God's Intervention? Intervening Power?

Please give to us examples of what can be said to be "reactionistic" intervening on the part of the Lord, meaning that the Lord absolutely did not already address from before the beginning of time by having set in motion, in this creation, the outflow that we see through our eyes right now.

The Christian believer, especially a seasoned Christian can give many examples of the intervention or intervening part of the Lord. We are always surrounded by divine intervention, even those times when we are numb or blind to it, as we grow in Christ we begin to feel the joy of reacting to God's intervening.

I have never heard the combination of "reactionistic intervening" of God but it's a wording that I'll answer. First, I feel whether God made things known timely or not timely is going to receive a reaction from a believer no matter what. Personally, I'm not numb to anything "the Lord does" and this is a good thing in my faith.

For the unbeliever, those who are halfway in belief of God cannot receive the full "reactionistic intervening" on the part of the Lord. There always has to be a worldy explanation to them and this is sad because it limits the unbeliever while remaining in an earthly box of disbelieving miracles.

What are not examples of "reactionistic intervening" on the Lord's part is when a person spends his last 10 bucks at the liquor store "wishing oneself good luck" and wins the lottery. Or, nearly broke due from not holding down a job and forcing oneself to succeed in getting a loan for a new car. Or cutting corners (untruthful intentions) in order to marry a stunning man or woman and calling it a marriage from heaven. In all these they claim it was "God's work" but there is no true confession of "God's glory."

Small or huge, believers can explain their reactionary joy from the intervention of God. The parents of a dying infant survives the worst of illness and actually see the intervening of God's great healing, the spouse who loses it's life partner unexpectedly receives a miracle of another spouse sent by God, the young couple who lose their newborn baby brings the couple closer together in their faith, or the Bible revealing the many, many affairs of the earth from Genesis through Revelation. To the believer, these are the joyful reactions to the miracles of God.

Also, God does not "do God" by chance, it's His ordained sovereign choice reference Romans 9. Though we won't know all the times and ways God intervenes in our lives, His miracles, healing or supernatural signs, we will always be awed not just by God's intervention but constantly seeking His direction, not secret signs.

God bless you all and your families.

Bob
 
The Christian believer, especially a seasoned Christian can give many examples of the intervention or intervening part of the Lord. We are always surrounded by divine intervention, even those times when we are numb or blind to it, as we grow in Christ we begin to feel the joy of reacting to God's intervening.

I have never heard the combination of "reactionistic intervening" of God but it's a wording that I'll answer. First, I feel whether God made things known timely or not timely is going to receive a reaction from a believer no matter what. Personally, I'm not numb to anything "the Lord does" and this is a good thing in my faith.

For the unbeliever, those who are halfway in belief of God cannot receive the full "reactionistic intervening" on the part of the Lord. There always has to be a worldy explanation to them and this is sad because it limits the unbeliever while remaining in an earthly box of disbelieving miracles.

What are not examples of "reactionistic intervening" on the Lord's part is when a person spends his last 10 bucks at the liquor store "wishing oneself good luck" and wins the lottery. Or, nearly broke due from not holding down a job and forcing oneself to succeed in getting a loan for a new car. Or cutting corners (untruthful intentions) in order to marry a stunning man or woman and calling it a marriage from heaven. In all these they claim it was "God's work" but there is no true confession of "God's glory."

Small or huge, believers can explain their reactionary joy from the intervention of God. The parents of a dying infant survives the worst of illness and actually see the intervening of God's great healing, the spouse who loses it's life partner unexpectedly receives a miracle of another spouse sent by God, the young couple who lose their newborn baby brings the couple closer together in their faith, or the Bible revealing the many, many affairs of the earth from Genesis through Revelation. To the believer, these are the joyful reactions to the miracles of God.

Also, God does not "do God" by chance, it's His ordained sovereign choice reference Romans 9. Though we won't know all the times and ways God intervenes in our lives, His miracles, healing or supernatural signs, we will always be awed not just by God's intervention but constantly seeking His direction, not secret signs.

God bless you all and your families.

Bob
These words that you have spoken have fallen upon me like a majestic waterfall that one stands under for refreshing.

I have recently undergone the most difficult trial of my lifetime. I was completely blind-sided and did not see any of it coming.
It was fast and furious, like a tornado that touches down and destroys everything in its path and then there is the haunting quiet that
follows. Afterwards, begins the task of assessing the damage and then preparing for clean up. I am convinced that every precious believer in Christ at some point undergoes this kind of experience. There are no words to properly articulate the pain, confusion, grief and despair that follows a sudden and deep loss. The fact that sometimes we don't have a clue what is about to clobber us because we were not prepared or warned makes the blow even more difficult to accept.

One week from today will mark my 3rd month anniversary of having lost everything dear to my heart. ( and no, I did not lose a loved one to death, however it does feel like the same thing ). As I am writing this, I am fully aware that I am new here, and so I need to ensure that what I choose to share is something I am going to be able to live with because once I press the "post reply", I will never be able to erase or take back my words.

