, I don't see that if we are given 10 or 20 more years that things will improve or change here.

Silk, you are right and I can also assure you that things will most certainly change. They will get infinitely worse............unless we go to war!
They have got this bad simply because of the complete indifference of the body of christ who are more interested in entertaining church services than a changed life.
Step be step, little by little, our nations have been changed. That has happened because evil people have got into power and deliberately changed those laws in order to encourage sin.

Do you see any changes to the good there in the UK? I was a very liberal, tolerant Christian most of my life. I guess I hoped that if I tolerated other people's beliefs that they would tolerate mine. That if I lived a good Christian life I would reflect to these others what was in their best interests to live towards too. But that isn't how it works in the real world. The enemy has used our tolerance to bury us.

Exactly, appeasement never works when you are actually dealing with demonic powers. As Churchill said about Hitler, during Chamberlain's attempts to buy peace, " appeasing Hitler is like feeding a crocodile, in the hope that he will eat you last."

In America, the top religion is Christianity with 41,000+ denominations - islam is now the number two religion here and I hear in London, that the most popular newborn male babies name is mohammad. In more ways than one, the conspiracy theorists tells us we are in the days of Noah. Wasn't the Tower of Babel in the days of Noah too? I just think the most important message to get out is get back to God. And the only way is through Christ.
My 2 cents.

And no I haven't seen any changes for the good here for many decades, but that doesn't stop me fighting in the spirit and warning others.
I am not sure how much you are aware of the demonic hierarchy that reigns over every nation, state, city, etc. These hierarchies have a major effect on the spiritual atmosphere over our heads and that have a major affect on the preaching of the gospel. We ignore these powers to our peril.
Many dismiss my stance, as posted here, as of lesser importance than evangelising the lost, yet we are actually commanded to go to war about these things and not just to be passive. Interestingly, many people have been woken up to the gospel as I have simply related what scripture prophecies about the events they see on the news!

In Eph6 Paul outlines the various strategic level of demon that rule over the lands. The influence of these powers has been strengthened step by step because christians have been passive.

Ephesians6
v10Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
11Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in heavenly places.
13Therefore take unto you the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14Stand therefore, having your loins girded about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
15And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16Above all, taking the shield of faith, with which you shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked one.
17And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
18Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thus with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
19And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,
20For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that in this I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.

This is why I am at war, and why I keep warning people. It will get worse if we do nothing.

 

[Silk]

I don't disagree with what you have said or at least in what I think you mean. All Christians are called to put on the armor to resist, individually, what is against God. That armor consists of the Word of God and our faith. Our main mission is to warn and spread the truth, which gives value to the warning. The warning has no value to those who think that the world will keep moving on, regardless. Scripture tells us that there will come a day - a time - when the world will change drastically, first for the worst time ever in all of human history. Many, and I am one, think we are brinking that time. There is nothing in scriptural prophecy that tells us that there is something we can/will do that will stop this. We could - like Nineveh, all or a majority, including leaders, gather, fast and repent. Pray and return to God. This would - as in Nineveh's case, delay judgement for a generation. Do you see any possibility of people doing this in today's world? Read the Harbinger by Jonathan Cahn - He says America is under judgement and has been repeatedly warned and has ignored it. There is the implication that this judgement may be delivered in Sept., 2015. If you believe in the rapture - that will take place around the same time. If (big if) this is true....we must change things in 3 months time. Not only are we not all on the same page - we are not in the same book nor the same library. I hope and pray this is wrong but what are the options if it isn't?

 

[Francis Drake]

Excuse me it, whatever i said, is not meant to be an insult and please dont take it as one.

No problem, I have a thick skin anyway. Words are somewhat less threatening than death threats!

How was I supposed to know I dont live in your country.

Lanolin, when I post wrong stuff, I own responsibility, but your retort, "How was I supposed to know I don't live in your country." is er mmm................?

But please don't stop posting just because I seem pernickety, whatever that means.

 

[Silk]

And evil is already going after Christians...with beheadings and crucifixtions in the middle east. 9 Christians shot while at Bible Study in their church yesterday evening. It reminds me of what I used to have as part of my signature. Rev.Martin Neimoller (1892 - 1984):

When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

 

[Waggles]

Simply saying, "don't worry, God is in control" is utterly naive, and not an example of faith.

