Adam's Responsibilities In The Garden.

[CCW95A]

I can so well understands Peters response.."where else would we go Lord? For You have the words of life" I believe and know that much of this comes down to those who would follow Christ to a certain level or degree and those who understand this is a all or nothing deal, to follow Christ. Win or lose, is not my concern, I have decided to follow Him unto the end and by His grace alone do I trust that I am predestined to be conformed to His Image.

Being a servant of God has sometime carries a responsibilty that might not be plesant to its hear's

According to the Poster............. God knows everyone action before the foundation of the World. To know something is going to fail and cause death, but yet to do it anyway is sin........... God knowing full well Adam was going to disobey him and did not make better provisions to help Adam keep strong. I mean Jesus prayed for Peter that his faith would not fail, knowing the enemy was out to sift him like Wheat.

According to the Post, God just does things, even though God knows its Going to be a epic fail. So the Poster does not even Believe it was Adams fault in anyway because God is the one that put Adam and the tree in the Garden, knowing exactly what would happen. God must be unjust in some way. My Father and I are cool, He does have a sense of humor, and to run on about God Knew, but God did stupid anyway, then post a thread about it being Adams fault is pretty funny. (For me, My Father asked me to be kind and tone it down, I will)

We know by scripture, or at least get a pretty good idea about what happened. God showed me some of this and helped me put some of it together. I mean literally talked to me about it.

That tree of Calamity (Knowledge of adversity) Belonged to God. So did the tree of Life, but Adam did not know about that tree or or the fact it was right smack in front of him. It could be Adam did eat and then when death came, God guarded it.
The angles guarded it, When Adam made his way out. (Thrown out) (Gen 3:22)

That Tree of Calamity belonged to God, as did the tree of life. Everything else belonged to Adam. There is some principle here where God has his sacred things, like the Holy of Holly's where people bought the farm for not entering properly. There are also things God said are mans. You don't mess with God's stuff, its a respect lesson.

Adam should have tended that Tree of Calamity, and offered the fruit back to God. Satan got it twisted around to where Eve Believed they were not even suppose to touch that tree.

Satan was the unseen cog in the wheel. God walked with Adam daily, and taught Adam. What God did not count on is what He found.

Now these are God's own words, so I just have to go with scripture.
Throws off what I use to believe, but I can't change it if it's written.

Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
(Eze 28:13-15)

And the LORD said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
(Job 2:2)

God places Satan smack in that Garden. Now only Adam, Eve, God, and Satan are mentioned as ever being there. The Garden vanished long before Ezekiel.

It was in the Garden where Satan sealed his fate. The whole reason Jesus came was to destroy the Works of the devil. (2 Scriptures tell us that)

Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
(Eze 28:15)

God never planed, or knew Adam would fail. God expected Adam to respect what was his. What God was not counting on was his most magnificent servant to turn on him and mess with God's man.

Now some don't like the fact God said he found something, and did not know it ahead of time or predestined it. However, God never created or planed to make junk either. God created Good and creates evil. However, its the created thing that decides to be evil.

Not God's fault, but Adam for not protecting the Garden.

Be blessed Abdicate, thank you for your respect and concern about my conversation about God. I doubt he thought it was funny, as he asked me to tone it down.

Like another poster said, sometimes it is hard to see what you are saying in some of your responses. I myself have the same problem, that is why I try and reread my post and try and make them sound right, and even then after posting I still have to edit them.
Please allow me to make a comment about a couple things you said here. The first is "Eden the garden of God", and "The garden of Eden" are not the same place, even though they sound the same. Eden the garden of God is where Lucifer ruled, and had a throne. Lucifer's throne was on this earth....

Isaiah 14:12 "How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low!
Isaiah 14:13 You said in your heart, 'I will ascend to heaven; above the stars of God I will set my throne on high; I will sit on the mount of assembly in the far reaches of the north;
Isaiah 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.'

Lucifer could not ascend above the "clouds" unless he was first below the clouds, which means his throne was on earth.
Yet he was cast back down to earth as he failed in his attempt to be like the most high God. This time period was not found in the Genesis chapter one account, and is not where Adam lived. Adam was created and placed in the garden of Eden. He had authority to rule earth which God gave him. Adam and Lucifer were not ruling earth in the same time . Lucifer was already a fallen angel in the garden of Eden. There is a lot more scripture, and information about these two time periods which could be discussed in another thread. They are also controversial to many in the Church today. I don't find them controversial at all as truth is never that way. It is able to stand on it's own two feet without any help from anyone.

 

[MichaelH]

Being a servant of God has sometime carries a responsibilty that might not be plesant to its hear's


Like another poster said, sometimes it is hard to see what you are saying in some of your responses. I myself have the same problem, that is why I try and reread my post and try and make them sound right, and even then after posting I still have to edit them.
Please allow me to make a comment about a couple things you said here. The first is "Eden the garden of God", and "The garden of Eden" are not the same place, even though they sound the same. Eden the garden of God is where Lucifer ruled, and had a throne. Lucifer's throne was on this earth....

Isaiah 14:12 "How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low!
Isaiah 14:13 You said in your heart, 'I will ascend to heaven; above the stars of God I will set my throne on high; I will sit on the mount of assembly in the far reaches of the north;
Isaiah 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.'