All the above to state. I have FELT and EXPERIENCED the supernatural INTERVENTION of God on so many levels these last three months, that it would take me weeks to list all the ways. It makes me wonder if the word intervention can be interchanged with the concept of mercy and grace. WE are told that His mercies are NEW every morning. When things are going well... I think we often take a great many promises for granted.
When catastrophe hits us, the reality of our weak and fragile nature is laid raw and exposed. However, in my experience, this is where God's intervention really shines the brightest.

I do believe without a doubt that God is EVERYTHING the bible states HE is. HE IS the great I AM. That sounds so distant and so unattainable yet time and time again, I have seen and experienced that GOD ( the one who foreknew absolutely everything ) came down to my world and in a tangible way, revealed His goodness, provision, and protection over me. That is something that my little brain simply cannot understand, but it is something that I am so very grateful for.

In my opinion, God's intervention is simply a loving FATHER/CREATOR, delighting in coming to the rescue of His beloved children.
 
The Christian believer, especially a seasoned Christian can give many examples of the intervention or intervening part of the Lord. We are always surrounded by divine intervention, even those times when we are numb or blind to it, as we grow in Christ we begin to feel the joy of reacting to God's intervening.

I have never heard the combination of "reactionistic intervening" of God but it's a wording that I'll answer. First, I feel whether God made things known timely or not timely is going to receive a reaction from a believer no matter what. Personally, I'm not numb to anything "the Lord does" and this is a good thing in my faith.

For the unbeliever, those who are halfway in belief of God cannot receive the full "reactionistic intervening" on the part of the Lord. There always has to be a worldy explanation to them and this is sad because it limits the unbeliever while remaining in an earthly box of disbelieving miracles.

What are not examples of "reactionistic intervening" on the Lord's part is when a person spends his last 10 bucks at the liquor store "wishing oneself good luck" and wins the lottery. Or, nearly broke due from not holding down a job and forcing oneself to succeed in getting a loan for a new car. Or cutting corners (untruthful intentions) in order to marry a stunning man or woman and calling it a marriage from heaven. In all these they claim it was "God's work" but there is no true confession of "God's glory."

Small or huge, believers can explain their reactionary joy from the intervention of God. The parents of a dying infant survives the worst of illness and actually see the intervening of God's great healing, the spouse who loses it's life partner unexpectedly receives a miracle of another spouse sent by God, the young couple who lose their newborn baby brings the couple closer together in their faith, or the Bible revealing the many, many affairs of the earth from Genesis through Revelation. To the believer, these are the joyful reactions to the miracles of God.

Also, God does not "do God" by chance, it's His ordained sovereign choice reference Romans 9. Though we won't know all the times and ways God intervenes in our lives, His miracles, healing or supernatural signs, we will always be awed not just by God's intervention but constantly seeking His direction, not secret signs.

God bless you all and your families.

Bob

Thank you, Bob. I understand your response, because pointing at any one thing in specific does indeed run aground onto the beaches of "assumption" on our part because of the limited scope of our ability to see beyond the merely physical.

So, what, then, is the answer to it all?

Well, let's explore this some: Dare we point at some event that we feel the inkling to declare there was an intervening act of God involved, or an angel, et al, we have to ask ourselves, "I see X number of potential outcome paths for what MIGHT have been, and yet XXXXXX was the actual outcome, so God MUST have intervened since those other outcomes did not play out!" Hmm. Really? To say that they were at all possible outcomes under the infinite power and control of the Lord, is that a legitimate observation on our part?

I've heard many times from people, "Well, if only Adam had not sinned, we all would be living blissful lives in the garden..."

Really? Is the basis of our labeling any given outcome, or set of outcomes, in the face of our imagining the existence of potential alternatives, does that ever lend any authority to our declaring something as God's alleged "intervention"?

The implication, therefore, is that the label of "intervention" finds itself in the mire and muck of subjectivity, and thus calls into question the absolute control our Lord exercises. In other words, we must assume a subjectively measured amount of lack in God's control. Do we see that anywhere in the Bible? THAT is the thrust of what I seek, and have not found.

This also begs the question...how can I be for certain that any of the other outcomes might ever have even been possible in the economy of God's Sovereign control over everything?

After all, we are indeed told in the Bible of God's absolute control over all of creation down to the level of the atoms that comprise our bodies, this planet, this solar system of ours, and even that hydrogen atom in the center of that star in the most distant galaxy at the very edge of the universe.

You see, this goes to yet another of countless reasons for us to admire, worship and praise the Lord whose power is great and wondrous.

Now, if we look at the Bible where the Lord warned of potential if-then outcomes to His chosen people Israel, such as obedience versus disobedience to Torah, even though Israel promised they would obey it all, did not the Lord know in advance that they would disobey? Did He not already know of their stiff-necked character as a nation? Can we say, then, that, on the basis of that knowledge, the Lord had already set in motion, through His creative power from back before the world ever was, His own plans and stimuli in all the atoms, all the forces of nature, that He controls, and did so on the basis of what He already knew was the outcome?

Now, everyone, please understand that I'm not saying that it's wrong to assume either way in relation to this topic. The Lord never did command that we understand the nature of His Sovereignty over all of creation. We know only what He has inspired to be written, and what He reveals in individual lives.

