Does God Like Surprises

gonefishing said:
It's religion versus relationship, your posts make it clear which is more important to you. And most Catholics I know don't believe what you think they should, I'll tell them they're doing it wrong according to you.
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No need to be snarky, all I'm doing is asking that people acknowledge that there is more than one understanding on different practices within Christianity. My dictionary says Christianity is a religion, by the way, you want to tell Merriam-Webster they got it wrong?
 
CCW95A said:
I dont care what Catholics or Methodist, Lutheran or any other man made denomination thinks or what they believe. They can not save anyone, and never will. I believe in Jesus Christ as the only name given unto man for salvation. All others are not irrelevant and mean nothing to God. He only looks at the intent and purposes of the heart, and all other works or beliefs do not provide what is necessary for one to become a son of God. Since you do not believe in the anointing of God and are offended that I said it was only the anointing that can teach one the Word of God, you know nothing of this anointing except God only gives it only to certain people that are special in his eyes. You are correct, every single truly born again Christian is anointed by the Spirit of God, and that anointing which God only gives to special people is his Church.
You do not have this "anointing" you have come and are living proof the Word of God is right in it saying, that there are those who only have a form of Godliness. They have denied the power which every Christian has, and they are always asking questions, ever learning but they are incapable to come to the knowledge of truth. These people will become known to all men, and all their folly that they profess. 2 Timothy 3: 1 - 9
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All I am asking you do is respect that there is another side to Christianity that believes this process in an entirely different way than you do, and guess what? They're still Christians.
 
PeaceLikeaRiver said:
No need to be snarky, all I'm doing is asking that people acknowledge that there is more than one understanding on different practices within Christianity. My dictionary says Christianity is a religion, by the way, you want to tell Merriam-Webster they got it wrong?
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As discussed in earlier threads, I'm not bound by a dictionary. The whole point is that if someone focuses more on rituals, traditions, and rules they will miss the good news. Remember how Jesus spoke to the Pharisees and religious leaders. You run to what you've been taught rather than what Jesus said in almost every post you make.
 
JustPassingThru said:
Could you explain that, who and when?

And also, in your personal opinion, does this sound like religion or a relationship?

And this isn't recent, goes back thousands of years.

Jesus answered and said to him, If a man loves Me, he will keep My Word. And My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. John 14:23

Or,

Therefore come out from among them and be separated, says the Lord, and do not touch the unclean thing. And I will receive you and I will be a Father to you, and you shall be My sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty. 2 Co 6:17, 18
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This is fad religion you're talking about, in my opinion. They never called it a "relationship" for thousands of years people understood it as a religion that you either practiced or you didn't. The "personal relationship with God" this is offensive to me personally because it is very greedy-sounding. It's all ME, ME, ME - MY relationship, not yours, everyone else doesn't matter, just ME. Whereas I was always taught that God is there for everyone.
 
gonefishing said:
As discussed in earlier threads, I'm not bound by a dictionary. The whole point is that if someone focuses more on rituals, traditions, and rules they will miss the good news. Remember how Jesus spoke to the Pharisees and religious leaders. You run to what you've been taught rather than what Jesus said in almost every post you make.
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The real world as we know it uses a dictionary for purposes of making sure there are things we all agree about. You have no choice but be bound to it, otherwise you're operating outside of reality.

The whole point ISN'T about rituals, traditions and rules, we haven't been talking about that at all. We've been talking about two understandings of the idea of being born again, how one side ties it in with baptism and the other does not. Everything I've said can be backed up with scripture and you know this. But I don't like quoting scripture at people because, as I've said, it becomes a contest, because you can use scripture to back up anything you like, and because in the Christianity that I know, scripture is only one part of the authority I follow.

And you can feel free to disagree with anything about this - just please stop trying to deny that it's not valid, because for billions of Christians, it is.
 