Not wasting one's time with multiple stories and plots of what might be concerning end times is the correct course of Christian action.
A Christian is to serve the Lord and the Father by being busy with preaching the gospel of salvation. A labourer in the vineyard.
All the New World Order efforts by Satan and his children will come to nought (Psalm 2).
It is not naive to trust in the Lord and to be busy about the gospel. End times speculations are a distraction to the Christian life.
In the end you and I will not make any difference whatsoever to the schemes and plots of the various world ruling classes/elites.
Our job is to watch and pray. Our job is to tell people how to be saved by believing the gospel written in our New Testaments.
The world will burn in a forthcoming nuclear holocaust that will consume ALL the works of man and Satan.

The real terrifying tragedy in all of this are the milluions of christians who have put their trust in a false doctrine that will never ever happen
- the so-called pretribulation Rapture.

 

[Francis Drake]

Not wasting one's time with multiple stories and plots of what might be concerning end times is the correct course of Christian action.
All the New World Order efforts by Satan and his children will come to nought (Psalm 2).

Yup, so Satan will never establish his NWO ten kingdoms despite prophecy stating he will. Great!

 

[boltardy]

I was just curious. Many years ago I had no feelings about prophecy, only that when I heard a sermon it always scared me.

OK. taking things that way. Not personally being a believer in the Rapture, for sure I'm scared of the thoughts I might be around during a period of tribulation (and I do believe there will be one). Death itself does not scare me but how I might die and whether I would be able to endure (esp as I'm a wimp!) what might be thrown at me most certainly does.

I suppose my broader view though is more one of sort of "God's going to do what God's going to do" and, without personal understanding, I'll have to take things as they come. Very personally, I seem to have more to sort out in terms of my own day to day living with Christ than to (personally) get bogged down in (what seems to me at the present time as various interpretations of) prophecy. If I was capable, I'd be a "wise maiden" first if that makes any sense.

We must always be able to tell the difference between Biblical teachings and political pressures.

Sure, But I know for certain, I can let my own politics get in the way and on occasion, I do read things that make me wonder whether others may make the same mistakes.

 

[Silk]

Re: Rapture. There is a remarkably good thread that uses scripture, in context, that IMO, goes quite far in making a convincing case for pretrib rapture. Less than a year ago, I did not see, plainly, the rapture in scripture. Now I wonder how I missed it. I found it in scripture, myself, while looking up judgement, along with tracking evil interference & attendant geography. So I was convinced with homework before the thread. The thread just confirmed and tied up any loose questions. It's worth the reading, whatever your thoughts. http://www.christianforumsite.com/threads/the-raptures-harpazo-of-the-scriptures.42449/

 

[Silk]

Sure, But I know for certain, I can let my own politics get in the way and on occasion, I do read things that make me wonder whether others may make the same mistakes.

I want to know, in the here and now, what is the truth. I want my corrections here as opposed to finding out was wrong in my afterlife. For me, my scriptures have to agree and I have to understand them. They are complex and cannot be read with intellect alone, and they have to make sense. I would add a recent understanding I have only recently reached: it has to be true for every believer, on every level.

 

[boltardy]

I want to know, in the here and now, what is the truth. I want my corrections here as opposed to finding out was wrong in my afterlife. For me, my scriptures have to agree and I have to understand them. They are complex and cannot be read with intellect alone, and they have to make sense. I would add a recent understanding I have only recently reached: it has to be true for every believer, on every level.

Silk, in our own ways and limitations, I suspect (despite various theological disagreements) that goes for just about all of us here. I think we all believe there is this (in a sense mysterious) "thing" (well I'm sure that is God) that is "The Truth". On a personal level though, there are many things to which the most honest answer I could give is "I don't understand". And sometimes when I've thought I've understood or my belief is right, I've had to revise later...

 

[Major]

OK. taking things that way. Not personally being a believer in the Rapture, for sure I'm scared of the thoughts I might be around during a period of tribulation (and I do believe there will be one). Death itself does not scare me but how I might die and whether I would be able to endure (esp as I'm a wimp!) what might be thrown at me most certainly does.

I suppose my broader view though is more one of sort of "God's going to do what God's going to do" and, without personal understanding, I'll have to take things as they come. Very personally, I seem to have more to sort out in terms of my own day to day living with Christ than to (personally) get bogged down in (what seems to me at the present time as various interpretations of) prophecy. If I was capable, I'd be a "wise maiden" first if that makes any sense.