(Also, I'm not suggesting that the Cannon is not closed, so let's avoid that rabbit hole.)

What we CAN say for sure if that He is perfectly just, and only punishes on the basis of personal choices made throughout each person's life here on earth. In other words, the one thing He does not control is our decisions. To say otherwise is to accuse the Lord of injustice, and I will not go there with such bold indifference to the perfection of His justice as it is revealed in His word to us.

Blessings to one and all.

MM
 
These words that you have spoken have fallen upon me like a majestic waterfall that one stands under for refreshing.

I have recently undergone the most difficult trial of my lifetime. I was completely blind-sided and did not see any of it coming.
It was fast and furious, like a tornado that touches down and destroys everything in its path and then there is the haunting quiet that
follows. Afterwards, begins the task of assessing the damage and then preparing for clean up. I am convinced that every precious believer in Christ at some point undergoes this kind of experience. There are no words to properly articulate the pain, confusion, grief and despair that follows a sudden and deep loss. The fact that sometimes we don't have a clue what is about to clobber us because we were not prepared or warned makes the blow even more difficult to accept.

One week from today will mark my 3rd month anniversary of having lost everything dear to my heart. ( and no, I did not lose a loved one to death, however it does feel like the same thing ). As I am writing this, I am fully aware that I am new here, and so I need to ensure that what I choose to share is something I am going to be able to live with because once I press the "post reply", I will never be able to erase or take back my words.

All the above to state. I have FELT and EXPERIENCED the supernatural INTERVENTION of God on so many levels these last three months, that it would take me weeks to list all the ways. It makes me wonder if the word intervention can be interchanged with the concept of mercy and grace. WE are told that His mercies are NEW every morning. When things are going well... I think we often take a great many promises for granted.
When catastrophe hits us, the reality of our weak and fragile nature is laid raw and exposed. However, in my experience, this is where God's intervention really shines the brightest.

I do believe without a doubt that God is EVERYTHING the bible states HE is. HE IS the great I AM. That sounds so distant and so unattainable yet time and time again, I have seen and experienced that GOD ( the one who foreknew absolutely everything ) came down to my world and in a tangible way, revealed His goodness, provision, and protection over me. That is something that my little brain simply cannot understand, but it is something that I am so very grateful for.

In my opinion, God's intervention is simply a loving FATHER/CREATOR, delighting in coming to the rescue of His beloved children.

Dear sister, after having lost my former wife in October of 2021 to COVID, I can say that I am at least somewhat acquainted with that "blind-side" whammy that life can throw at us. Our four boys and I have picked up the pieces as best we can.

Thanks for sharing.

My prayers are with you.

MM
 
Dear sister, after having lost my former wife in October of 2021 to COVID, I can say that I am at least somewhat acquainted with that "blind-side" whammy that life can throw at us. Our four boys and I have picked up the pieces as best we can.

Thanks for sharing.

My prayers are with you.

MM
This thread has really brought to light what occurs when we LISTEN to others in a genuine way... and that BEING right must always lower itself below being compassionate and merciful. I have absolutely been kissed with comfort by the responses I have seen thus far in these forums.
Please accept my deepest condolences for your deep loss.
 
Oh, and one other thing on this topic...the Lord's working things through on a pro-active basis from before the foundations of the world, that does not at all take away from His worthiness for our praises and worship for all that He does in our lives. You see, neither of these two understandings takes away from the glory of the Lord. Either way, He is the initiator and shaper of ALL our destinies, whether in the framework of His absolute control over all things, operating from the foundation of His foreknowledge, or from a reactionary, less control basis that leads to the need for intervention. I don't buy the latter, but at least we're not dealing with topical alternatives that steal from the Lord His worthiness of our worship and admiration.

MM
 
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Here is a reality that is one of so many revelations as to how awesome God is!

Ecclesiastes 3:11 He has made everything beautiful in its time. Also He has put eternity in their hearts, except that no one can find out the work that God does from beginning to end.

Amen

MM
 
These words that you have spoken have fallen upon me like a majestic waterfall that one stands under for refreshing.

I have recently undergone the most difficult trial of my lifetime. I was completely blind-sided and did not see any of it coming.
It was fast and furious, like a tornado that touches down and destroys everything in its path and then there is the haunting quiet that
follows. Afterwards, begins the task of assessing the damage and then preparing for clean up. I am convinced that every precious believer in Christ at some point undergoes this kind of experience. There are no words to properly articulate the pain, confusion, grief and despair that follows a sudden and deep loss. The fact that sometimes we don't have a clue what is about to clobber us because we were not prepared or warned makes the blow even more difficult to accept.

One week from today will mark my 3rd month anniversary of having lost everything dear to my heart. ( and no, I did not lose a loved one to death, however it does feel like the same thing ). As I am writing this, I am fully aware that I am new here, and so I need to ensure that what I choose to share is something I am going to be able to live with because once I press the "post reply", I will never be able to erase or take back my words.

All the above to state. I have FELT and EXPERIENCED the supernatural INTERVENTION of God on so many levels these last three months, that it would take me weeks to list all the ways. It makes me wonder if the word intervention can be interchanged with the concept of mercy and grace. WE are told that His mercies are NEW every morning. When things are going well... I think we often take a great many promises for granted.
When catastrophe hits us, the reality of our weak and fragile nature is laid raw and exposed. However, in my experience, this is where God's intervention really shines the brightest.

