God's Intervention? Intervening Power?

[Musicmaster]

Huh?

There are some hyper-charismatics out there who teach about God's alleged "intervening power."

What is that? How does that work? Where does the Bible elude to such a power that actually needs to be exercised at all by the Most High?

I found an instance where the word "intervene" exists in English translations, specifically in the NIV for Isaiah 59:16, which is not a reference to God at all, and the NKJV for Zephaniah 2:7, which IS a reference to an act by God, but is not necessarily the best translated word in that instance, and is therefore misleading.

Why?

Well, to say that the Lord must intervene in any life or event in this world is to imply that the Lord does not exercise His powerful control over even the atoms in this universe. I like how Justin Peters put it when referring to the most distant galaxy, billions of light years from earth, and point to just one random atom in the center of a random star, a Hydrogen atom, and observing that the Lord is actively holding that atom together, even though it's too far away to have any measurable effect upon us here, on this planet...even there His consisting power is holding that atom together.

Collasians 1:17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon defines the Greek word translated "consist" in this way:

"to cohere, hold together: τά πάντα συνέστηκεν ἐν αὐτῷ, Colossians 1:17"

Without that consistent, never relaxed for an instant, power, the entire universe, including our bodies, would "come unglued." Yes, everything would become vapor and just expand outward through space.

Therefore, to presume the Lord is as the Deists believe, in that He wound things up like a clock spring, only to occasionally return and "intervene" where He had lost control because of boredom or some other "deific malady" Deists presume about THEIR god...no. The Lord is always engaged and in total control to the extend that He never needs to intervene. Every event, every happening, even crime, every blessing, every healing, every death from disease...it ALL is within the purview of His Sovereign oversight.

What are your thoughts?

MM

 

[LearningToLetGo]

What are your thoughts?

What is the point of prayer?

 

[In Awe of Him]

Wow....this is a fascinating topic. I believe it is also a very complex topic because there are so many "real time" and fluid variables at play.

God is absolutely All Powerful and ALIVE as well as in control at all times of all things. = The Sovereignty of God

4 indeed, he who watches over Israel will neither slumber nor sleep.​

5 The Lord watches over you—the Lord is your shade at your right hand;
6 the sun will not harm you by day, nor the moon by night.
~Psalm 121:4-6

God never changes.

8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
~Hebrews 13:8

With the above firmly established, seeking to understand God's intervention in our lives becomes ( in my opinion ) a promise
by God of protection, comfort, safety, security as a believer in Christ, and refuge for the weak, broken and sinful humans who desire
to repent and seek forgiveness.

I don't view intervention as GOD swooping in and casually rescuing us from trouble ( although sometimes HE does just that ).
Intervention/intervening I believe is what GOD does for Christians on a daily basis. I guess I see intervention as the DEFAULT promise
that God gives His children on a constant basis.

Someone asked What is the purpose of prayer? I see prayer as communion and conversation with God on an intimate level, with the intention
of finding out/understanding His Will and Purpose in any given situation. It is a request on our part and then a surrender on our part to accept that God will accomplish His Will in all things.

I don't know if I explained my thoughts efficiently,or if I even chimed in on the topic properly. This is what I got from reading the OP.

There is also the question. Does/Can God change his mind with petition and prayer? This seems to be what some believe to mean when the word INTERVENTION is used. I do not believe God changes His mind. I believe it is ALWAYS His purpose to bring GOOD and TRUTH. That does not mean that EVIL will not visit us or that bad things will not affect us. It simply means that GOD sees all, knows all and ALWAYS has a plan to turn things for HIS GOOD.

 

[Musicmaster]

What is the point of prayer?

Good question. After all:

Matthew 6:8 "Therefore do not be like them. For your Father knows the things you have need of before you ask Him.

There we go. So, the surface answer would be that there's no need...however...

What REALLY is at play when we pray?

Relationship.

So, what does the word "intervene" mean, as stated at dictionary.com?

1. to come between disputing people, groups, etc.; intercede; mediate.
2. to occur or be between two things.

Does anything surprise the Lord? Did He not see every event, every word spoken, every action, before this world ever was?

