A Sensitive Topic...

Discussion in 'Evangelism' started by Onehope, Feb 23, 2014.

  1. I spoke of "liberty" in the world view or as some has seen and used the word in the world. Now the New Testament itself is call "The Perfect Law of Liberty" by James...and the liberty of the New Covenant is being set-free from this fallen world unto the Life of God in the Spirit.
  2. Yes, I agree, brother. Nice verse, by the way.
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  3. #43 sojourner4Christ, Jun 7, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2014
    The born again believer must choose a singular reason, because the two choices honour two different masters.

    This is God’s domain ("life is sacred"), to which the born again believer is to be submitted; choose life (Joshua 24:15).

    This is the world’s domain, an authority to which the born again believer is not to be submitted. And how does one define “harm”? Intrabiblically, or extrabiblically? i.e. who is your authority?

    That sounds good, but it sidesteps the issue i.e. whose definition of "murder" are you honouring? When blended together, the bad always destroys the good aka “A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump” (Galatians 5:9). The problem, as always, is that no man can serve two masters and remain stable (James 1:8).

    More than a “view,” Jesus Christ is Life itself (John 14:6). And “freedom” as defined by whom or by what? Again, the problem is one of authority. Who is your authority? Who do you look to, for the authority to do the things you do? There is only One Lawgiver (James 4:12).

    Rather, Christ stated that there is no Lawful world other than his - all others are pretenders. It is up to each of us to choose which “world” we align ourselves with - secular, or Godly. It’s either ‘render unto Caesar’ or ‘render unto God’ - there is no middle ground. This is why, for example, the “Christians” of USA are in a severe hurt locker presently - the result of its “citizens” trying to serve two masters.

    The purpose of government is clearly defined in our Father's word. That is, to punish evil and to praise those that do well. From this, the protection of life, liberty, and property (being gifts from God) follows in accordance with his order.

    But when a government falls into idolatry, it collects information from you because it must know where everyone and everything is, in order to tax or seize it.

    Why is government prone to idolatry? Because governments only exist through law, and law is inherently religious. Behind every law is a judgment, and ones values are based upon their theology or religion. It’s the nature of government to perpetuate itself. Have you ever seen a politician who didn’t want to be re-elected, or a political party that did not want to stay in power? Every one of them are willing to do anything to keep themselves in power.

    Government is power. Government is authority. And corrupt, depraved men, instead of exercising dominion over God’s creation for His sake, desire dominion over men for their own sake. What did the crafty serpent say to Adam and Eve? "Ye shall be as gods". Who is it that has control over men? God does! If man believes he is his own god, or if he believes he is some kind of god, then he will exercise control over men in order to prove it.

    A king rules by his law. Likewise, God rules by his Law, and his Law is the Word of God. Jews obeyed their king, Caesar, and killed those who did not obey their king. True servants of Christ honour him by obeying him, not by substituting man-made requirements in place of his.

    Thus, in law, the human lawmaker becomes a god by determining for himself which of the many theories at his disposal he will apply to his next act on behalf of "the people." Of course, this means that every other law-maker has an equal "right" to apply his theories to the acts he does, and the only answer to the resulting chaos that comes out of the compromise between theories is that one man must impose his will on all others so that one "coherent" view will control the end result. This means, clearly, a dictatorship and nothing less will do.

    Christ never did such a thing. Born again believers do not do such things, either. The only true liberty is the liberty the born again believer has in Christ Jesus.
  4. If a government imposes the death penalty for homosexual behavior, would you support it or would be against it? Yes or no.
  5. A hypothetical situation:

    I have two friends. Last year, we did the democratic thing (e. g. we voted) and formed a group called "Murder Weekly." The purpose of Murder Weekly is to materially enrich ourselves. The method we have unanimously decided (i. e. voted) to utilize to accomplish that purpose is as follows. Once per week, on a rotating basis, one of our members goes out and murders someone who is not a member of our group. The spoils are brought back to the group and distributed evenly among the three of us.

    I have recently decided that I no longer want to fulfill my portion of the obligation i. e. I no longer want to murder someone every third week. However, I now have a problem because our rules require that if one of our members refuses to perform his obligation, then the remaining group members are to murder that non-conforming member and divide his spoils among them.

    The hypothetical situation above essentially describes the very system that governs USA today. It is a humanistic system devoid of God, civil idolatry, worship of the State.

    "a government"? Again, to what authority does one look to for the warrant to do the things one does?

    "Homosexual behavior" is a sin; nothing more, nothing less. Purported authority does not Lawfully execute vengenace; the Lord of creation does.

    re: your quote, 'If Murder Weekly says to kill sodomites, then all members of Murder Weekly are jointly obligated to carry out that command.' Whether it's right or wrong is not your concern. Again, the relevant question to be dealt with is, "Are you a member of Murder Weekly"? Because if you are, then you WILL be required, be forced, to render unto Caesar what is due Caesar... There is literally no limit to the requirements that such a Godless government can (and eventually will) impose upon its "citizens."

    I do not serve that authority. I do not give allegiance to it. I do not strike hands with heathen. I owe Caesar nothing because I take no thing from Caesar. I have nothing that belongs to Caesar (this includes the legal fiction ALL CAPS name).

    As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.
  6. #46 SergioL, Jun 7, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2014
    It seems to me that you are unwilling to be part of an earthly government. However, not being part of a government seems almost impossible to me. Do you live in a mountain or something like that?
  7. You should make a new discussion with this post. Interesting. Is the correct answer to support it?
  8. Thanks! I was thinking about opening a topic about it. I will do it right now. I believe that we should strongly discourage such laws. I'll explain why in the new thread.
  9. #49 sojourner4Christ, Jun 8, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2014
    There is no “new discussion” but the present discussion! Simply substitute abortion (as per the OP) for homosexual behavior, ala ‘If a government imposes the death penalty for mothers who refuse to abort (e. g. China’s one-child policy), would you support it or would be against it? Yes or no.’
    “almost” but not “impossible.” I am in the world, but I am not of the world.

    As far as “liv[ing] in a mountain or something like that,” rather ‘in him I live, and move, and have my being.’ (Acts 17:28).
  10. Abortion and homosexuality are very different to each other. In abortion there is a victim (the unborn child) whereas in homosexuality there is no victim. You cannot compare one thing and the other. Besides, I have already created the other thread.
  11. Sin is sin. And each has a "victim" (i. e. "abortion" = someone else; "homosexuality" = oneself).
  12. They are both sins, but one should be a crime and the other one should not.
  13. This is merely your opinion. What man would trust his welfare to the opinion of another man? I've just described the humanist government of USA (and virtually all purported authorities of the world)!

    So again, the solution to your dilemma would depend on which authority you would choose to obey. Who is your authority?

    Remember, there is a form of obedience which leads to death:

    Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? (Romans 6:16).

    The definition of sin is: ...sin is the transgression of the law. (1 John 3:4).

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