Lucifer could not ascend above the "clouds" unless he was first below the clouds, which means his throne was on earth.
Yet he was cast back down to earth as he failed in his attempt to be like the most high God. This time period was not found in the Genesis chapter one account, and is not where Adam lived. Adam was created and placed in the garden of Eden. He had authority to rule earth which God gave him. Adam and Lucifer were not ruling earth in the same time . Lucifer was already a fallen angel in the garden of Eden. There is a lot more scripture, and information about these two time periods which could be discussed in another thread. They are also controversial to many in the Church today. I don't find them controversial at all as truth is never that way. It is able to stand on it's own two feet without any help from anyone.

The only account we have of Satan being cursed is in the garden. God said he found sin and mentioned the garden. You say its not the same garden. What other scripture do you have that Satan was in hot water before Adam.
You can say Isaiah 14.

But Satan was getting blasted for stomping kingdoms not around during Adam. Satan blew it by messing with Adam. Unless you have some scripture that says different.

 

[CCW95A]

The only account we have of Satan being cursed is in the garden. God said he found sin and mentioned the garden. You say its not the same garden. What other scripture do you have that Satan was in hot water before Adam.
You can say Isaiah 14.

But Satan was getting blasted for stomping kingdoms not around during Adam. Satan blew it by messing with Adam. Unless you have some scripture that says different.

Lucifer's sin was he wanted to be like God, and he attempted this act by ascending above the stars and clouds of God in attempt to overthrow God along with 1/3 of the angels of God that followed him. But he was cast back down to earth. This all happened before Adam. Lucifer's sin was not connected to deceiving Eve, as he was already fallen at that time. If it did happen during Adams rule there is no mentioned of it any were in Gen after man was placed in the garden of Eden, so it had to be before Adam rule. Plus, it would not be wise to have two beings having authority on the earth at the same time.

 

[MichaelH]

Lucifer's sin was he wanted to be like God, and he attempted this act by ascending above the stars and clouds of God in attempt to overthrow God along with 1/3 of the angels of God that followed him. But he was cast back down to earth. This all happened before Adam. Lucifer's sin was not connected to deceiving Eve, as he was already fallen at that time. If it did happen during Adams rule there is no mentioned of it any were in Gen after man was placed in the garden of Eden, so it had to be before Adam rule. Plus, it would not be wise to have two beings having authority on the earth at the same time.

I am on a phone so.. no bible

Your putting rev 12 way in the past. It occured when the kingdom of God came, hence the authority. Salvation also came with that. Read over rev 12 again.

Satan messed with Adam because Adam was exactly what Satan wanted to be. Godlike .....

Satan was cursed in the garden. No other place mentioned where Satan blew it before hand.

If rev 12 had happened before then I would agree. Satan got jelous, messed with Adam, went and caused havoc and his intent God mentioned in Isaiah.

 

[CCW95A]

I am on a phone so.. no bible

Your putting rev 12 way in the past. It occured when the kingdom of God came, hence the authority. Salvation also came with that. Read over rev 12 again.

Satan messed with Adam because Adam was exactly what Satan wanted to be. Godlike .....

Satan was cursed in the garden. No other place mentioned where Satan blew it before hand.

If rev 12 had happened before then I would agree. Satan got jelous, messed with Adam, went and caused havoc and his intent God mentioned in Isaiah.

Adam's first job given to him by God was to keep, and protect the garden (Genesis 2:15) If there was no evil present outside of the garden then there is no reason to protect the garden from anything. Evil was already in the world because of Lucifer's rebellion, and the deceiver was on the loose to deceive who ever he could find. Adam failed in his first job and let the enemy in and we all know what happened after that.
Any time there is a war there is always destruction, even though it starts in the spiritual world it winds up happening in the physical. What ever happens in the spirit happens in physical. We are at war, and our weapons are not carnal physical weapons, but spiritual weapons designed to cast down imaginations and every high thing that tries exalt it self against the knowledge of God.
(2 Cor 10:3,4,5,6) Man acts wrong because he thinks wrong not only in his mind but heart. A man who thinks right based on God's Holy word in his heart will act correctly. It is a battle of information, some light, some darkness. If you can get man to think darkness without any true light all of his actions will be wrong. He will be willing to bring destruction to who ever does not go along with his own dark ideas. War brings complete destruction to the land, to were you can not even tell there was ever a city there.

James 4:1 From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?
James 4:2 Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.
James 4:3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

Chaos, empty, wasteland, confusion, disorder, desolation, desert, wilderness,
destruction.

War brings these things (words) to a land in which war is being waged.

Can you think of anytime in which the earth is describe as being these?

You should, because theses words are the definitions in Gen 1:2, "without form, and void"

 

[MichaelH]

Adam's first job given to him by God was to keep, and protect the garden (Genesis 2:15) If there was no evil present outside of the garden then there is no reason to protect the garden from anything. Evil was already in the world because of Lucifer's rebellion, and the deceiver was on the loose to deceive who ever he could find. Adam failed in his first job and let the enemy in and we all know what happened after that.

This is getting Old.