Sure, But I know for certain, I can let my own politics get in the way and on occasion, I do read things that make me wonder whether others may make the same mistakes.

I can assure you that we all make the same kind of mistakes!

You seem to me to be an excellent Christian and I am sure that you will grow and be blessed.

I encourage you to live life one day at a time knowing that no matter what comes, God is in control and all things work out for His glory and our good!!!

 

[Major]

I want to know, in the here and now, what is the truth. I want my corrections here as opposed to finding out was wrong in my afterlife. For me, my scriptures have to agree and I have to understand them. They are complex and cannot be read with intellect alone, and they have to make sense. I would add a recent understanding I have only recently reached: it has to be true for every believer, on every level.

How very insightful. You Silk have hit my theology and thinking right square in the face. My comments and thinking come from what I have learned and then considering all ALL of the scope of God's Word.......... fit perfectly into place.

To me, things said whether prophetically or otherwise, must fit into place. If they do not, then that is MY fault and it means to me that I have more study to do in order to be considered a workman for God, rightly dividing His Word.

 

[Major]

Silk, in our own ways and limitations, I suspect (despite various theological disagreements) that goes for just about all of us here. I think we all believe there is this (in a sense mysterious) "thing" (well I'm sure that is God) that is "The Truth". On a personal level though, there are many things to which the most honest answer I could give is "I don't understand". And sometimes when I've thought I've understood or my belief is right, I've had to revise later...

Amen! That is growth in knowledge!!!!

 

[Silk]

On a personal level though, there are many things to which the most honest answer I could give is "I don't understand". And sometimes when I've thought I've understood or my belief is right, I've had to revise later...

But you are able to revise....and none of us understand all of it, in every detail...every dotted i or crossed t. Four years ago, I was a very tolerant but loving Christian. Theologically - unknowingly, I was not on solid ground. Now - surprise (to me) - I'm a literalist and my understanding has made my ground rock solid...and still more loving. Even the very best of us is unworthy. Christ's work makes us worthy to God. What I do now, as opposed to back in the day, is try to make everything I do out of love of God. Not because it looks good on me for others or for what I think would be for God's approval. He has already given this to us tho we were unworthy.

 

[Major]

But you are able to revise....and none of us understand all of it, in every detail...every dotted i or crossed t. Four years ago, I was a very tolerant but loving Christian. Theologically - unknowingly, I was not on solid ground. Now - surprise (to me) - I'm a literalist and my understanding has made my ground rock solid...and still more loving. Even the very best of us is unworthy. Christ's work makes us worthy to God. What I do now, as opposed to back in the day, is try to make everything I do out of love of God. Not because it looks good on me for others or for what I think would be for God's approval. He has already given this to us tho we were unworthy.

Imagine that....YOU, a "literalist"!

Isn't it amazing how clear things get when we allow God to say what He actually did say?????????

I was totally amazed to realize what I knew when I got ME out of the way and allowed the Lord God to be the director and teacher in my life. WHO KNEW!!!!

 

[Silk]

Imagine that....YOU, a "literalist"!

Isn't it amazing how clear things get when we allow God to say what He actually did say?????????

I was totally amazed to realize what I knew when I got ME out of the way and allowed the Lord God to be the director and teacher in my life. WHO KNEW!!!!

ROFL, I know....who'd a thunk it?

 

[boltardy]

But you are able to revise....and none of us understand all of it, in every detail...every dotted i or crossed t. Four years ago, I was a very tolerant but loving Christian. Theologically - unknowingly, I was not on solid ground. Now - surprise (to me) - I'm a literalist and my understanding has made my ground rock solid...

Interesting. I don't foresee myself for example taking Genesis as holding a literal account of creation but would equally concede to being stuck in a sort of "no mans land" and I do believe we are all somehow God's creations...

Revise, yes. I my quite aware that over the years I've made some terrible judgement calls and done things I regret. You can't change the past but you can try to revise your thinking.

Don't know where I go btw. I've been through a lot of trying to work things out but still hit the same "roadblocks" with Christ. Some when we were searching churches and monatstaries to try to work out if there is a bad thing that we can uproot have said, one day "I might even soar like Paul" but I don't believe that. I think it's just a way of trying to explain someone who always gets in messes and never fully gets there. But maybe one day, I do get to your sort of understanding and belief.