I do believe without a doubt that God is EVERYTHING the bible states HE is. HE IS the great I AM. That sounds so distant and so unattainable yet time and time again, I have seen and experienced that GOD ( the one who foreknew absolutely everything ) came down to my world and in a tangible way, revealed His goodness, provision, and protection over me. That is something that my little brain simply cannot understand, but it is something that I am so very grateful for.

In my opinion, God's intervention is simply a loving FATHER/CREATOR, delighting in coming to the rescue of His beloved children.

Thank you, Bob. I understand your response, because pointing at any one thing in specific does indeed run aground onto the beaches of "assumption" on our part because of the limited scope of our ability to see beyond the merely physical.

So, what, then, is the answer to it all?

Well, let's explore this some: Dare we point at some event that we feel the inkling to declare there was an intervening act of God involved, or an angel, et al, we have to ask ourselves, "I see X number of potential outcome paths for what MIGHT have been, and yet XXXXXX was the actual outcome, so God MUST have intervened since those other outcomes did not play out!" Hmm. Really? To say that they were at all possible outcomes under the infinite power and control of the Lord, is that a legitimate observation on our part?

I've heard many times from people, "Well, if only Adam had not sinned, we all would be living blissful lives in the garden..."

Really? Is the basis of our labeling any given outcome, or set of outcomes, in the face of our imagining the existence of potential alternatives, does that ever lend any authority to our declaring something as God's alleged "intervention"?

The implication, therefore, is that the label of "intervention" finds itself in the mire and muck of subjectivity, and thus calls into question the absolute control our Lord exercises. In other words, we must assume a subjectively measured amount of lack in God's control. Do we see that anywhere in the Bible? THAT is the thrust of what I seek, and have not found.

This also begs the question...how can I be for certain that any of the other outcomes might ever have even been possible in the economy of God's Sovereign control over everything?

After all, we are indeed told in the Bible of God's absolute control over all of creation down to the level of the atoms that comprise our bodies, this planet, this solar system of ours, and even that hydrogen atom in the center of that star in the most distant galaxy at the very edge of the universe.

You see, this goes to yet another of countless reasons for us to admire, worship and praise the Lord whose power is great and wondrous.

Now, if we look at the Bible where the Lord warned of potential if-then outcomes to His chosen people Israel, such as obedience versus disobedience to Torah, even though Israel promised they would obey it all, did not the Lord know in advance that they would disobey? Did He not already know of their stiff-necked character as a nation? Can we say, then, that, on the basis of that knowledge, the Lord had already set in motion, through His creative power from back before the world ever was, His own plans and stimuli in all the atoms, all the forces of nature, that He controls, and did so on the basis of what He already knew was the outcome?

Now, everyone, please understand that I'm not saying that it's wrong to assume either way in relation to this topic. The Lord never did command that we understand the nature of His Sovereignty over all of creation. We know only what He has inspired to be written, and what He reveals in individual lives.

(Also, I'm not suggesting that the Cannon is not closed, so let's avoid that rabbit hole.)

What we CAN say for sure if that He is perfectly just, and only punishes on the basis of personal choices made throughout each person's life here on earth. In other words, the one thing He does not control is our decisions. To say otherwise is to accuse the Lord of injustice, and I will not go there with such bold indifference to the perfection of His justice as it is revealed in His word to us.

Blessings to one and all.

MM

Hello In Awe of Him;

May God bless you for sharing your beautiful post. I understand, and can also walk away learning more about God's Intervention? Intervening Power?

God bless you, sister.

Hello Musicmaster; I say learning more about this topic because in your posts it gave me another thought; we must distinguish God's intervention / intervening and the ploys of the evil one's performance of "signs and wonders."

God bless you, brother.
 
Jesus encourages us to appeal to the Lord, and further, He provides guidance in doing so. If this is agreed upon, then I believe prayer must have an outcome or purpose that coincides with and compliments worship. Now, you may not see it this way, but I believe it is reasonable to see a path opening through prayer to appeal to the Lord, through Christ’s teachings, for intervention on several levels.
An obvious example for me of Jesus’s encouragement and assurance of the power of prayer and appealing to the Lord directly is found here:

The Lord’s Prayer​

9 “Pray, then, in this way:

‘Our Father, who is in heaven,
[a]Hallowed be Your name.
10 [b]Your kingdom come.
Your will be done,
[c]On earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day [d]our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13 And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from [e]evil.[f]’
Read full chapter

Footnotes​

  1. Matthew 6:9 I.e., treated as sacred or holy
  2. Matthew 6:10 Or May Your...come
  3. Matthew 6:10 Lit as in heaven, also on earth
  4. Matthew 6:11 Or our bread for tomorrow
  5. Matthew 6:13 Or the evil one
  6. Matthew 6:13 Late mss add For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen
    Matthew 6:9-13 (NASB)

Other examples of scripture exhorting us to petition the Lord are:

Philippians 4:6 - Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God.