There are those who would answer this in the affirmative, and some would then caveat this with the idea that this takes away free will.

To that, I would say an emphatic NO. Where it's true that the Lord knows all, both past and OUR future, it is WE who do not know it, and there is reason to believe that our choices are controlled by the Lord. This delves into a realm of reality with which none of us has ever had any experience.

What I mean by this is that, dare we think this through deeply enough, the greater implications begin to take shape in our understanding. The Lord is not reactionary, and He is not proactive to the extent that He has to head off something that got in His way as if it were un-foreseen.

For example, two children head toward one another to fight, the parents see what's about to take place, and they intervene. Is it that way with the Lord? I would hope that we can all agree that it is not. Timelessness has that advantage.

So, back to your observation, there is no relationship without prayer. Our prayers are so very precious to the Lord that He keeps them in a vessel before His Throne. They are powerful because He is the One who empowered them.

What's your thoughts on that?

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

Wow....this is a fascinating topic. I believe it is also a very complex topic because there are so many "real time" and fluid variables at play.

God is absolutely All Powerful and ALIVE as well as in control at all times of all things. = The Sovereignty of God

4 indeed, he who watches over Israel will neither slumber nor sleep.​

5 The Lord watches over you—the Lord is your shade at your right hand;
6 the sun will not harm you by day, nor the moon by night.
~Psalm 121:4-6

God never changes.

8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
~Hebrews 13:8

Good stuff. Thank you.

With the above firmly established, seeking to understand God's intervention in our lives becomes ( in my opinion ) a promise
by God of protection, comfort, safety, security as a believer in Christ, and refuge for the weak, broken and sinful humans who desire
to repent and seek forgiveness.

There is the concept of intervention, which is only enacted by we who exist within the constraints of ignorance of future things, and being trapped within time.

The Lord, on the other hand, who is not constrained by ignorance, He is not reactionary like we are. Time does not drive Him to do anything. The Lord who saw it all from before the beginning of this realm, He fashioned, designed if you will, all things based upon His foreknowledge of each individual.

I like this topic because it betrays the weaknesses in so much of human understanding of the Lord's very Nature and Being.

Intervention only applies in the lives of all who are constrained within time as being reactionary. I cannot see how He who is not constrained by time and borders to understanding can be said to be reactionary in the sense of intervention. Intervention is somewhat the definition of being reactionary, and vice versa.

I don't view intervention as GOD swooping in and casually rescuing us from trouble ( although sometimes HE does just that ).

Or, and if I may posit another thought here...He foresaw it all before the world ever was, and had initiated a design of things beyond the scope of our comprehension and purview, thus ensuring it all went according to His foreplan, and yet it having the appearance to human eyes as intervention...

Someone asked What is the purpose of prayer? I see prayer as communion and conversation with God on an intimate level, with the intention
of finding out/understanding His Will and Purpose in any given situation. It is a request on our part and then a surrender on our part to accept that God will accomplish His Will in all things.

Good point.

I don't know if I explained my thoughts efficiently,or if I even chimed in on the topic properly. This is what I got from reading the OP.

That's why we're here...to perfect our thinking as best as can be, and grow in it.

There is also the question. Does/Can God change his mind with petition and prayer? This seems to be what some believe to mean when the word INTERVENTION is used. I do not believe God changes His mind. I believe it is ALWAYS His purpose to bring GOOD and TRUTH. That does not mean that EVIL will not visit us or that bad things will not affect us. It simply means that GOD sees all, knows all and ALWAYS has a plan to turn things for HIS GOOD.

If we are to embrace the concept of God changing His Mind, that implies, again, a measure of blindness on the part of the Most High, which I am finding impossible to embrace as a defining characteristic of His Nature. We do see that the Lord experiences what appears to be great emotion throughout it all, as various times, but I don't think that means He must take blindfolds off His eyes to suddenly see what's about to happen in order for there to be any necessity for intervention, keeping in mind Matthew 6:8 above.

MM

 

[In Awe of Him]

I like this topic because it betrays the weaknesses in so much of human understanding of the Lord's very Nature and Being.