PeaceLikeaRiver said:
The real world as we know it uses a dictionary for purposes of making sure there are things we all agree about. You have no choice but be bound to it, otherwise you're operating outside of reality.

The whole point ISN'T about rituals, traditions and rules, we haven't been talking about that at all. We've been talking about two understandings of the idea of being born again, how one side ties it in with baptism and the other does not. Everything I've said can be backed up with scripture and you know this. But I don't like quoting scripture at people because, as I've said, it becomes a contest, because you can use scripture to back up anything you like, and because in the Christianity that I know, scripture is only one part of the authority I follow.

And you can feel free to disagree with anything about this - just please stop trying to deny that it's not valid, because for billions of Christians, it is.
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This started with your insistence on infant baptism, a ritual/ceremony/tradition however you want to define it. Once again you contradict yourself from one thread to the next. I'm ok to agree to disagree, practice what you preach as well. Stop shoveling Catholic dogma in every thread and then complain when it is countered.
 
gonefishing said:
This started with your insistence on infant baptism, a ritual/ceremony/tradition however you want to define it. Once again you contradict yourself from one thread to the next. I'm ok to agree to disagree, practice what you preach as well. Stop shoveling Catholic dogma in every thread and then complain when it is countered.
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I am doing no such thing. I'm not even Catholic anymore. I'm just tired of reading CCW talk about being anointed and having the one true special understanding bestowed on him by God for magically choosing to believe the correct interpretation of Christianity while the rest of us unsaved heathens can burn in hell. I'm asking him to respect that there are both sides.
 
Wow... This one went off the rails a bit....

So... I will throw my opinion into the hat.....

I don't think God can be "Surprised" in the same sense we can....
I believe God can be VERY disappointed..... but not Surprised... That would imply an outcome that God did not foreknow could happen.

For example....
With our 3 year old kids..... Are you REALLY surprised when they don't brush their teeth? NO.....
Are you disappointed when they don't brush their teeth? Yes.

Another example.....
So.... Say God is giving you all sorts of little "Signs" that you shouldn't worry about doing this BIG thing this ONE particular way.....
But.. You still insist on doing it every single other way EXCEPT the way God is directing you..... and then whining, complaining, murmuring, and accusing God because it doesn't work out....
Then complaining against God for NOT making what he WASN'T doing work out......

Is God SURPRISED? Nope. He knows me pretty well after all....
Is God Disappointed? Yep. I should know better by now... that when I KNOW which way I should go - trying every possible other way won't get me there.... and it's NOT God's fault that it doesn't.....

Now... Let's go back to the Bible to the Exodus - when the 12 witnesses returned from the Land.....
and they disheartened the people and they wouldn't go up IMMEDIATELY, on schedule.....

What happens if God had pre-arranged hail, lightning, fire from heaven, Meteors, and the like to rain down on ONE specific place on ONE specific day....... How far in advance would God shoot off a Meteor? Could be THOUSANDS of years earlier......

How about a MASSIVE storm 70 miles away to divert an entire river at ONE specific time......

And at the LAST moment - YOU start dithering around..... WASTING precious time..... Tracking hither and yon...

You may end up at the WRONG place on the appointed day....
You may end up on the RECEIVING end of some Cosmic Show of Power by mistake.....
You may end up in the middle of the river when the STORM ends and the water returns.......
so NOW, God has to drive you out of the way.....

Is God disappointed? Furious? YES..... Why? Because He set up this gigantic event just as a blessing for YOU... and now, you are dithering around and can't make up your mind.... and now, God has to work EXTRA hard to keep you from stumbling straight into the destruction that he prepared for someone else.....

Did he KNOW it was going to happen? Of course.... Was he Surprised by the outcome? No.... Is he STILL furious? Yes.
 
LOL... We can fit a HUGE amount of disagreement into "Yes, it's Christianity".....
So... You want to practice infant baptism... Sure - there's no harm in it....
You don't want to practice infant baptism... Fine... there's no harm in NOT doing it.....