Mark 11:24 - Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.

Romans 8:26 - Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words.

Matthew 6:6 - But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

These and other examples convince me personally of the power, strength and possibility of prayer.

One thing to note is that, I also subscribe to the notion that, although God hears all prayers, not all are answered the way we would wish.

God bless all who are sharing and contributing to this discussion.
 
Jesus encourages us to appeal to the Lord, and further, He provides guidance in doing so. If this is agreed upon, then I believe prayer must have an outcome or purpose that coincides with and complicates worship. Now, you may not see it this way, but I believe it is reasonable to see a path opening through prayer to appeal to the Lord, through Christ’s teachings, for intervention on several levels.
An obvious example for me of Jesus’s encouragement and assurance of the power of prayer and appealing to the Lord directly is found here:

The Lord’s Prayer​

9 “Pray, then, in this way:

‘Our Father, who is in heaven,
[a]Hallowed be Your name.
10 [b]Your kingdom come.
Your will be done,
[c]On earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day [d]our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13 And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from [e]evil.[f]’
Read full chapter

Footnotes​

  1. Matthew 6:9 I.e., treated as sacred or holy
  2. Matthew 6:10 Or May Your...come
  3. Matthew 6:10 Lit as in heaven, also on earth
  4. Matthew 6:11 Or our bread for tomorrow
  5. Matthew 6:13 Or the evil one
  6. Matthew 6:13 Late mss add For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen
    Matthew 6:9-13 (NASB)

Other examples of scripture exhorting us to petition the Lord are:

Philippians 4:6 - Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God.

Mark 11:24 - Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.

Romans 8:26 - Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words.

Matthew 6:6 - But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

These and other examples convince me personally of the power, strength and possibility of prayer.

One thing to note is that, I also subscribe to the notion that, although God hears all prayers, not all are answered they way we would wish.

God bless all who are sharing and contributing to this discussion.

Hello blueskies;

Thank you for your post in this topic. One thing you emphasize where we all should give more attention. That's prayer. We can get prayed up or prayer before resting but our prayers should also be prepared for God to reveal any intervention or intervening for His ordained purpose.

I agree with you. There will also be those moments when God's receiving of our prayers are not always answered the way we would wish. Perhaps others can expound on that.

God bless you, brother, and thank you for your prayers.

Bob
 
Hello In Awe of Him;

May God bless you for sharing your beautiful post. I understand, and can also walk away learning more about God's Intervention? Intervening Power?

God bless you, sister.

Hello Musicmaster; I say learning more about this topic because in your posts it gave me another thought; we must distinguish God's intervention / intervening and the ploys of the evil one's performance of "signs and wonders."

God bless you, brother.

Hmm. That is another dynamic worth consideration. Thanks, Bob.

MM
 
Jesus encourages us to appeal to the Lord, and further, He provides guidance in doing so. If this is agreed upon, then I believe prayer must have an outcome or purpose that coincides with and compliments worship. Now, you may not see it this way, but I believe it is reasonable to see a path opening through prayer to appeal to the Lord, through Christ’s teachings, for intervention on several levels.
An obvious example for me of Jesus’s encouragement and assurance of the power of prayer and appealing to the Lord directly is found here:

The Lord’s Prayer​

9 “Pray, then, in this way:

‘Our Father, who is in heaven,
[a]Hallowed be Your name.
10 [b]Your kingdom come.
Your will be done,
[c]On earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day [d]our daily bread.
12 And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13 And do not lead us into temptation, but deliver us from [e]evil.[f]’
Read full chapter

Footnotes​

  1. Matthew 6:9 I.e., treated as sacred or holy
  2. Matthew 6:10 Or May Your...come
  3. Matthew 6:10 Lit as in heaven, also on earth
  4. Matthew 6:11 Or our bread for tomorrow
  5. Matthew 6:13 Or the evil one
  6. Matthew 6:13 Late mss add For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen
    Matthew 6:9-13 (NASB)

Other examples of scripture exhorting us to petition the Lord are:

Philippians 4:6 - Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God.

Mark 11:24 - Therefore I tell you, whatever you ask in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be yours.

Romans 8:26 - Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words.

Matthew 6:6 - But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

These and other examples convince me personally of the power, strength and possibility of prayer.

One thing to note is that, I also subscribe to the notion that, although God hears all prayers, not all are answered they way we would wish.

God bless all who are sharing and contributing to this discussion.

Those are some good thoughts, BS. Thanks for sharing.

This makes me think more about all this. Earlier in the thread, LTLG asked the question about prayer.

If we couple together the absolute, unfathomable, omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent reality of God, over against the idea of His NOT being a reactionistic Intervener, then I see the continuity. Therefore, when it comes to prayer, what's really happening? That's the question in my mind at this point.

Might we say that prayer is the basis of relationship, which doesn't change the defining characteristics of God's Sovereignty, but that is the (dare I use this word) mechanism by which we are affected, changed, grown, blessed, edified, instructed, corrected, rebuked and many other benefits by which any relationship with the Most High is defined and bound?

At the same time, I don't see that the merits of prayer, in the sense of beseeching the Lord for something, in any way introduces anything into what Lord had already foreseen and had already implemented before time the preparatory outcome(s) on the basis of His being the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end.