Your scripture where Satan rebelled.
Just the scripture............ That is it, if your right, then you got it from the Word and i learned something.

Right here.......... Read it...

And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
(Gen 3:14)

Your telling me, Satan was already cursed before this point? No scripture to prove it, your just saying that. Right?


Start using scripture............ Lets get some facts down.

God told Adam to Shamar the Garden........... A word that can mean to protect, but also use to observe...... Can mean to guard, can mean to

It was used to keep the Word in your heart, and Guard from an enemy.

You have to make believe that God meant For Adam to protect it against Satan............. You have to make that up, to get Gen 2:15 to say what you want it to say...

Adding to the Word is STUPID!!!!!!!!

That is with a Capital S..............

Angels wiped the Earth out before Adam..

Once again....... ZERO evidence in scripture this took place.

Your stupid like I use to be.......... i actually use to believe this nonsense, back in the 90's.
My biggest issue was, I could not connect Satan to any of it, or the angels.

I had to make it up................ I lied to people, because that what it is.... Lying.

Tohu does mean confusion, wasteland............... Satan is not mentioned one time as being the cause of it though.

I will also make it a possession for the bittern, and pools of water: and I will sweep it with the besom of destruction, saith the LORD of hosts.
(Isa 14:23)

2Pe 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

I would say to folks...... See..... POOLS............ The earth God wiped out once already, but it was not like the flood of Noah. It was Chaos when the Angels rebeled against the Lord........ People would go really............ WoW............ Just as dumb as I was.

I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled. I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger. For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end. For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.
(Jer 4:24-28)

There use to be Angel citys........... Wow................

-------------------------------------------------------

Whatever, I have grown up, and I need to Word to say exactly what I am saying. I don't lie or make stuff up anymore, I know better.
I also can't be called out scripture because I am very careful to only say what the word says.........
There are times I get busted, but I will fix it if someone shows me the scripture.

There is only one Garden of the Lord in the bible..........

The Garden of the Lord, or the Garden of God, or the Garden of Eden.,

The same rivers go there there, named the same, and Where God found iniquity in Satan.

That is scripture......... Not the made up stuff your trying to feed me.

Isa 51:3 For the LORD shall comfort Zion: he will comfort all her waste places; and he will make her wilderness like Eden, and her desert like the garden of the LORD; joy and gladness shall be found therein, thanksgiving, and the voice of melody.

One other thing.................... I already have the victory in Jesus of the devil. I am resting, not fighting some spiritual battle........ I would give you the scriptures to prove that, but I doubt you would believe them either.

so, Your scripture that says the Angels trashed the Planet................. Your scripture that Satan blew it before Adam..............

Or, you can get smart like me and realize you listened to stupid people and you make stuff up............. That is wrong, so I changed that. Don't be like I was, blown around with every wind of doctrine...............

 

[CCW95A]

This is getting Old.

Your scripture where Satan rebelled.
Just the scripture............ That is it, if your right, then you got it from the Word and i learned something.

Right here.......... Read it...

And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
(Gen 3:14)

Your telling me, Satan was already cursed before this point? No scripture to prove it, your just saying that. Right?


Start using scripture............ Lets get some facts down.

God told Adam to Shamar the Garden........... A word that can mean to protect, but also use to observe...... Can mean to guard, can mean to

It was used to keep the Word in your heart, and Guard from an enemy.

You have to make believe that God meant For Adam to protect it against Satan............. You have to make that up, to get Gen 2:15 to say what you want it to say...

Adding to the Word is STUPID!!!!!!!!

That is with a Capital S..............
Angels wiped the Earth out before Adam..

Once again....... ZERO evidence in scripture this took place.

Your stupid like I use to be.......... i actually use to believe this nonsense, back in the 90's.
My biggest issue was, I could not connect Satan to any of it, or the angels.

I had to make it up................ I lied to people, because that what it is.... Lying.

Tohu does mean confusion, wasteland............... Satan is not mentioned one time as being the cause of it though.

I will also make it a possession for the bittern, and pools of water: and I will sweep it with the besom of destruction, saith the LORD of hosts.
(Isa 14:23)

2Pe 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

I would say to folks...... See..... POOLS............ The earth God wiped out once already, but it was not like the flood of Noah. It was Chaos when the Angels rebeled against the Lord........ People would go really............ WoW............ Just as dumb as I was.

I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled. I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger. For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end. For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black: because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.
(Jer 4:24-28)

There use to be Angel citys........... Wow................

-------------------------------------------------------

Whatever, I have grown up, and I need to Word to say exactly what I am saying. I don't lie or make stuff up anymore, I know better.
I also can't be called out scripture because I am very careful to only say what the word says.........
There are times I get busted, but I will fix it if someone shows me the scripture.

There is only one Garden of the Lord in the bible..........

The Garden of the Lord, or the Garden of God, or the Garden of Eden.,

The same rivers go there there, named the same, and Where God found iniquity in Satan.

That is scripture......... Not the made up stuff your trying to feed me.
Isa 51:3 For the LORD shall comfort Zion: he will comfort all her waste places; and he will make her wilderness like Eden, and her desert like the garden of the LORD; joy and gladness shall be found therein, thanksgiving, and the voice of melody.