If you practice it to God - and it helps your faith.... Great...
If you do NOT practice it to God - and it helps your faith.... Great too....

You want to celebrate Christmas to God - Great....
You think it's a Pagan holiday and don't celebrate it to God - Great too.....

You want to celebrate Yom Kippur to God.... Great....
You do not celebrate Jewish holidays because we are not under the law - to God... Great too.....

None of these things makes you Christian...
None of these things makes you NOT Christian.....

Rejoice with your brother in OUR liberty!
 
PeaceLikeaRiver said:
This is fad religion you're talking about, in my opinion. They never called it a "relationship" for thousands of years people understood it as a religion that you either practiced or you didn't. The "personal relationship with God" this is offensive to me personally because it is very greedy-sounding. It's all ME, ME, ME - MY relationship, not yours, everyone else doesn't matter, just ME. Whereas I was always taught that God is there for everyone.
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The only problem with your opinion is the they part of it, it isn't they who called it a personal relationship with God, ...it's God Himself, in those two verses, that is telling us what He wants, ...a personal relationship with us, so you have a problem with God and not me, ...I didn't write the Bible.

And, what do you do with the Church being the Bride of Christ, ...there isn't a more intimate relationship on earth than between a husband and wife, the two become one flesh, ...I suggest you ponder on that for awhile as to how it relates (relationship wise) to the Bridegroom and His Bride.
 
PeaceLikeaRiver said:
This is fad religion you're talking about, in my opinion. They never called it a "relationship" for thousands of years people understood it as a religion that you either practiced or you didn't. The "personal relationship with God" this is offensive to me personally because it is very greedy-sounding. It's all ME, ME, ME - MY relationship, not yours, everyone else doesn't matter, just ME. Whereas I was always taught that God is there for everyone.
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Small problem is that Christianity is not something you do or say, or what religion you belong to, it is who you know. Only those who know God intimately have eternal life.

Joh 17:3 And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.
 
JustPassingThru said:
The only problem with your opinion is the they part of it, it isn't they who called it a personal relationship with God, ...it's God Himself, in those two verses, that is telling us what He wants, ...a personal relationship with us, so you have a problem with God and not me, ...I didn't write the Bible.

And, what do you do with the Church being the Bride of Christ, ...there isn't a more intimate relationship on earth than between a husband and wife, the two become one flesh, ...I suggest you ponder on that for awhile as to how it relates (relationship wise) to the Bridegroom and His Bride.
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Christians did not walk around calling themselves born again and saved and having a personal relationship for God for thousands of years, that is a new deveopment. It's essentially a rewrite of what existed for so long. I don't judge anyone for following that style of Christianity.
 
CCW95A said:
Small problem is that Christianity is not something you do or say, or what religion you belong to, it is who you know. Only those who know God intimately have eternal life.

Joh 17:3 And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.
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Fine, so I know God intimately, so there should be no problem then, right?
 
PeaceLikeaRiver said:
Christians did not walk around calling themselves born again and saved and having a personal relationship for God for thousands of years, that is a new deveopment. It's essentially a rewrite of what existed for so long. I don't judge anyone for following that style of Christianity.
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All this "born again" stuff, and having a relationship with God started way back with Jesus.

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
 
gonefishing said:
As discussed in earlier threads, I'm not bound by a dictionary. The whole point is that if someone focuses more on rituals, traditions, and rules they will miss the good news. Remember how Jesus spoke to the Pharisees and religious leaders. You run to what you've been taught rather than what Jesus said in almost every post you make.
Click to expand...
The good news does not over ride the need to repent and deal with sin / judge ourselves. Jesus spoke to the Pharisees as He did because their hearts were not in their religion. Religion is great as long as your heart is in it. The good news is that Jesus died and rose from death. This translates into anyone in religion today with their heart in it finding Jesus James 4:8, James 1:27.

The gospel = repent from sin + good news.
 
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