You see, this only elevates the immeasurable greatness of His perfect Power, magnifying His Sovereignty over all in our thoughts and our hearts.

Then we have intercessionary prayer, and Holy Spirit bringing our petitions before the Lord, who has our prayers in that vessel before His Throne. In a manner of speaking, then, perhaps that Romans 8:26 speaks of groanings beyond words, which makes the added prayer in that vessel even more powerful for when He draws them out.

See how it is when we try to understand things in the context of other things, especially when it tends to go against our pet doctrines and the emotional appeals in certain beliefs? We like the idea the Lord did something special, or different for us, while all others are stuck in the "flow"...so to speak.

I'm actually comforted that the Lord had already set in motion all that would ever have come forth from my prayers and my actions from before the world was. In one vein, His pro-active provisions is a comforting thing to my thinking because it meshes with the enormity of the magnitude of His powerful control over everything, coupled with His foreknowledge. In the other vein, it tends to paint a portrait of the Lord laying things out in a general sense, waiting to complete it all on the basis of His reactions to the stimuli of events as they come. Somehow that latter scenario doesn't seem plausible.

How about you? What do you see?

MM
 
How about you? What do you see?
I read your post over and over again. The depth in which you speak and think is something that I myself am not able to even closely match.
Yet when you speak these words. the absolute, unfathomable, omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent reality of God
How is any human being even able to understand the MAGNITUDE and MARVEL of it all? How does one even begin to try and understand
the perfect attributes of the LIVING GOD? My mind is not able to delve into the "trying" to understand the mysteries of the character of God.

With the above said, I absolutely accept and believe that God is all these marvelous and mind-blowing things. It is with this understanding that I
am able to boldly and with full confidence "enter into" communication with God, via prayer/conversation/Worship.
Anytime I try to articulate my heart and my faith, it seems that my words fail miserably at attempting to explain anything to others.

When I pray, it is more along the lines of a conversation, a "checking in" if you like. I'm not sure if I'm right or wrong in how I approach this but I don't often petition God for things, and that is because I am so blown away by the Majesty of God that it seems for me simply something that does not cross my mind to do. I truly believe that God's very nature is to intervene on behalf of His children. It is His very nature to give His children the BEST of things. So, my prayers always seem to simply be... Father, help me to accept and above all, give me the grace to be content in all things.

Worship is my default setting. It is how I begin my day. Thanksgiving and gratitude seems to feed my spirituality like nothing else I have tried to
learn or achieve.

My spiritual position is always at the FEET of Christ. For me, everything flows from Christ's shed blood on the cross. It is this solitary truth that allows me to live in peace and with great joy.

Please forgive my inability to communicate my thoughts in such a way that would match your contributions.
 
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I read your post over and over again. The depth in which you speak and think is something that I myself am not able to even closely match.
Yet when you speak these words. the absolute, unfathomable, omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent reality of God
How is any human being even able to understand the MAGNITUDE and MARVEL of it all? How does one even begin to try and understand
the perfect attributes of the LIVING GOD? My mind is not able to delve into the "trying" to understand the mysteries of the character of God.

With the above said, I absolutely accept and believe that God is all these marvelous and mind-blowing things. It is with this understanding that I
am able to boldly and with full confidence "enter into" communication with God, via prayer/conversation/Worship.
Anytime I try to articulate my heart and my faith, it seems that my words fail miserably at attempting to explain anything to others.

When I pray, it is more along the lines of a conversation, a "checking in" if you like. I'm not sure if I'm right or wrong in how I approach this but I don't often petition God for things, and that is because I am so blown away by the Majesty of God that it seems for me simply something that does not cross my mind to do. I truly believe that God's very nature is to intervene on behalf of His children. It is His very nature to give His children the BEST of things. So, my prayers always seem to simply be... Father, help me to accept and above all, give me the grace to be content in all things.

Worship is my default setting. It is how I begin my day. Thanksgiving and gratitude seems to feed my spirituality like nothing else I have tried to
learn or achieve.

My spiritual position is always at the FEET of Christ. For me, everything flows from Christ's shed blood on the cross. It is this solitary truth that allows me to live in peace and with great joy.

Please forgive my inability to communicate my thoughts in such a way that would match your contributions.

I don't see any problem in your ability to communicate. You do very well, and I appreciate your words very much.

As to gaining deeper and more profound understanding of the ways and nature of the Most High, that's not something we can do on our own. It can only come from He who sits upon the Throne of the universe and Heaven.

1 John 2:27 But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.

So, my encouragement to you is to never stop at the threshold of your own inability to delve deeper into the things of the Lord. He alone can give them to you, and only for the asking. What a pleasure it is to Him for His people to seek Him, seek understanding of Him that He is willing to give for the asking, and the communion with His people who love Him by way of their obedience to the Law He writes into our hearts.

Don't just take it from me, but rather test the Lord for His Goodness to give those who ask. He doesn't pile it all on in one sitting, so to speak. He gives just enough each day to take it in, let it mesh with His written word to enliven it with greater light in understanding, and top open your eyes even more than ever before to the grandeur of His Majesty. Simply ask.