I love these words. I am comfortable in my position of NOT being God and therefore not HAVING to know anything
other than what God needs to reveal to me. I am small, weak, frail, tainted by my experience, human, sinful. This allows
me the freedom to RELY COMPLETELY and to TRUST and BELIEVE ABSOLUTELY in the FAITHFULNESS of God.

 

[Musicmaster]

I love these words. I am comfortable in my position of NOT being God and therefore not HAVING to know anything
other than what God needs to reveal to me. I am small, weak, frail, tainted by my experience, human, sinful. This allows
me the freedom to RELY COMPLETELY and to TRUST and BELIEVE ABSOLUTELY in the FAITHFULNESS of God.

Some of my most favorite verses in the Bible:

1 John 2:26-27
26 These things I have written to you concerning those who [try to] deceive you.
27 But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.

Isn't it wonderful to have such a promise? This shows to us all that we are not ever left to our own devices and imaginations, but that the Lord teaches us, and gives to us understanding, of things that are beyond our perceptions and ability to grasp.

Amen.

MM

 

[BibleLover]

Huh?

There are some hyper-charismatics out there who teach about God's alleged "intervening power."

What is that? How does that work? Where does the Bible elude to such a power that actually needs to be exercised at all by the Most High?

I found an instance where the word "intervene" exists in English translations, specifically in the NIV for Isaiah 59:16, which is not a reference to God at all, and the NKJV for Zephaniah 2:7, which IS a reference to an act by God, but is not necessarily the best translated word in that instance, and is therefore misleading.

Why?

Well, to say that the Lord must intervene in any life or event in this world is to imply that the Lord does not exercise His powerful control over even the atoms in this universe. I like how Justin Peters put it when referring to the most distant galaxy, billions of light years from earth, and point to just one random atom in the center of a random star, a Hydrogen atom, and observing that the Lord is actively holding that atom together, even though it's too far away to have any measurable effect upon us here, on this planet...even there His consisting power is holding that atom together.

Collasians 1:17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon defines the Greek word translated "consist" in this way:

"to cohere, hold together: τά πάντα συνέστηκεν ἐν αὐτῷ, Colossians 1:17"

Without that consistent, never relaxed for an instant, power, the entire universe, including our bodies, would "come unglued." Yes, everything would become vapor and just expand outward through space.

Therefore, to presume the Lord is as the Deists believe, in that He wound things up like a clock spring, only to occasionally return and "intervene" where He had lost control because of boredom or some other "deific malady" Deists presume about THEIR god...no. The Lord is always engaged and in total control to the extend that He never needs to intervene. Every event, every happening, even crime, every blessing, every healing, every death from disease...it ALL is within the purview of His Sovereign oversight.

What are your thoughts?

MM

Wow! I'm baffled as to why any Christian would hold to a Deistic theology. Our very relationship with God contradicts such a notion. Thanks for the thread. God bless you and yours, brother.

 

[In Awe of Him]

Isn't it wonderful to have such a promise? This shows to us all that we are not ever left to our own devices and imaginations, but that the Lord teaches us, and gives to us understanding, of things that are beyond our perceptions and ability to grasp.

Amen.

Yes, It is so wonderful to have such a promise. I think the fact that I have a simple mind and am comfortable with the NOT KNOWING of so many
things, has allowed me to walk boldly in this exact truth that I am not ever left alone to my own devices and imaginations. I often fall short of the practical implications of executing this in my daily walk, however, I am learning a lot about being slow to speak aswell as taking the time to seek God in all circumstances.

This has been an absolutely uplifting conversation. Thank you for your beautiful words.

 

[LearningToLetGo]

Matthew 6:8 "Therefore do not be like them. For your Father knows the things you have need of before you ask Him.

There we go. So, the surface answer would be that there's no need...however...

What REALLY is at play when we pray?

Relationship.

What's your thoughts on that?

That's a lot to think about.

Jesus does tell us, "Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you" (Mathew 7:7) so there seems to be more to prayer than relationship.

 

[Major]

Huh?

There are some hyper-charismatics out there who teach about God's alleged "intervening power."

