Many Will Say "lord, Lord..."

Brother Paul said:
Lot's wife saved? Wow! That's a leap...I have to go with Intojoy on that one...maybe we have different concepts of "salvation"....God promising to spare them is not the same as them being saved I do not think...
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read what Paul says ..
Gomorrah WAS the example of those not saved fate ..
they were told to leave the flesh behind .. and hence saved from the fire ..
yes .. a picture of salvation ..
 
Brother Paul said:
Lot's wife saved? Wow! That's a leap...I have to go with Intojoy on that one...maybe we have different concepts of "salvation"....God promising to spare them is not the same as them being saved I do not think...
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read what Paul says ..
Gomorrah WAS the example of those not saved fate ..
they were told to leave the flesh behind .. and hence saved from the fire ..
yes .. a picture of salvation ..
 
Ceile De said:
Can you show in the bible where spiritual gifts are invalid today?
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We must distinguish between the sign gifts and the gifts of the Spirit gifts. The sign gifts were for the confirmation of the spoken words of the early apostles and disciples. This was needed because the New Testament had not been completed.

The grace gifts are the enablings of God the work of the ministry in this age. They will continue to the end of the age. Though the sign gifts are usually what people mean when they refer to the gifts of the Spirit, the grace gifts also operate through the working of the Spirit of God.

Shortly after His resurrection and right before His ascension into heaven, Jesus had these words to say about the signs that would be associated with His apostles.

Mark 16:14 clearly identifies the eleven apostles......
"Afterward he appeared unto the ELEVEN as they sat at meat, and unbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen".

Then In Mark 16:17-18, we read:
"And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; [18] They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

The ones designated as the ELEVEN are clearly the THEM who had the sign gifts. Some will not accept that but when we read Hebrews 2:1-4 we have the clear proof.
"Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.
2 For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;
3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?

The ELEVEN in Mark 16 are the ones who heard Jesus tell them about the gifts He was giving to them.

Five signs are to follow them, the apostles as they preach the gospel and follow Jesus Christ and take the gospel to all parts of the world.:
  1. Casting out devils
  2. Speaking with new tongues
  3. Taking up serpents
  4. Drinking deadly things
  5. Healing the sick by the laying on of hands
Notice that it is not a pick and choose what you want but rather a package deal. The sign gifts are inclusive.
These gifts enabled the apostles to travel in very hard, wild and dry lands without suffering. These gifts were the proof to show what they were doing was from God.

Today we have the completed Word of God and "sign gifts" are not required.
 
Brother Paul said:
Once God seals you, you are sealed until the day of redemption...He who began this good work in you will also finish it...He who promised will also do it...He will NEVER leave you or forsake you....those who go out from us were never really of us.
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where does it say that ???
and what does "blot out of the Book of Life" mean ???
it means your name was removed ..
 
Mitspa said:
Its the Spirit of grace... we received it by grace...and it is clear that we can "through legalism" fall from grace and be "cut-off" from Christ...."In Grace" all the great precious promises of God are made and by grace alone do we abide in Him. If a believer rejects grace they are in fact rejecting that which saves them.. God is not rejecting or "unsaving" them..they ARE rejecting Him and His saving grace.

Ro 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
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Here is the truth and no one in any way has challenged this except to make insults and personal attacks. Yet I am the one who provokes others on this forum? I wonder if some have any real understanding of honesty and what it means to represent Christ?
 
Mitspa said:
I still don't see it....what number post ?
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http://www.christianforumsite.com/index.php?threads/Many-Will-Say-"lord,-Lord...".37702/

You are trying to prove that salvation is by works thru irrelevant context by mixing various passages together. A sort of exegetical gymnastics if you will. This passage in Galatians was not given for you to use in your private interpretation on sin to grace to sin works style salvation. It is given in a particular context of which you couldn't see the first time I posted it because your approach to scripture has now become glued to your preconceived philosophical prejudice.

You really need help. And I'm not hatin' by saying you may not even be saved yet. I'm lovin'
 
Ravindran said:
What a great verse to discuss! This would be one awesome discussion if we all stick to the topic! I think we should look at it with reference to the previous verses.. Jesus is talking about false prophets and how they could be deceiving.. And He follows that with this.. I don't think we should take this to say one can fall from grace..
Looking at the previous verses.. This is what it would mean.. We should not be deceived that signs and wonders authenticate or validate Christian faith.. It is validated only by fruits.. Just because a person is performing signs and wonders, we cannot go behind him and seek after signs.. I think it is talking about people being deceived into believing what Christian faith means.. There are many today who seek after signs.. And if signs are not there, then it is not genuine.. That is a dangerous thing.. They are living in this earth thinking they are saved.. But Jesus is saying, what they do really does not matter.. Because false signs could be done through evil force as well..
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Beloved, we must definitely look for the fruits; but we should be wary because the "...wolves in sheep's clothing..." can use "fruits" to deceive them who are called. People can be "nice", and even seem "giving", and talk behind one's back. Philanthropists "give" to good causes: but their motive might be to launder money in some way.