Isaiah 55:8-9
8 "For My thoughts [are] not your thoughts, Nor [are] your ways My ways," says the LORD.
9 "For [as] the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways, And My thoughts than your thoughts.

Nowhere in that context did the Lord even command against asking for what is above what we have presently, which are His Thoughts and His Ways. Ask. He will make you a believer by His own provision, simply by asking, a little measure here, and little there, giving whatsoever He knows we can handle because of His perfect and unsurpassed knowledge.

I've learned firsthand that He gives a measure of His Thoughts and His Ways to those who dare to ask, and I'm finding out that very few professing believers ever do ask because of some false sense of humility that is not at all pleasing in His sight. He doesn't want a people who willingly grovel about in the muck and mires of ignorance.

Dare step out in faith into that journey, and He will reward beyond anything you could possibly glean through your own understanding.

Intervention? Well, the Lord did indeed intervene, but not in the ways we tend to think in our blindness to the eternals.

His "intervention" was way back before time ever was. Given that Christ was "slain from the foundations of the world," that right there shows to us that the the intentional placement of the Tree of Knowledge for Good and Evil, the evil serpent, the subsequent fall of man, everything was already foreseen and set in motion from the foundations of the world.

Therein is the reason for my questioning the typical understanding and placement of His "intervention." Most people place that in the present points of the overall timeline. I see it as having already been established from the foundations of the world.

Psalm 139:16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all [my members] were written, [which] in continuance were fashioned, when [as yet there was] none of them.

Job 14:5 Seeing his days [are] determined, the number of his months [are] with thee, thou hast appointed his bounds that he cannot pass;

Psalm 90:12 So teach [us] to number our days, that we may apply [our] hearts unto wisdom.

Psalm 39:4 LORD, make me to know mine end, and the measure of my days, what it [is; that] I may know how frail I [am].

I could go on and on, but I think you get the picture.

MM
 
I don't see any problem in your ability to communicate. You do very well, and I appreciate your words very much. As to gaining deeper and more profound understanding of the ways and nature of the Most High, that's not something we can do on our own. It can only come from He who sits upon the Throne of the universe and Heaven.
Intervention? Well, the Lord did indeed intervene, but not in the ways we tend to think in our blindness to the eternals.
His "intervention" was way back before time ever was. Given that Christ was "slain from the foundations of the world," that right there shows to us that the the intentional placement of the Tree of Knowledge for Good and Evil, the evil serpent, the subsequent fall of man, everything was already foreseen and set in motion from the foundations of the world.

Hello Musicmaster;

I also appreciate your encouragement and agree that we cannot achieve things without the Most High. I also am learning not to be conscious of always getting it right. In Systematic or Biblical theology it's ok to get it wrong and allow God to raise another to help learn us.

Well said! You wrote, Intervention? Well, the Lord did indeed intervene, but not in the ways we tend to think in our blindness to the eternals.

Good stuff,
brother.
 
What is the point of prayer?
power of prayer is able to do exceedingly abundantly above all that we ask or think according to the power in us . i am by far charismatic BUTTTT "intervening power." happens every day half the time we don't realize it. i remember 911 where a man life was spared that due due to a flat if memory serves correct , this is addressed to the o.p who has me on ignore life goes on.. there is not a person alive today that at some time his "intervening power.". kept us away form harm we just don't know it

to say that the Lord must intervene

he does do i understand every thing as per why some are healed some are not . somebody perishes while . a person worthy to die lives.. the age old question why does bad things happen to good people.. we can not phantom. but God does intervene its called intercessory prayer standing in the gap

i couldn't find the version i wanted where it talked of a dessert storm solider his group was fixing cross over do battel.. a sand storm come up blinded them when it was over.. they discovered a mine feild that the storm uncovered.. thus saving lives !!! a older lady praying for the solider she attended the Church the soilder went to/
 
Setting our sights upon a higher plane is the pivotal point of this discussion. For example, there are people in other forum websites telling me that "Intervention is a part of God's very nature based upon His grace and mercy." Although that may satisfy the curiosities of a mere religious tourist, we should seek to delve deeper into the things of Christ arising from an appetite for greater substance and depth. Everything Christ addressed through words were defiance against the conventionality of mere religious exercise and thought. The level of thought, teaching authority and power Christ showed to them all was radical, thus giving to the people around Him the sense of authority beyond what they were used to, in the words Christ spoke.

In relation to the topic of intervention, I have asked many people repeatedly for specific examples, and to date, none have been forthcoming other than for generalities. I understand the lack of desire for specific cases in point because it can be asked of each and every scenario that may be put forth, "How do you know that there were any other alternative pathways possible in this creation that is completely under the control of the Most High God?"

In other words, none of us can know for sure that it had not all been acted upon by the Lord from before the creation of this world. Adam's fall is one such example. People love musing about what the world might have been like had Adam chosen to not fall with Eve, and thus taking all the rest of mankind down with him along the slide into sin. The reality is that, frankly, there never was any alternative possible in this or any other timeline. Given that Christ was slain from the foundation of the world, no sinless path was ever possible. The Lord knew the fall was going to happen because He intentionally set within that garden the very elements He knew would bring about the very thing that we all can look back upon as the true and only course.