What is that? How does that work? Where does the Bible elude to such a power that actually needs to be exercised at all by the Most High?

I found an instance where the word "intervene" exists in English translations, specifically in the NIV for Isaiah 59:16, which is not a reference to God at all, and the NKJV for Zephaniah 2:7, which IS a reference to an act by God, but is not necessarily the best translated word in that instance, and is therefore misleading.

Why?

Well, to say that the Lord must intervene in any life or event in this world is to imply that the Lord does not exercise His powerful control over even the atoms in this universe. I like how Justin Peters put it when referring to the most distant galaxy, billions of light years from earth, and point to just one random atom in the center of a random star, a Hydrogen atom, and observing that the Lord is actively holding that atom together, even though it's too far away to have any measurable effect upon us here, on this planet...even there His consisting power is holding that atom together.

Collasians 1:17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon defines the Greek word translated "consist" in this way:

"to cohere, hold together: τά πάντα συνέστηκεν ἐν αὐτῷ, Colossians 1:17"

Without that consistent, never relaxed for an instant, power, the entire universe, including our bodies, would "come unglued." Yes, everything would become vapor and just expand outward through space.

Therefore, to presume the Lord is as the Deists believe, in that He wound things up like a clock spring, only to occasionally return and "intervene" where He had lost control because of boredom or some other "deific malady" Deists presume about THEIR god...no. The Lord is always engaged and in total control to the extend that He never needs to intervene. Every event, every happening, even crime, every blessing, every healing, every death from disease...it ALL is within the purview of His Sovereign oversight.

What are your thoughts?

MM

I can not say that I have heard of what you are saying.

I have heard in the past of some extreme groups who said that they could change the course of Hurricanes through prayer.

Now having said that, it is clear that Divine intervention can be God causing something to happen or God preventing something from happening.

At one end of the Christian spectrum are believers who view virtually everything as an example of divine intervention. At the other end are those believers who say God is sitting on the porch watching time go by.

What I think is that nothing happens that God does not ordain, cause, or allow. We are constantly surrounded by divine intervention, and uselly we are ignorant of it or blind to it. We will never know all of the times and all of the ways God intervenes in our lives. Divine intervention can come in the form of a miracle, such as a healing or supernatural sign.

However, IMHO, Divine intervention can also come in the form of a seemingly random event which directs us in the way God wants us to go. Maybe a phone call keeps you in the house for 10 seconds that saved you from a car wreck.
Maybe a word from a friend sends you to a persons side who would never have known you were there.

But the Bible does not instruct us to seek hidden spiritual meanings in everyday life events.

 

[Musicmaster]

That's a lot to think about.

Jesus does tell us, "Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you" (Mathew 7:7) so there seems to be more to prayer than relationship.

There absolutely is. Yes. I fully agree.

The issue, however, is that God is not reactive given that He knows everything from beginning to end, and that He is in total control. For some to say that the Lord is reactionary, and therefore out of control of all things, leading to His having to intervene, that's just not something the Bible teaches us.

To lay it out in a nut shell...people realize their own limitations, and so they superimpose those human limitation over upon the Lord, as if it could ever stick. We, as humans with all our limitations, currently stuck in the realm of time, WE are those who exercise intervention. For them to try and force that over onto a Lord who is all-powerful, all-knowing and omni-present, it strains at the outer edges of credulity for anyone to suggest that the Lord intervenes in the things of this world as if there were/are. or will be, things that He did not foresee.

Your question of prayer, recall the verse where it says that He knows what we need in advance of our asking. In the overall design of this universe, He had already created what will bring about the fulfillment of needs without His ever having to be reactionary to it all. Isn't that fantastic? Isn't that the measure of Deity that we can grasp in our limited capacity to grapple with the enormity of His limitless intelligence and abilities? Wow. It's something to think about.

MM

 

[bobinfaith]

Hello Musicmaster;

I know you want others to challenge themselves, grasp and learn God's Word and develop their own understanding and application in their lives. I also know some readers may become discouraged because they feel their thoughts may not align with what you are teaching.

