Catholics, Orthodox And Friends

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PeaceLikeaRiver said:
It is describing this particular branch of it, yes.
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The problem is---there is only ONE branch.

You are incorrect. As Exhibit A, all I need to do is present to you the names of a few different Bible translations. Some people insist the KJV is the only one to be trusted. Are you one of those people? What about those who think you are wrong about the translation you have chosen?Not rising to your bait, Euphemia. You don't make the rules here.
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I love all accepted translations---mostly the NKJV, the NLT, and the Amplified. The Spirit of God speaks through them all. God's word is truth and it is our authority in all matters of faith. That is God's provision and the rule by which we live as believers in Jesus Christ.
 
Euphemia said:
The problem is---there is only ONE branch.
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Yours?
Euphemia said:
I love all accepted translations---mostly the NKJV, the NLT, and the Amplified. The Spirit of God speaks through them all. God's word is truth and it is our authority in all matters of faith. That is God's provision and the rule by which we live as believers in Jesus Christ.
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But the wording is different in them. God's word is being changed from version to version. And that is the point I'm making, if you want to say that sacred traditions are man-made and changeable then you can say the same thing about the Bible.
 
PeaceLikeaRiver said:
The Sinner's Prayer, recited by people who in fundamentalist circles wish to be "saved", is not 2000 years old. So your point is demonstrably false.
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Why do you keep bringing up this so-called "Sinner's Prayer"? Jesus tells us how to be born again. It hasn't changed yet.
 
Major said:
In as nice a way as I can say it......this post about fundamental, orthodox Christians is exactly why there is such a division between Protestant and Catholic faiths. This post was given by a Catholic NOT a Protestant and it is fundamentally wrong and factually incorrect. It is Mr. MMurphy's personal opinion and I for one disagree totally with him and his opinion.

His post is not a debate or a correction or anything that came be built upon. It does and will do ONE thing. Cause a further division and arguments over it and it really shows that he has very little Biblical understanding.
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Fundamentalists are not Orthodox. They've broken away from Orthodox understanding and sought to impose their own orthodoxy. Those posts are all common complaints about the fundamentalist movement.

The Bible has never been read as a wholly literal Book. Some parts are, like when it says do not murder. But others are metaphors like 'you are the salt of the earth' others are mystical like 'you must be like children to enter the kingdom of God' and some are hyperbolic like 'if your right hand causes you to sin cut it off.'

The mere fact that I can have an argument about whether the wide and the narrow paths litterally mean more people are in hell than heaven or if it was a hyperbole does not mean you believe in the bible and I don't. It means that we are both falible and one may be interpreting it wrong or both are. But we are judged according to our works not our theology.
 
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Major said:
I do not know about everyone else as I can only speak to my concerns and I never said that traditions were wrong. Some say that all tradition is wrong, or at least all tradition in regards to their church or Christianity as a whole, mostly due to the abuses of some professed Christian denominations and churches who appeal to tradition as being co-equal or perhaps superior to Scriptures.
The RCC provides one of the most serious examples of this, wherein the church itself, or more specifically the Popes of this church, claim that they can establish "sacred tradition" and that it becomes authoritative and must be mandatorily believed and practiced by the church as a whole.

THAT is my concern. When "Traditions of men" over power the Word of God and change it. That is what I have stated and is my position.
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I think you are right to be concerned about Tradition of Man. We really should reject this because the Christ taught us to.

Perhaps the underlying question should be does the Catholic Church teach tradition of man, or does it teach tradition of God? That's ultimately what the discussion is. Catholics also reject Traditions of men, we just disagree on what those traditions are from non-Catholics. We're all on board though. :)
 
PeaceLikeaRiver said:
Yours?
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It is the Body of Christ.

But the wording is different in them. God's word is being changed from version to version. And that is the point I'm making, if you want to say that sacred traditions are man-made and changeable then you can say the same thing about the Bible.
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The Spirit of God has wrought it so that we have viable translations to fit with our modern culture. I praise Him for that! The word of God has never changed!
 
