Does God Like Surprises

Discussion in 'Thoughts for Today' started by mattjanes, Jul 24, 2014.

  1. I don't believe in universal salvation only because I do believe God gives us true free will to hate Him. But please, you must try understand that with your belief....you believe God did the 'forcing' at birth.
     
  2. Amen. Now if we could further grasp / acknowledge that the King did so / still had hope = He could be surprised by Judas repenting.
     
  3. I think your explanation has several flaws. Firstly, from the perspective of an atheist, who doesn't believe there IS a kingdom of God, they are making neither of the two choices you insist everyone makes. You make it sound like atheists know full well that there is a God and a Heaven and they are choosing to disregard them. That is false. They aren't disregarding them or disrespecting them. They simply believe they are not there. So in no sense is an atheist choosing hell.

    Secondly, no one would consciously choose hell. Absolutely no one.
     
  4. Rev 20:13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done.

    This is what awaits those not with The King.

    They are still under works.
     
  5. Yes but to be fair, there are those who are not Christians, do not believe the Bible, and have no belief in heaven or hell. I'm not saying they are right. I'm just saying that's what they believe, and it's not out of rebellion to God. They aren't angry with God, they just don't think He's there. So in what sense are people like that "choosing hell"?
     
  6. In my humble opinion, I don't believe God could ever do evil. Why? Because what is evil? Sin is evil. What is sin? Anything that goes against God is sin. God can't go against himself, and therefore God can't sin or do evil. Anything that He does is considered holy.

    If God had let Abraham go through with killing his son, it would of still been a holy act, and I believe Abraham would of still praised God for it. Everyone on earth dies. Who are we to say how long a person should live? Why is it that if a person dies at the age of 2 it's bad, but at the age of 90 we are okay with it?

    If I make a pot out of clay, don't I have the right to destroy it whenever I please? I could understand if another person makes a pot out of clay, and I destroy it, that would be wrong, because it wasn't my pot to destroy. But, if it's my pot and my creation, it wouldn't make sense for other people to tell me what I can and can't do with that pot.

    Shall what is formed say to the one who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’” Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for special purposes and some for common use? What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory.
     
    Abdicate likes this.
  7. But we are not talking about merely ''killing'' someone. We are talking about God knowingly creating a being just beneath Him (full emotions and high intellect) to be tormented forever. No comparison between the two!

    As for Rom 9.....its just saying that God is God. He can do whatever He wants. Who are we to question Him. But does that mean He does then proceed and do evil? Of course not. As you noted in the first part of your post, God is good. He cannot sin / do evil. So why then assume He does?

    Fact is that every sane person on this planet will ''judge'' God as evil if He ever made someone from a ''lump of dishonor'' ''unto dishonor''.

    We know from the rest of scripture exactly what God does do with His power. There is no need for 'dreamy' assumptions. God says ''whomsoever will'' may be saved. God does not abuse His power. God is not evil. Creating someone for hell is evil. Letting Abraham kill his son...if quick...is 1/10 ''evil'' if slow...is 8/10 ....but if when creating Abraham's son in his mothers womb...He knew the boys fate was eternity in torment = 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000/1 evil ;).

    You started that thread on half truths. You must try see quoting Rom 9 in isolation as a half truth. I can kill an ant, but do I?
     
  8. You are sadly mistaken and do not know the scriptures concerning this.
    God has shown to all men that he he exists. Any man who says God does not exist, "God calls him a liar"
    When God calls you a liar, you are in big deep trouble!!!!

    1Jn 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

    Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
    Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
     
  9. The Lord "forces" nobody to do anything or else man would not have free will. God has provided a way to escape what man has brought upon himself. Try not to put yourself into the same group of people who call what is good evil, or evil good. This is not a good place to be.

    Isa 5:20 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter
     
  10. I'd sure like to see a line-up of Scriptures that teach "free will." I'm sure someone has that list, and it's probably been published here, but is it really something like the Scriptures people use to say that after the rapture, we're all going to heaven? In other words, are the beliefs that these Scriptures say we have "free will" based upon tradition, hopes, and what we've been taught all our lives?
     
  11. If you seriously believe this, I would ask you in all seriousness if the version of Christianity you have chosen is doing you any favors.

    I'm not sure if this "anoining" you claim to have allows you to read the private thoughts and minds of people who say they are atheists, but think about what you are saying for a moment, or rather, what you are claiming scripture says. You're essentially telling every atheist that ever lived that they are liars and they actually DO believe in God. I find that both shocking and unbelievable.

    When someone tells me something, especially something that they claim to believe, I have very little reason to tell them they are lying. And yet this is what you are doing en masse with billions of people you have never met. Give your head a shake. How can you be a reasonable human being believing nonsense like this?

    You DO NOT know the thoughts and beliefs of others better than they do themselves. That's preposterous, arrogant and shockingly irresponsible on a grand scale.
     
  12. If that is the case, then you simply do not believe the Bible in what it says. Why?
     
  13. I'm sorry, but you don't know better than other people what they believe, and if you're using the Bible to say that, then you're being intellectually dishonest as well.

    You don't know better than others what they believe. Sorry. That's impossible.
     
  14. If you killed an ant I would not consider you evil for doing so. But ,if you killed a thousand ants... No, I still wouldn't care. :) An ant is not on the same level as a human, and we are not on the same level as God.

    I'm driving, so forgive me if I missed your point. I agree with you that God is not evil, lol.

    I think where we may be on opposing sides is if God knows when he is creating someone if they will go to hell or not. I believe God knows before he creates a person if they are going to hell or not. He's all knowing. And I think you are saying if God knows when he creates them that they will go to hell, then that's evil. My question is if He doesn't know that they are going to hell when he creates them, then can we call God all knowing?

    Job 31:4
     
  15. Would it be evil to execute someone for murdering 100's people if found guilty? You seem to be mixing up evil from justice.
    The lake of fire was not made for man, but for the devil and his angels, yet some men will find their way there because of justice being executed upon them.
    As for God creating people for hell is not right thinking. God only created two people, Adam and Eve. We were not created, we were born here. We are Adam, and Eve's descendants.
     
  16. God doesn't hand make each of us in the womb?
     
  17. ? You are not making sense bud. I think we have said all we have to say on this, well at least I have. One-day in heaven you will see that I am right ;).
     
    PeaceLikeaRiver likes this.
  18. Yes. My point with the ant proves it. If He wants to He can, but that does not mean He does.

    There is plenty scripture that shows He changed His mind. That says His will is the 'whomsoever' will carry their cross.... not me, you and Bob. I am not saying that I am right and you are wrong. Just saying that is where scripture points.

    We both agree that God is good. We both agree that God loves all. We just disagree on how God's brain works. We are ants, we can be forgiven for this disagreement.

    *With that verse in Job we need to remember a verse like Psalm 37:23.
     
  19. Yes yes we agree on a lot. :) Here is a question, when God says, "Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?" do you think God really wants to know where Job was?
     
  20. YES!...No ;). Rhetorical question to make a big point.
     

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