Christians need to learn to speak (and keyboard) from their own words and heart. I do with confidence and reliance with what the Lord has built me up as a disciple to say and do. If I get it wrong, (then humble down, Bob) that is part of learning and I would rather get it wrong from my own lips and heart instead of relying on what someone else said.

When I read and re-read God's Intervention? Intervening Power? I say yes to God's intervention and intervening power. Psalm 121 is a short and good example of God's divine intervention.

Psalm 121, 1 I lift up my eyes to the hills. From where does my help come? 2 My help comes from the Lord, who made heaven and earth.
3 He will not let your foot be moved; he who keeps you will not slumber. 4 Behold, he who keeps Israel will neither slumber nor sleep. 5 The Lord is your keeper; the Lord is your shade on your right hand. 6 The sun shall not strike you by day, nor the moon by night. 7 The Lord will keep you from all evil; he will keep your life. 8 The Lord will keep your going out and your coming in from this time forth and forevermore. - ESV

We actually sang this beautiful praise "song" back in the days of our music ministry in the Church. It assured me of God's guidance to the hills of Jerusalem, meaning, though we may seem far from God in our lives, He is always there and protecting us during our journeys. We don't have to wait until we arrive because the Almighty is already with us.

God is personal to each one of us as our sovereign protector and provider which is in the mix of an intervening spirit. In verse 3 He who keeps you is raised 6 times - He who keeps you, He who keeps Israel, The Lord is your keeper, The Lord will keep you, He will keep your life, The Lord will keep your going out and coming in;

This is Almighty God's way of preserving you, thus, His intervention.

MM, please correct me if I'm understanding or misunderstanding you in the last paragraph of your opening thread; if anyone entertains the thought of God losing his intervention (noun) or intervening (adjective) in our lives is untruthful. That is not our God.

Deists have their tiptoe belief in God but limit His Intervention instead of ALL THINGS.

Example, this morning my wife asked me a simple little request of pulling our tax return 2022 for a document she needed. I'm wobbling (I have a cast on my left foot) to the fire safe in our bedroom and after several tries I couldn't get the bloody safe to open even with the combination on the owner's manual. I was getting frustrated but no doubt God who is omnipresent was still watching.

What's the point of praying? Afterall, I got this. Wrong. I prayed (communicating) and asked God to point out my flaw and asked Him to guide me in opening the safe so I can pull our tax return for reasons that would benefit another and most of all, to reveal God's glory, not our credit.

After almost 30 years of the same combination and fire safe, I looked at the combination booklet again and began to turn the dial. It opened! Praise Him! It may not have been a big deal but to us it was an even bigger deal when we opened the safe. We gave all the praise and thanksgiving to God for His intervention or intervening power, no matter how small or big.

God bless you, MM and thank you for sharing this thought provoking topic.

Bob

 

[Musicmaster]

That's a lot to think about.

Jesus does tell us, "Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you" (Mathew 7:7) so there seems to be more to prayer than relationship.

Back on the topic of prayer, and how it relates to this topic, I'm going to venture to say that the idea that prayer changes the course of anything that the Lord allegedly foresaw as there being some sort of proverbial fork in the road...no. He who saw ALL before anything ever was, that just places outside the realm of possibility any vestige of potential for God being a reactive Being.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

Hello Musicmaster;

I know you want others to challenge themselves, grasp and learn God's Word and develop their own understanding and application in their lives. I also know some readers may become discouraged because they feel their thoughts may not align with what you are teaching.

Christians need to learn to speak (and keyboard) from their own words and heart. I do with confidence and reliance with what the Lord has built me up as a disciple to say and do. If I get it wrong, (then humble down, Bob) that is part of learning and I would rather get it wrong from my own lips and heart instead of relying on what someone else said.

When I read and re-read God's Intervention? Intervening Power? I say yes to God's intervention and intervening power. Psalm 121 is a short and good example of God's divine intervention.

Question, Bob: What version has "intervene" in Pslam 121. I can't find it, or is that an interpretation?