One other thing.................... I already have the victory in Jesus of the devil. I am resting, not fighting some spiritual battle........ I would give you the scriptures to prove that, but I doubt you would believe them either.

so, Your scripture that says the Angels trashed the Planet................. Your scripture that Satan blew it before Adam..............

Or, you can get smart like me and realize you listened to stupid people and you make stuff up............. That is wrong, so I changed that. Don't be like I was, blown around with every wind of doctrine...............

The word "Keep" (From the "complete Word study" dictionary)
šāmar: A verb meaning to watch, Adam and Eve were to watch over and to keep, to preserve, to guard, to be careful, to watch over, to watch carefully over, to be on one's guard. The verb means to watch, to guard, to care for and care for the Garden of Eden where the Lord had placed them.

How do you guard something? By doing what? By observing it, keeping your eye on it. As soon as you take your eyes off of what you are guarding, you are no longer guarding it. Adam took his eyes off the garden and began looking at the things the Lord told him not to eat from. The process of eating begins with seeing first. All of mans senses are included in the eating process, not just putting something in your mouth.

Heb 11:3 By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.

When God creates something new he does not use existing material that is already visible. The things that were created by God did not start as something visible as we read in Genesis 1:2. Hebrews 11:3 ......... so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.

The Lord can and does restore and recreate things using existing material but he does not create something new that way.

2Peter 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
2Peter 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
2Peter 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
2Peter 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
2Peter 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

The world that then "was" was overflowed with water and perished. The word "perished" means to destroy completely.
Most people think this was Noah's flood, but in his flood the earth was not completely destroyed as we see in this verse. All the vegetation and trees all came back on there own after the waters slowly receded back after a period of 150 days. (Genesis 8:3)
In this flood God rebuked the waters and they quickly fled in haste. Of course this talking about the Genesis account of chapter 1.

Psa 104:5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.
Psa 104:6 Thou coveredst it with the deep as with a garment: the waters stood above the mountains.
Psa 104:7 At thy rebuke they fled; at the voice of thy thunder they hasted away.

This is certainly not Noah's flood.

2Peter 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
2Peter 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

The world that was (past tense) was overflowed with water and perished, but the world that "now" is reserved unto fire.
The world that was is not the same world that now is. All things are not continuing the same from the beginning as a lot of people think it is. There have been many changes to the earth since it first being brought into existence by the Word of God.

 

[MichaelH]

The word "Keep" (From the "complete Word study" dictionary)
šāmar: A verb meaning to watch, Adam and Eve were to watch over and to keep, to preserve, to guard, to be careful, to watch over, to watch carefully over, to be on one's guard. The verb means to watch, to guard, to care for and care for the Garden of Eden where the Lord had placed them.

How do you guard something? By doing what? By observing it, keeping your eye on it. As soon as you take your eyes off of what you are guarding, you are no longer guarding it. Adam took his eyes off the garden and began looking at the things the Lord told him not to eat from. The process of eating begins with seeing first. All of mans senses are included in the eating process, not just putting something in your mouth.

Heb 11:3 By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.

When God creates something new he does not use existing material that is already visible. The things that were created by God did not start as something visible as we read in Genesis 1:2. Hebrews 11:3 ......... so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible.

The Lord can and does restore and recreate things using existing material but he does not create something new that way.

2Peter 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
2Peter 3:4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
2Peter 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
2Peter 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
2Peter 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

Ya, I just mentioned all this scriptures in Peter about the Water, and bla, bla, bla.........

The Lord Ask me to be nice to you, and be of any help I can be, despite my agitation with People who are blinded on the forums.

I use to believe like you did, same scriptures and then some.

You may not receive this now, but that is fine, you will someday, at some point. You have some revelation that others don't care to take the time or the Word serious enough to find. You don't throw baby out with the bath water.

God had to fix how I read his Word, it was not because I was smart, but I constantly am willing to change and get in line with scripture. In Fact, because of doctrine I made a comment about we are not suppose to mourn and here comes Messiah and post a scripture at me.

Now I could have just held my stance, which is what I would have done in the past, but it would not be right to him, or me since the scripture he gave countered what I said. I have how many years with God compared to his? Yet, scripture is scripture. I had to go back and we pieced it out together. There is a mourning I came to find that is good, and there is a mourning that is not Good. Being hard Core faith oriented, I did not accept any Word for mourning, until I was presented a scripture that I had blown off. All scripture must line up.

I break it down for you about this doctrine, the Way God did for me. Where is the scripture that Adam had to watch the Garden, Guard, "Thorn it about" to protect it from Satan?

There is none. We have to add it was from Satan in there. "Things not seen"

Where is the scripture, that the Earth was destroyed before Adam?

There is none.............

The Word that Was, perished and new things since then have came by which people are ignorant............ NOT NOAH'S FLOOD.

Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever. Thou coveredst it with the deep as with a garment: the waters stood above the mountains. At thy rebuke they fled; at the voice of thy thunder they hasted away.
(Psa 104:5-7)

And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
(Gen 1:6)

Psalms is just describing God speaking in Genesis. Not connected to any destroyed earth before Adam.

