Does God Like Surprises

Discussion in 'Thoughts for Today' started by mattjanes, Jul 24, 2014.

  1. Double mindedness? You believe God is good and evil. I simply believe He is good.

    I am asking you questions and all you are doing is saying that I am not in the spirit. Fine, believe as you wish...but the questions remain.

    Math is sound. 1 + 1 = 2.

    Now here is the equation we have....which many are just ignoring / cannot deal with / face reality

    God knows everything / God knows from birth who will go to hell + God created a hell of eternal torment = God is evil.

    There are ONLY two changes that can be made to that equation that will = God is good. They are 1. Hell is not such a bad place or 2. God does not know which babies will go to hell.

    Our minds are the limiting factor here. We need to look at where scripture points and not just assume God is all knowing = He knows who goes to hell = He is evil. I have power to read my wife's diary but do I? I have power to kill an ant, but do I?
     
  2. #102 KingJ, Jul 31, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2014
    So you believe in no free will but free choice. I can accept this as a rule after we have made our decision to bend the knee or not, but not before. However, you have not dealt with the Achilles heel of the argument. Did Jesus know that Judas would betray him at birth or as an adult that showed signs of rebellion?

    It is that argument that convinces me that we have true free will and not merely free choice. Which is what it seems most here believe.

    We see / read God is omnipotent (all powerful) as 10/10. We see / read God is omniscient (all knowing) as 10/10. Great! That shows our brains are working as scripture does say that (y).

    BUT....what happened on the cross? Did God's omnipotence not go from 10/10 to 1/10? I want to propose that God is capable of 1/10 and 11/10, not just 10/10. There is a greater law at work here. That is, God is who He is. A good God will humble Himself (1/10). Does God humbling Himself (1/10) mean He is not 10/10 or 11/10? Of course not. But being 10/10 does not mean He can't be 1/10.

    God does what pleases Him + God is who He is + God is good = God gives us true free will. God does not know who is going to hell from birth. That is why heaven belongs to the children.

    Our brains simply ''break'' when we try grasp God can be 1/10 or 11/10 ;). It is just like us trying to grasp eternity or how God was created. God can know everything, but does that mean He chooses to. I can read my wife's diary, it sits on her table all day long, but do I? I want to propose that God ''knows all there is to know''.

    Inherent omniscience - the ability to know anything that one chooses to know and can be known.
    Total omniscience - actually knowing everything that can be known.
     
  3. How many Jews died in the desert? I do believe that when God said to Moses that He was going to destroy them, He meant it. He was not just teasing. Not all took part in idolatry with golden calf. I think its safe to assume 60% would have died that day if Moses did / said nothing.
     

  4. So I guess from your response you are not teachable.
     
  5. If you speak with brotherly love and make sense, sure. Both are lacking from your posts though.

    I mean, to say this...is simply arrogant of you.
     
    PeaceLikeaRiver likes this.
  6. So now the question would be. Did God not know what his decision would be in not destroying Israel until Moses interceded on their behalf, or did God know even before the creation of the world what he would do, since he know all things? If the Lord knew before this event happened what his decision would be, then he never did change his mind but only did what he knew what he would do. :)
     
  7. Agreed. It comes back to the same question I've asked Ravindran on Judas. Was he predestined from birth to betray Jesus?

    I say a resounding, NO (n). You say, yes?
     
  8. I say "no" Judas made Judas who he was not God, even though the Lord knew what he would become before the foundations of the world. Judas was not predestined to be how he was, but he was foreknown to be who he would become.
     
  9. :) and that is exactly where we disagree. I don't understand how you reconcile this line with your 'no'. You say ''Judas was not predestined to be how he was, but he was foreknown to be who he would become'' Its the same thing to God the Creator, surely.

    Would you do that? Make a baby even when you know its future is an eternity of torment...and when you have the power to make one that will not be tormented for eternity?
     
  10. How could someone knowing a person is going to hell equate to them to being evil? Is foreknowledge evil?
     
  11. If you are the Creator and know it from their brith, a resounding, YES!

    It is on par with sending babies to hell. We know God does not do that.
     
  12. That is why God himself made provision so man would not wind up there. The only difference is in manns choice not to go there.
    God knowing all men would go to Hell = God made provision so man would not go to Hell = good God!!
     
  13. Unless you believe in universal salvation I don't see how you get ''good God''.

    Your equation is in actual fact:

    God knowing all men would go to Hell + God made provision so man would not go to Hell + God knows and made those who would not choose His provision = bad God.

    Scripture says ''whomsoever will believe'' ''whomsoever will carry their cross''. Scripture = God John 1:1. God said whomsoever. God did not say He knows who will believe. God did not say He knows who will carry their cross. You are assuming He says that when He says He is all powerful. Hence we back at the example....of reading my wife's diary. I can, but I don't. It would be evil if I did.
     
  14. Are you a teacher? What are your credentials?
     
  15. Your math is not correct. God does not choose who will go to Hell, man does. He wants all men to be saved. Does your wife diary include tomorrow's thoughts? or all of her thoughts to the end time? Did your wife tell you not to read her diary? God diary is his Word, so he expects us to read it.
     
  16. Man chooses to go to Hell? Really? Can you think of one person who would send themselves to hell?
     
  17. There are only two choices. Either your chose the Kingdom of God, and if you don't you are automatically go to the other.

    Joh 3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

    Who makes this decision?
     
  18. If God wants all men to be saved, why aren't they all saved? God does what He wills / what pleases Him. He did not say ''I will that CCW and justpassingthru be saved''. He said clearly ''He wills (= created with intent that pleased Him) that all be saved.
     
  19. unfortunately there is something in the way that stops one from being saved, and that is man's will. Do you think a loving God would "force" his will on those to whom he gave free will?
     
  20. And yet The King still gave him a chance to repent his course.

    Still held out hope he might change. But sadly he did not, because Judas placed faith into something other than The King.

    And so it will ring true forever, whatever you place faith into, THAT you will have.
     
    CCW95A likes this.

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