Psalm 121, 1 I lift up my eyes to the hills. From where does my help come? 2 My help comes from the Lord, who made heaven and earth.
3 He will not let your foot be moved; he who keeps you will not slumber. 4 Behold, he who keeps Israel will neither slumber nor sleep. 5 The Lord is your keeper; the Lord is your shade on your right hand. 6 The sun shall not strike you by day, nor the moon by night. 7 The Lord will keep you from all evil; he will keep your life. 8 The Lord will keep your going out and your coming in from this time forth and forevermore. - ESV

We actually sang this beautiful praise "song" back in the days of our music ministry in the Church. It assured me of God's guidance to the hills of Jerusalem, meaning, though we may seem far from God in our lives, He is always there and protecting us during our journeys. We don't have to wait until we arrive because the Almighty is already with us.

God is personal to each one of us as our sovereign protector and provider which is in the mix of an intervening spirit. In verse 3 He who keeps you is raised 6 times - He who keeps you, He who keeps Israel, The Lord is your keeper, The Lord will keep you, He will keep your life, The Lord will keep your going out and coming in;

This is Almighty God's way of preserving you, thus, His intervention.

MM, please correct me if I'm understanding or misunderstanding you in the last paragraph of your opening thread; if anyone entertains the thought of God losing his intervention (noun) or intervening (adjective) in our lives is untruthful. That is not our God.

Deists have their tiptoe belief in God but limit His Intervention of ALL THINGS.

Example, this morning my wife asked me a simple little request of pulling our tax return 2022 for a document she needed. I'm wobbling (I have a cast on my left foot) to the fire safe in our bedroom and after several tries I couldn't get the bloody safe to open even with the combination on the owner's manual. I was getting frustrated but no doubt God who is omnipresent was still watching.

What's the point of praying? Afterall, I got this. Wrong. I prayed (communicating) and asked God to point out my flaw and asked Him to guide me in opening the safe so I can pull our tax return for reasons that would benefit another and most of all, to reveal God's glory, not our credit.

After almost 30 years of the same combination and fire safe, I looked at the combination booklet again and began to turn the dial. It opened! Praise Him! It may not have been a big deal but to us it was an even bigger deal when we opened the safe. We gave all the praise and thanksgiving to God for His intervention or intervening power, no matter how small or big.

God bless you, MM and thank you for sharing this thought provoking topic.

Bob

Perhaps another way of putting all this is for us to codify terminology within the context of this discussion:

Matthew 6:8 "Therefore do not be like them. For your Father knows the things you have need of before you ask Him.

This verse is the sounding board, if you will, for the strength of what I'm positing in this thread.

Folks, I'm all about correction on any and all discussions, so no need to feel as if you have nothing of value to challenge this topic. This isn't about me nor the strength of anyone's intellectual character, mine included. I don't take personal the challenges set forth. I only seek to discuss the merits of what I is discussed herein, in writing, as to the reasons for my present stance and that of others. My feet aren't planted so firmly in concrete that I cannot be moved. If that were the case, then there's no need to discuss at all.

My purpose in all this is to discover together that most glorious, perfect, all-powerful, all-knowing and omni-present Lord we call God; to delve deeper into who He is, what He does, Why He does it if possible, and thus sharpen our understanding for the clarity in our own minds about the Lord we should all desire to know more intimately, more deeply, and more inclusively those things that we do not yet know, and eradicate those things that we THOUGHT we knew about him, and that need to be discarded in order to keep the falsehoods from cluttering our spiritual vision.

As always, Bob, thanks for helping me to understand the need for me to state openly that this is a topic that everyone should feel comfortable in commenting and sharing. I may be quite strong in my challenges and statements, but that's only to help drive others to offer stronger and more resilient thoughts on this topic for us all to consider. Playing the strong advocate for the topical assumptions and declarations I have made is what helps me to keep this thread on-topic.

Blessings and love to you all.

MM

 

[bobinfaith]

Question, Bob: What version has "intervene" in Pslam 121. I can't find it, or is that an interpretation?

Hello MM;

The word intervene doesn't appear in Psalm 121 but the context (or interpretation) as in so many OT and NT Scripture points to God's intervention or intervening spirit.

To answer those who are reading into this answer, think of the word Trinity. It doesn't appear in Scripture but throughout the Bible God reveals Himself as One - Father, Son, Holy Spirit.