The Earth was without form and Void........... Confused wasteland, with no features or any discernible parts.
The Earth was filled with Water, God spoke and the ground separated from that water and formed features.

Not evidence that Satan got the whole thing fouled up before Adam.

For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
(2Pe 3:5-6)

Gen 6:17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.


Once again, I connected the scriptures for you. God, with Peter said everything that had life perished. SAME FLOOD!!!!

Peter went on to say the Earth was standing in water then out of water, Whereby the World being overflowed with Water............ Noah's flood. The water level raised, and the earth was over flowed.

Peter said all perished, God said everything perished................. NOAH'S Flood!!!!!!

I matched the scriptures perfectly for you, connected them to Noah's flood, Not some flood before Adam.

NO SCRIPTURE that denotes Satan's fall before Adam.
NO SCRIPTURE that tells us of some judgement or destruction of the Earth before ADAM. Someone can refute that very easy by comparing scriptures like I have.
NO SCRIPTURE that tells us Satan Cooked his own Goose before ADAM, WE have one where His Fate was sealed while with ADAM.

NO SCRIPTURE Satan lost his place until Jesus brought with him the Kingdom of God to Earth. (Rev 12)

We don't teach something we don't have scriptures for, and we don't bend other scriptures when they match up perfectly with something else.

This was my issue I had with God, when the Lord asked me to show him the scriptures about this Doctrine, and I could not, because they are not there. He then went through and started to compare for me, like I have done for you.

God found iniquity in SATAN right there in the Garden of God, there is no other scripture that points to Satans fall any other place. Adam was told to protect the Garden, but it could mean to watch over also, or tend. The Word can be used different ways. No Scripture where God told Adam to protect the Garden from Satan. In Fact, God always warned the people of who to watch out for, and I will give plenty of scriptures to prove that. He would have done the same for Adam if God had been concerned about Satan at the time.

 

[Ravindran]

Adam's first responsibilities from God was to guard and protect the garden. Since we find the serpent (Satan) in the garden Adam failed by letting him in. He simply did nothing to stop this intrusion, which is a sin. In the new Testament all we find about Adam's sin was....

Rom 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

It does not tell exactly what that sin was, only that it was "disobedience". If Adam was obedient in keeping the garden safe, both Adam and Eve would have never been tempted to sin. I personally believe the sin that caused Adam's fall was not in guarding the their place were they communed with the Lord. The garden was the place were Adam, and Eve fellowshipped with God, and it became disrupted. Satan all ways tries to first stop our communion with the Lord before he can interfere with our mission. If he can cause a disconnect between us, and the Lord then we will not know what to do when we are tempted as the Lord always provides a means of escape in trying times. Where was God when Adam and Eve were being tempted? Surely he was not far off, but their communion with the Lord was hampered. Adam did sin when he ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, but I believe his first offense was when he failed to protect his family from intruders into their place were they fellowshipped with God.
We to have the same responsibility as Adam had, we are God's garden and we are to keep this garden safe (The place we fellowship with the Lord). We are to not give the Devil a place.

Have never looked at it this way.. Very interested.. I think Paul writes in I Timothy that Eve was the first one to be deceived and fell into transgression. Used to make me wonder why put all the blame on Adam

 

[MichaelH]

Have never looked at it this way.. Very interested.. I think Paul writes in I Timothy that Eve was the first one to be deceived and fell into transgression. Used to make me wonder why put all the blame on Adam

I guess Being deceived there is more mercy as opposed to someone who does wrong, fully knowing that what they are doing is wrong.

Watching a few cases over the years, one women beat her Children to death because she believed God told her He would raise them from the dead, she got life with no parole, but it was over turned and she only spent like 5 years in prison.

There are a few other cases just like that, where the person honestly thought it was God telling them to murder their kids for God.

Then the case of the women who drowned her kids because she wanted them out of the way for another man........ No mercy for her.

Adam did try to Blame God and He did throw the wife under the bus, when God asked him about it. So he was not even wanting to take responsibility for his actions.

 

[Ravindran]

I guess Being deceived there is more mercy as opposed to someone who does wrong, fully knowing that what they are doing is wrong.

Watching a few cases over the years, one women beat her Children to death because she believed God told her He would raise them from the dead, she got life with no parole, but it was over turned and she only spent like 5 years in prison.

There are a few other cases just like that, where the person honestly thought it was God telling them to murder their kids for God.

Then the case of the women who drowned her kids because she wanted them out of the way for another man........ No mercy for her.

Adam did try to Blame God and He did throw the wife under the bus, when God asked him about it. So he was not even wanting to take responsibility for his actions.

So who sinned first? It is clearly Eve right? Then why we say sin entered through Adam? This is a genuine question, wanting to know..

 

[CCW95A]

Ya, I just mentioned all this scriptures in Peter about the Water, and bla, bla, bla.........

The Lord Ask me to be nice to you, and be of any help I can be, despite my agitation with People who are blinded on the forums.

I use to believe like you did, same scriptures and then some.

You may not receive this now, but that is fine, you will someday, at some point. You have some revelation that others don't care to take the time or the Word serious enough to find. You don't throw baby out with the bath water.

God had to fix how I read his Word, it was not because I was smart, but I constantly am willing to change and get in line with scripture. In Fact, because of doctrine I made a comment about we are not suppose to mourn and here comes Messiah and post a scripture at me.