PeaceLikeaRiver said:
People often miss this point, thank you for making it. It is a grave sin in the Catholic Church to worship Mary.
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Indeed. It goes against the first Commandment.
I have heard, sadly, one priest say we should worship her. He was immediately reported to his diocese where they had to sit with him and talk to him about this heresy (basically an inquisition). I'm not sure if he is still with the Catholic Church or not, but it was addressed pretty quickly.
 
Major said:
I do not know about everyone else as I can only speak to my concerns and I never said that traditions were wrong. Some say that all tradition is wrong, or at least all tradition in regards to their church or Christianity as a whole, mostly due to the abuses of some professed Christian denominations and churches who appeal to tradition as being co-equal or perhaps superior to Scriptures.
The RCC provides one of the most serious examples of this, wherein the church itself, or more specifically the Popes of this church, claim that they can establish "sacred tradition" and that it becomes authoritative and must be mandatorily believed and practiced by the church as a whole.

THAT is my concern. When "Traditions of men" over power the Word of God and change it. That is what I have stated and is my position.
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I share your concerns. Which is why I more closely identify with Eastern Orthodoxy.

However it is catholic dogma that scripture is infallible. As for the Pope, it would take a brave pope to implement a tradition that he did not believe in, because catholics hold that if the Holy Spirit could not change his mind He would simply unseat him. If you catch my drift.

I don't personally believe all the dogmas of the church, but it doesn't mean I think they are not christian.
 
Euphemia said:
So, what has this to do with anything?
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Simply that there is no unity or even common understanding of how one is saved, which you are saying has not changed in 2000 years. If you don't do the Sinner's Prayer to be saved, fine, but a great many fundamentalists do. If you don't agree with them then you're just making my point. It's hardly a unified thing.
 
PeaceLikeaRiver said:
My experience is that anti-Catholics feel Catholics embrace "traditions of men" even though you and I know they're incorrect.
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If the Catholic Church did embrace traditions of men, then the non-Catholics would be right for rejecting Catholicism. The discussion between Catholics and non-Catholics sometimes jump over certain topics should should first be addressed since both tend to presuppose.
 
PeaceLikeaRiver said:
It is the words of the Catholic Church that Mary is coequal with God? I think not. Let's let Lysander confirm.
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YES they are!!!

I love Larry to pieces but I do not need him to confirm what is a know fact. Everything I post concerning the Catholic faith comes directly from their information which is very easy to find. I do that for ONE reason. It is to show that you do not have a problem with ME but your own faith's teachings.

RCC Catechism..............
"She, (Mary) is inseparably linked with he saving work of her Son. (Pg. 332, #1172).

RCC Catechism...............
Mary is like Jesus.
"Taken up to heaven she (Mary) did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation". (Page 274-275.....#969).

Those are NOT my words but come directly from the sources listed.

My conversation is NOT an argument simply that there is no mention in Scriptures where Mary has anything to do with salvation.

Her intercessions will not help for the Bible says JESUS is the ONLY WAY to God:
"neither is there salvation in any other: for there is NONE OTHER NAME under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." -Acts 4:12

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, BUT BY ME." -John 14:6

"I AM THE DOOR: by me if any man enter in, HE SHALL BE SAVED..." -John 10:9

Nowhere in the Bible is it said Mary is inseparably linked with the saving work of her Son. It says quite the opposite.
"I, even I, am the LORD; and BESIDE ME THERE IS NO SAVIOUR." -Isa. 43:11
"Yet I am the LORD thy God...THERE IS NO SAVIOUR BESIDES ME." -Hosea 13:4
"The GOD of my rock HE IS....MY SAVIOUR..." -2 Sam. 22:3

If you choose to reject the Bible, and follow the traditions of the RCC, it fine with me it is your choice. All I said and am saying is that there is a very big divide between the RCC dogma and the Bible definition of what constitutes Bible Christianity.
 
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