God bless you, MM.

 

[LearningToLetGo]

Back on the topic of prayer, and how it relates to this topic, I'm going to venture to say that the idea that prayer changes the course of anything that the Lord allegedly foresaw as there being some sort of proverbial fork in the road...no. He who saw ALL before anything ever was, that just places outside the realm of possibility any vestige of potential for God being a reactive Being.

MM

I refer you to Isaiah 55:9, "For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts."

We don't know God's point of view. Whether he responds to our prayers or pre-ordains that we first pray, who knows. Not unlike Chekhov's gun, perhaps it's been there all along and we just failed to notice until it was fired.

 

[Musicmaster]

I refer you to Isaiah 55:9, "For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts."

We don't know God's point of view. Whether he responds to our prayers or pre-ordains that we first pray, who knows. Not unlike Chekhov's gun, perhaps it's been there all along and we just failed to notice until it was fired.

You know, I REALLY like that verse from Isaiah. When I studied that in more detail and depth some years ago, something that became more and more apparent to me about that context is that the Lord nowhere in that section of scripture, or anywhere else I could find, ever disallowed our asking Him for His thoughts and His ways, regardless of how much higher than ours that they are. Do you see that?

You know, because I incorporated asking Him for His Thoughts and His Ways, and that He would fill me with them to the extent that He knows I'm able to handle, things really began to open up as I continued reading and studying scripture systematically.

He alone has the ability to absolutely confirm and to deny within our hearts the things that are truth and what are not truth. (1 John 2:26-27)

The journey He should lead us all through in deeper understanding of Him should be authoritatively led only by Him. We can share with one another, encourage one another in the deeper things of God's word, but only He can confirm and establish what is absolute truth, and what is not.

That's the beauty behind what Christ said when He promised:

Hebrews 13:5 [Let your] conduct [be] without covetousness; [be] content with such things as you have. For He Himself has said, "I will never leave you nor forsake you."

Wow. It's in His uplifting that this journey toward the Growth in our faith that only He can supply in the measure for climbing to that highest stature, which is the fullness of the stature of Christ, yeah. That's the direction I seek to be always progressing, ever growing. That is the motivation behind the journey of discovery about those things that go to comprise a deeper sense of who He is.

That's therefore what pushed me to dig deeper into the oft resounding theme of God being a reactionary...He who saw it all from before the beginning. That's heavy stuff, and I love sharing with others so that they too can seek Him out for His thoughts and His ways.

Like Vernon McGee always said...let's put the cookies on the lower shelf so the kiddies can get to them too. Well, this kiddie has an appetite...

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

Hello MM;

The word intervene doesn't appear in Psalm 121 but the context (or interpretation) as in so many OT and NT Scripture points to God's intervention or intervening spirit.

To answer those who are reading into this answer, think of the word Trinity. It doesn't appear in Scripture but throughout the Bible God reveals Himself as One - Father, Son, Holy Spirit.

God bless you, MM.

Thank you, Bob. This is what I'm looking for.

Please give to us examples of what can be said to be reactionistic intervening on the part of the Lord, meaning that the Lord absolutely did not already address from before the beginning of time by having set in motion, in this creation, the outflow that we see through our eyes right now.

Now, please understand that I'm not trying to be manipulative when applying the adjective of "reactionistic." Intervention, by implication and meaning, clearly is a term that describes the belief that something the Lord did was His manipulation against an alternate course that would otherwise have been outside His prefect Will, and thus His power of "consist" was not in full control in order for the need that He "intervene."

Blessings

MM

 

[bobinfaith]

Thank you, Bob. This is what I'm looking for. Please give to us examples of what can be said to be reactionistic intervening on the part of the Lord, meaning that the Lord absolutely did not already address from before the beginning of time by having set in motion, in this creation, the outflow that we see through our eyes right now.

Hello MM;

I'll be happy to whether in Scripture or by what we see through our eyes now. Please give me a moment to pray for a word before I write.

I also want to encourage others to join in so it becomes an blessed opportunity of fellowship.

Thanks, MM.