Now I could have just held my stance, which is what I would have done in the past, but it would not be right to him, or me since the scripture he gave countered what I said. I have how many years with God compared to his? Yet, scripture is scripture. I had to go back and we pieced it out together. There is a mourning I came to find that is good, and there is a mourning that is not Good. Being hard Core faith oriented, I did not accept any Word for mourning, until I was presented a scripture that I had blown off. All scripture must line up.

I break it down for you about this doctrine, the Way God did for me. Where is the scripture that Adam had to watch the Garden, Guard, "Thorn it about" to protect it from Satan?

There is none. We have to add it was from Satan in there. "Things not seen"

Where is the scripture, that the Earth was destroyed before Adam?

There is none.............

The Word that Was, perished and new things since then have came by which people are ignorant............ NOT NOAH'S FLOOD.

Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever. Thou coveredst it with the deep as with a garment: the waters stood above the mountains. At thy rebuke they fled; at the voice of thy thunder they hasted away.
(Psa 104:5-7)

And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
(Gen 1:6)

Psalms is just describing God speaking in Genesis. Not connected to any destroyed earth before Adam.

The Earth was without form and Void........... Confused wasteland, with no features or any discernible parts.
The Earth was filled with Water, God spoke and the ground separated from that water and formed features.

Not evidence that Satan got the whole thing fouled up before Adam.

For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
(2Pe 3:5-6)

Gen 6:17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.


Once again, I connected the scriptures for you. God, with Peter said everything that had life perished. SAME FLOOD!!!!

Peter went on to say the Earth was standing in water then out of water, Whereby the World being overflowed with Water............ Noah's flood. The water level raised, and the earth was over flowed.

Peter said all perished, God said everything perished................. NOAH'S Flood!!!!!!

I matched the scriptures perfectly for you, connected them to Noah's flood, Not some flood before Adam.

NO SCRIPTURE that denotes Satan's fall before Adam.
NO SCRIPTURE that tells us of some judgement or destruction of the Earth before ADAM. Someone can refute that very easy by comparing scriptures like I have.
NO SCRIPTURE that tells us Satan Cooked his own Goose before ADAM, WE have one where His Fate was sealed while with ADAM.

NO SCRIPTURE Satan lost his place until Jesus brought with him the Kingdom of God to Earth. (Rev 12)

We don't teach something we don't have scriptures for, and we don't bend other scriptures when they match up perfectly with something else.

This was my issue I had with God, when the Lord asked me to show him the scriptures about this Doctrine, and I could not, because they are not there. He then went through and started to compare for me, like I have done for you.

God found iniquity in SATAN right there in the Garden of God, there is no other scripture that points to Satans fall any other place. Adam was told to protect the Garden, but it could mean to watch over also, or tend. The Word can be used different ways. No Scripture where God told Adam to protect the Garden from Satan. In Fact, God always warned the people of who to watch out for, and I will give plenty of scriptures to prove that. He would have done the same for Adam if God had been concerned about Satan at the time.

You said......

Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever. Thou coveredst it with the deep as with a garment: the waters stood above the mountains. At thy rebuke they fled; at the voice of thy thunder they hasted away.
(Psa 104:5-7)

And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
(Gen 1:6)

Psalms is just describing God speaking in Genesis. Not connected to any destroyed earth before Adam.

I am saying this....
You are correct that this is about Genesis 1 account, but did you notice in verse 2 the earth was without form? That means there was no form to the earth at that time, yet we see in this scripture in Psa 104:5-7 "that the water stood above the mountains" How can the waters stand above the mountains when the earth was without form? There would be no mountains because the earth was formless! That is because the earth became without form and void. It was not created that way.

To understand verse 2 of Gen 1:2 you first have to have God's definition of the word "earth"

Gen 1:10

Gen 1:10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

God does not call the water earth, only the dry land.

Now read Gen 1:2

Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Notice the very beginning of this verse tells us, "the earth (dry land) was (which means become) without form and void...."
The earth in this verse started out as dry land and then became without form, and void.
Now read the rest of Gen 1:2

Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Why did not this verse say, "and Spirit of God moved upon the face of the dry land"?
Because there was no dry land, it had become without form and void. It was completely flooded with water!!!!

Now we can understand in 2 Peter 3:5-6

2Pe 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

Did you notice the sequence of events here? The earth first was standing out of the water (dry land) and then it was in the water
Flooded, and it perished completely!!!!
Now we can see in Gen 1:2 that the earth was first formed with mountains, and the waters stood above the mountains as it tells us in Psa 104:-5-7, and then the earth went from dry land to being without form and void all in one verse.

 

[Euphemia]

So who sinned first? It is clearly Eve right? Then why we say sin entered through Adam? This is a genuine question, wanting to know..

Adam was Eve's covering and didn't take due diligence in correcting her and overriding her in order to comply with the one command that God gave him. Eve was deceived by a cunning argument, but Adam deliberately chose to disobey God.

 

[Ravindran]

Adam was Eve's covering and didn't take due diligence in correcting her and overriding her in order to comply with the one command that God gave him. Eve was deceived by a cunning argument, but Adam deliberately chose to disobey God.