Workers of signs and wonders can be deceptive; but they will be found out eventually. But true signs and wonders are from the Lord: the problem is that man will use them to propagate their own agenda. Thus: "...did we not...in your NAME..."? For it is not the person that performs the healing and miracles, it is the Lord Jesus! This people just want to take the credit. Remember: it is not the man (religion or denomination); it is the NAME! And the focus is always on the person of Jesus Christ.
 
Intojoy said:
http://www.christianforumsite.com/index.php?threads/Many-Will-Say-"lord,-Lord...".37702/

You are trying to prove that salvation is by works thru irrelevant context by mixing various passages together. A sort of exegetical gymnastics if you will. This passage in Galatians was not given for you to use in your private interpretation on sin to grace to sin works style salvation. It is given in a particular context of which you couldn't see the first time I posted it because your approach to scripture has now become glued to your preconceived philosophical prejudice.

You really need help. And I'm not hatin' by saying you may not even be saved yet. I'm lovin'
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Present the scriptures? if you can?:rolleyes:
 
2Co 1:22, Eph 1:13 & Eph 4:30
NONE say it cannot be undone ..
the three verses I gave by Jesus, Paul and Peter say it can ..
especially Paul who says MADE PARTAKERS OF THE HS AND TASTED THE HEAVENLY GIFTS ..

but Lord, Lord .. did we not prophesy and cast out demons in your name ???
 
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Mitspa said:
Present the scriptures? if you can?:rolleyes:
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Jas 3:14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.
15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.
17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.
 
Mixedpah, ixioyote, I've got to get out the door for some morning evangelism. I'll come back to you later. It's time to go and tell someone that they can get their free ticket to heaven, they don't gotta do nuttin just believe

If you really don't like the pet names I'll stop just lmk

I hope you ain't gettin' misty over em. You just seem so stiff and upright I mean uptight

I'm tryin to loosen the bonds a little . I consider you friends.

Especially pm cause he said he was stayin around for me, xoxo
 
Brother Paul said:
We are saved by Grace...through faith....and that NOT of ourselves, it is the gift of God...now read and then re-read out loud (say it) Romans 11:29....please note this is the same author...
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Not sure of your point? In grace we are safe and cannot be taken from the Fathers hand... but if we turn back to law...we are subject to the warnings of the scriptures "ye are cut-off" you have fallen from grace....this is not a hard biblical concept to grasp?
 
ixoye_8 said:
2Co 1:22, Eph 1:13 & Eph 4:30
NONE say it cannot be undone ..
the three verses I gave by Jesus, Paul and Peter say it can ..
especially Paul who says MADE PARTAKERS OF THE HS AND TASTED THE HEAVENLY GIFTS ..
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You mean the writer of Hebrews (you assume is Paul)

But in context these are not the "we" "us" the writer is referring to (the saved are the we/us) so if you just read just a little further you will read "But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak."

So we see these things are being distinguished by the writer from the "things that accompany salvation"....

He is speaking to those who alleged to come to Christ but were still insisting on keeping the Law as the basis of right standing before God.
 
Ravindran said:
Well Major.. I guess the interpretation of the term "perfect" makes so much difference :) This is the problem I have in defining that to be Word of God.. Bible was not canonized for many many years after that.. So how would a common man would have collectively looked at Word of God? Also, the signs and wonders were not just performed by Apostles.. It was performed by many others.. There is no denying that.. So how are we to infer that signs and wonders were limited to Apostolic age?

I believe spiritual gifts are available for believers today also.. But the definition of spiritual gifts is abused.. It leads to 2 tier Christians.. Extra Biblical revelation.. Preachers taking authority to level the scripture.. And so on.. These are clearly not correct.. But because of the abuse, we cannot go to the extreme of saying spiritual gifts have ceased.. And a common question comes up.. Is there any genuine healing or prophesy? The answer is yes! I don't think we have people who can perform healing at will.. No! That is where people are going wrong..

I wonder why Paul would call Love as the greatest of all.. Without love, can a person pray for another person and bring healing? May be not! I always wondered about that.. Another point I always wonder is the definition of gift itself.. When a person prays for healing of another person and he or she is healed, who has the gift? Who has received the gift?

But we can debate about this all day long and change nothing about our perspectives :)
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Yes...........I agree that spiritual gifts are valid but I do not believe that "Sign gifts" are valid today. They had the purpose of validating the apostles message and protected them as they traveled. But the completed Word of God makes them not necessary today IMO.

I would caution against x-tra Biblical revelation as you do because it always leads to un-scrupulous people who love that phrase....
"God has spoken to me and said...............".

Now does God heal the sick then. I hope to tell you that HE does. But not a man welding the Holy Spirit like a magic wand.

The spiritual gifts that I believe are in fact the ones told to us in the Scriptures......
Galatians 5:22-23
King James Version (KJV)
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
 
Mitspa said:
Not sure of your point? In grace we are safe and cannot be taken from the Fathers hand... but if we turn back to law...we are subject to the warnings of the scriptures "ye are cut-off" you have fallen from grace....this is not a hard biblical concept to grasp?
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You have not the power to pluck yourself from the Father's hand....
 
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