The same could be said for any example at which anyone may point. We cannot know the depths of the Lord's preparation for the outcome of each and every event, action and reaction. That does not at all take away from His grace, His mercy, and His benevolent provisions throughout. When we give thanks for it all, whether it's retroactively imposed upon what He had already set in motion from before the foundations of the world, or for what He is doing right now, we know that it all brings glory to the Lord our God regardless. The relationship we have with Him through our prayers is solid, and He values that greatly, irrespective of intervention or not.

Does that make sense?

MM
 
Musicmaster Oh my... you are such a DEEP THINKER ( and I do not mean this in a negative way ).

I suppose I am one of those who believe that "Intervention is a part of God's very nature based upon His grace and mercy."
It is how I live my life. I depend on the complete assurance that God will care for all my needs as well as the needs of all His children.
This does not "get me off the hook" so to speak with regards to praying and seeking a deeper relationship with God, however, I am
fully content with my total dependence upon HIM.

As discussed in private, you are aware of some more personal details of my story/life. I could share many examples of absolute
INTERVENTION in a very real way these last months in particular.

I believe I was divinely "plucked/extracted" from a situation that ( had I remained in ) would have caused absolute devastation for me.
I believe that God intervened in housing for me in the form of allowing me to return to my prior residence on the lake. My apartment that
I left for 8 months was FREE for me to return to. There is no way that should have happened but it did.
I believe that God intervened with my heart to help me accept a heart-breaking situation that would NORMALLY have caused me deep despair.
I believe that INTERVENTION is as FLUID and ALIVE as God Himself.. and I also believe that a majority of the time we don't even see or feel it.

The topic of Godly protection from the enemy is something that happens moment to moment. The warfare that occurs over God's children is so fierce and violent, yet we as Christians are able to connect with God in such a way that we are given PERFECT PEACE.

I suppose I could spend all day digging deeper and seeking MORE. If I look at my situation today, I would tell you that my spiritual health is the BEST it's ever been because of the recent sufferings I have had to undergo. My life ebbs and flows like the tide. Inclusive in this are the SEASONS that we all go through. God's intervention is ALWAYS and CONSTANTLY at work.

I stated to you earlier that I don't ask God for many things. It's because I have learned to live contently with what I have and where I'm at. My prayers are mostly for others. As far as Intersession goes, I am not gifted with "standing in the gap" for things. I believe this is a gift and I don't think ALL have it.

What I do practice on a constant basis is WORSHIP. It's my life. I am constantly in AWE of GOD. I'm not just saying that because it sounds good. I am literally like a kid in a candy store. I am fully AWARE that God is MAGNIFICENT. This is something that seems to have been gifted to me after my healing in the summer of 2021. I call it a child-like wonder. I'm not sure what to call it... but I am filled with JOY to overflowing... and so my life is simply a SONG of LOVE to the GOOD SHEPHERD who rescued me from the fowler's snare. There is NO striving when one is in a position of gratitude and thanksgiving.

And again... the words have failed me.

I absolutely understand the invitation to dig deeper. I already shared with you that you have challenged me to do just that... however there is a peace that comes with that... It's like an invitation to go to a fancy dinner. WE dress up... and we anticipate something good. I believe knowledge is for the GOOD of us. However... when it turns into a TASK or CHORE... then it loses it's beauty and becomes simply an obligation.

I have truly enjoyed our conversations... and your gift of music is WOW just WOW. I feel your deep urgency to share and challenge others, but I also feel that perhaps what YOU are called to study and do is not something that everyone else can handle to the same degree.

When I say I accept your challenge to dig deeper... for me that simply means taking quiet time to BE STILL and KNOW that HE is GOD. That is my answer to EVERYTHING. I don't know what a normal Christian life SHOULD look like. I only know that my life was filled with deep sorrow and despair for DECADES upon DECADES and now... since my healing of depression ( summer of 2021 ) I am FILLED to overflowing with JOY. I think there is something to be said about a soul who DELIGHTS in simplicity. That little black sheep that you see in my avatar. That is me... He rescued me... He loves me... He sings over me... He left the flock to come find me. He snatched me from the enemy and said SHE IS MINE. I don't know what more I can offer than my total surrender and praise. I believe this is what He desires from me.

You are so gifted MM. You have a deep deep desire to pull closer to God and that is indeed most pleasing to HIM.
 
In relation to the topic of intervention, I have asked many people repeatedly for specific examples, and to date, none have been forthcoming other than for generalities.

If God is a 'Master clockmaker' as some (Deists) say, then it's easy to explain why there is evil: Evil is the gears mindlessly grinding away. In this scenario, God is innocent of the charge that he created evil but is also expected to 'tinker' (intervene), so to speak, per the petitions of his creations.

However, if God is actively part of every part and parcel of all events in his creation at all times, as it seemed you suggested earlier in this thread, then God is indeed the architect of evil since it exists at his explicit command. Of course, one could always claim that what we consider evil is not truly evil and we are mistaken, but tell that to those who suffer.

So we're in a bit of a bind.
 
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