This still explains only Adam' sin.. Before we come to the part of overriding her, etc, Eve had already eaten the fruit.. Which is certainly a sin.. Even though she was deceived, when Adam was not, still Eve fell to that and sinned.. In a way, Eve deliberately disobeyed God.. Because she also knew that the fruit should not be eaten and God did not say "Do not eat fruit until you can resist all temptation".. It was a complete command.. I can see that the sins were of different degrees.. But ultimately, it is a sin!

 

[Euphemia]

This still explains only Adam' sin.. Before we come to the part of overriding her, etc, Eve had already eaten the fruit.. Which is certainly a sin.. Even though she was deceived, when Adam was not, still Eve fell to that and sinned.. In a way, Eve deliberately disobeyed God.. Because she also knew that the fruit should not be eaten and God did not say "Do not eat fruit until you can resist all temptation".. It was a complete command.. I can see that the sins were of different degrees.. But ultimately, it is a sin!

Because Adam is her covering, he is responsible for her. The sin is attributed to the man, the first Adam.

 

[Ravindran]

One explanation I have read in many study Bibles is this.. Adam is representative of entire human race.. He was the leader.. Whereas Eve was not.. It is like how a Project Manager has to take responsibility of all the happenings of the project.. even if someone in the team commits a mistake, it will affect the whole project and the Project Manager is held responsible.. Same way, Adam was given charge and Eve sinned.. And Adam is responsible for that..

 

[Ravindran]

Because Adam is her covering, he is responsible for her. The sin is attributed to the man, the first Adam.

I just posted the same thought.. The original poster had a very different perspective.. In the order of sin itself..

 

[CCW95A]

So who sinned first? It is clearly Eve right? Then why we say sin entered through Adam? This is a genuine question, wanting to know..

Adam was the responsible party for sin entering the world. Eve surly ate first from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and then gave it to Adam. All of this would not have happened if Adam was obedient to God first command to Adam to protect the garden. Adam did not do what God told him to do, and he did what God told not to do. I believe Adam's first transgression was in not protecting the garden. Sin is not only something you do as a action, but it is also in something you do not do as an inaction.

Jas 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

 

[MichaelH]

You said......

Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever. Thou coveredst it with the deep as with a garment: the waters stood above the mountains. At thy rebuke they fled; at the voice of thy thunder they hasted away.
(Psa 104:5-7)

And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
(Gen 1:6)

Psalms is just describing God speaking in Genesis. Not connected to any destroyed earth before Adam.

I am saying this....
You are correct that this is about Genesis 1 account, but did you notice in verse 2 the earth was without form? That means there was no form to the earth at that time, yet we see in this scripture in Psa 104:5-7 "that the water stood above the mountains" How can the waters stand above the mountains when the earth was without form? There would be no mountains because the earth was formless! That is because the earth became without form and void. It was not created that way.

Lets go through this again.


Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

At the very start of things, God made the heavens and the Earth. The earth was without any form, and void of anything.
This does not say there were no mountings, rocks or anything like that. It was a wasteland, uninhabitable, and the whole earth was covered in Water as God moved upon the face of the Water and not the face of the mountains.

God divides the Land under the Water, from the Water.
And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
(Gen 1:6)

God moved the water that covered the earth which his Spirit hovered over and brought the water down and land up. No mention of there not being any mountains. Mars has Mountains, but it's a voided wasteland also, same with Mercury.............. Not habitable.

Psa 107:40 He poureth contempt upon princes, and causeth them to wander in the wilderness, (Void, nothing there or discernable) where there is no way.

He found him in a desert land, and in the waste howling wilderness; (Void, Nothing there or discernible) he led him about, he instructed him, he kept him as the apple of his eye.
(Deu 32:10)


The Word (Tohu) just means there is nothing there. It does not mean destroyed from a past event. The earth was covered in Water, nothing there anymore than Deut 32:10 describes, or Psa 107:40 Describes.

God separates the Water from the land.................

And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
(Gen 1:7)

The land was under the water, God divided it. No mention what was under the water, just that the earth was covered in water.

And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
(Gen 1:9-10)

Now we know, the Earth started covered with Water.............. God separates the Water from the land and calls it dry earth.

Just like Psalms said.

Now on to Peter.... You ignored a scripture, don't do that again.

Now we can understand in 2 Peter 3:5-6

2 Pe 3:5 or this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
2 Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

How can we understand Peter is speaking about the Earth in Gen 1:1? Where is that connection?

Peter tells us the Earth was standing in water and out of water and then it became overflowed with water. The world perished at this point.

Just like the flood of Noah, It rained for 40 days, the earth filled with water, and everything perished.

Gen 6:13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.

And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.
(Gen 6:17)

God speaking to Noah, said the same exact thing Peter said......... EVERYTHING THAT IS IN THE EARTH SHALL DIE.

So while you say, now we understand what Peter is talking about.......... You best get to explaining how your connecting that, as God said the same exact thing about the Flood of Noah.

Show me where Peter is speaking about Gen 1:1 and Peter is not quoting what the Lord Told Noah. Why would Peter make up another account not found anywhere else in scriptures?

Start explaining why my verses don't connect in a very, very clear and reasonable way. Just as I have treated you with very precise explanations, and scriptures that connect to scriptures in a very reasonable way.

1) explain how Peter is speaking about something else Besides what God said to Noah, which is the same exact thing.

2) Explain how Void means been destroyed or laid waste by something and not used to define a wilderness.

3) Explain where to find in scripture that God was directing Adam to protect the Garden from Satan, and not just keep and oversee the Garden.

4) Give the verse where Satan blew it before Adam and not the Day He was cursed and sealed his doom in the Garden with Adam.

come up with your scriptures, and be reasonable as I have treated you.

If you make a case with scriptures, and it says exactly what your saying, then I will hear.

 

[CCW95A]

Lets go through this again.


Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

At the very start of things, God made the heavens and the Earth. The earth was without any form, and void of anything.
This does not say there were no mountings, rocks or anything like that. It was a wasteland, uninhabitable, and the whole earth was covered in Water as God moved upon the face of the Water and not the face of the mountains.
God divides the Land under the Water, from the Water.
And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
(Gen 1:6)

God moved the water that covered the earth which his Spirit hovered over and brought the water down and land up. No mention of there not being any mountains. Mars has Mountains, but it's a voided wasteland also, same with Mercury.............. Not habitable.

Psa 107:40 He poureth contempt upon princes, and causeth them to wander in the wilderness, (Void, nothing there or discernable) where there is no way.

He found him in a desert land, and in the waste howling wilderness; (Void, Nothing there or discernible) he led him about, he instructed him, he kept him as the apple of his eye.
(Deu 32:10)


The Word (Tohu) just means there is nothing there. It does not mean destroyed from a past event. The earth was covered in Water, nothing there anymore than Deut 32:10 describes, or Psa 107:40 Describes.
God separates the Water from the land.................

And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
(Gen 1:7)

The land was under the water, God divided it. No mention what was under the water, just that the earth was covered in water.

And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.
(Gen 1:9-10)

Now we know, the Earth started covered with Water.............. God separates the Water from the land and calls it dry earth.

Just like Psalms said.

Now on to Peter.... You ignored a scripture, don't do that again.


How can we understand Peter is speaking about the Earth in Gen 1:1? Where is that connection?

Peter tells us the Earth was standing in water and out of water and then it became overflowed with water. The world perished at this point.

Just like the flood of Noah, It rained for 40 days, the earth filled with water, and everything perished.

Gen 6:13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.

And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.
(Gen 6:17)

God speaking to Noah, said the same exact thing Peter said......... EVERYTHING THAT IS IN THE EARTH SHALL DIE.

So while you say, now we understand what Peter is talking about.......... You best get to explaining how your connecting that, as God said the same exact thing about the Flood of Noah.

Show me where Peter is speaking about Gen 1:1 and Peter is not quoting what the Lord Told Noah. Why would Peter make up another account not found anywhere else in scriptures?

Start explaining why my verses don't connect in a very, very clear and reasonable way. Just as I have treated you with very precise explanations, and scriptures that connect to scriptures in a very reasonable way.
1) explain how Peter is speaking about something else Besides what God said to Noah, which is the same exact thing.

2) Explain how Void means been destroyed or laid waste by something and not used to define a wilderness.
3) Explain where to find in scripture that God was directing Adam to protect the Garden from Satan, and not just keep and oversee the Garden.

4) Give the verse where Satan blew it before Adam and not the Day He was cursed and sealed his doom in the Garden with Adam.

come up with your scriptures, and be reasonable as I have treated you.

If you make a case with scriptures, and it says exactly what your saying, then I will hear.

In your account of Gen 6:13-17 (Noah's flood) Everything died except for the vegetation, and all the trees all came back to life on there own. God did not have replant the seeds for them to come back. But in Gen 1:2 everything perished as I have already told you before, that the word "perished" means to be completely destroyed as it says in 2 Peter 3:5 in which God had to bring forth new seed to bring the vegetation and the trees back because every thing was destroyed in that flood. You do believe there was a flood in Gen 1:2 don't you? The earth started out as dry land and then flooded, as I have already given you scripture proofing this in my last post.

2Pe 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

What about Psa 104:7 were you said that this flood was when God was separating the water from the dry land in Genesis?
How can water flow over mountains when they are formless? They can't! They first had to be formed first before they can be formless.

Psa 104:5 Who laid the foundations of the earth, that it should not be removed for ever.
Psa 104:6 Thou coveredst it with the deep as with a garment: the waters stood above the mountains.
Psa 104:7 At thy rebuke they fled; at the voice of thy thunder they hasted away.

This was not Noah's flood at all. Here is what happened to the waters in Noah's flood.......

Gen 8:1 But God remembered Noah and all the beasts and all the livestock that were with him in the ark. And God made a wind blow over the earth, and the waters subsided.
Gen 8:2 The fountains of the deep and the windows of the heavens were closed, the rain from the heavens was restrained,
Gen 8:3 and the waters receded from the earth continually. At the end of 150 days the waters had abated,

Do you see a difference between waters in Psa 104:7 rapidly fleeing away as apposed to waters s l o w l y receding after 150 days? They are not the same flood!