How do you hear the word of God if it is not read or preached ? Then what do you do ? You go get the word of God out and read it to make sure what you heard lines up with His written word AND to gain a deeper understanding..........
Pastor doesn't want members praying or reading bible together
- Thread starter pavilion103
- Start date
But your original comment was that we must HEAR the Voice of God in order to be saved.
Now you are saying it is " man's heart (spirit) who hears the Word of God".
Notice the verse you posted clearly says............" But as the Scriptures say".
Paul is actually refuting what your point is. You have said that it is by the VOICE of God that we are save. But Paul said that all though we get a lot of information through what we see and what we hear there are somethings that we learn outside of the eye-ear gate.
Look at what you posted!!! "Neither have entered into the heart of man". That is NOT what you are saying my brother.
How do we learn those things if we don not get them through the eye or ears??????
We get them by the study of God's written Word!
Amen! Can you believe that we are having this conversation Jim?
Abraham "heard" the word his ancestors passed down to him both orally and read it in print. In antiquity, orality was the predominant tool for disseminating and preserving culture. The use of mnemonic (memory) devices, rhetorical expressions and formulaic structures facilitated the passing down of these traditions and the preservation of their integrity, though freedom was also exercised to adapt and highlight elements. But complimenting it was the written script. Abraham had access to the script of the Thamudic group of Arabia and certainly he knew the Canaanite script by which his sons were designated by the Canaanite Y as rulers. They used both orality and the written script.
This "either or" proposition is logically faulty as the word "hearing" in ancient Hebrew, Greek, and modern English means more than just the ability of the ear and the brain to perceive sound by detecting vibrations. Obviously, deaf people are not excluded from salvation and many have been saved by "hearing" the gospel through signing and the written word. Just as the ancient Hebrew word "yom" (e.g. day) has literal meanings other than a 24 hour solar period (e.g. the daylight portion of a day, part of the daylight hours, an ordinary day [now 24 hours], and a longer but finite period of time); so too does the ancient Greek word for "hearing" have more than one literal meaning which includes understanding something written such as a report, an account, or a testimony.
You are correct that while scripture often refers to the physical ear or the physical faculty of hearing, it relies more heavily on the figurative meanings of the words. I especially like when Jesus calls on those who have spiritual ears to use them (e.g. Revelation 2:7 Revelation 2:11 Revelation 2:17 Revelation 2:29 ; Revelation 3:6 Revelation 3:13 Revelation 3:22).
This "either or" proposition is logically faulty as the word "hearing" in ancient Hebrew, Greek, and modern English means more than just the ability of the ear and the brain to perceive sound by detecting vibrations. Obviously, deaf people are not excluded from salvation and many have been saved by "hearing" the gospel through signing and the written word. Just as the ancient Hebrew word "yom" (e.g. day) has literal meanings other than a 24 hour solar period (e.g. the daylight portion of a day, part of the daylight hours, an ordinary day [now 24 hours], and a longer but finite period of time); so too does the ancient Greek word for "hearing" have more than one literal meaning which includes understanding something written such as a report, an account, or a testimony.
You are correct that while scripture often refers to the physical ear or the physical faculty of hearing, it relies more heavily on the figurative meanings of the words. I especially like when Jesus calls on those who have spiritual ears to use them (e.g. Revelation 2:7 Revelation 2:11 Revelation 2:17 Revelation 2:29 ; Revelation 3:6 Revelation 3:13 Revelation 3:22).
God's voice is internally heard by one's spirit.
What about people who cannot read?
I certainly can't. You are all talking past each other.
Simple, You ask someone to read it for you.
No sir even though I am a believer and believing is what I do - I am finding it hard to believe this conversation is being drawn on this long.
Double post so I will change this one to God Bless us all my brother.
I don't understand how you do not know these things brother. Jesus "said that these people have eyes, but they do not see, and they have ears, but they do not hear, because their heart has grown hard" (Mat 13:15) Every single person Jesus spoke too, they all had eyes and ears, and they ALL heard and saw what he did, but Jesus was not referring to their physical eyes, and ears, but their spiritual senses. You could hear scripture all day long and never hear the Word of God!!!!! Jesus said my "Words" are "Spirit" and they are life. No one can hear Spirit of Jesus Words with their physical ears.
What about people whgo can not walk ? Can they walk in the spirit ?
Come on sister -these what if's are nothing more then dragging on a silly argument but I will answer this.
See you want me to say then they "hear the word being spoken"then you will jump on the band wagon and use this "Hear" as to say - CCW is correct.........However if you will bring All that he has said you must include that the scriptures are Not the written word of God but only what one hears from God while reading......... That is the argument.........
Blessings
Jim
Curtis this is true what you say and @Major says the same thing........
The Problem rose when you insisted that the word of God was not the scriptures written down in the bible. You first brought this entire thing by claiming that they are only scriptures and not the word of God........
What you should have said is to those who are not qualified or have Gods spirit in them or have learned to draw understanding spiritually through the Spirit of God in us - TO THEM and only to them is the scritpures just words. Or the written word of God in the bible is just scriptures with out the spiritual understanding.........BUT No sir you claimed that it is not even the written word of God unless one hears spiritually. His word never changes and this means when it is written down it is still the Very Word Of God.
This is so simple brother you need help to not see it so brother how is it that you dont know this?
God Bless
Jim.............P.s dont you think 8 or 10 pages of high jacking a thread is enough ? We all need to end this......
And if the person is deaf and is also blind, and doesn't know sign language?
I am simply pointing out to several of you here, that you are indeed arguing silly points. You and I both know that a person doesn't require ear drums or ocular nerves for Holy Spirit to move on him.
Indeed, as I have said, you are all talking past one another. Now, shake hands and make up!
I also wanted to add sister that in the first line that you quoted of mine it says...........
Fish Catcher Jim said: ↑
How do you hear the word of God if it is not read or preached ? Then what do you do ? You go get the word of God out and read it to make sure what you heard lines up with His written word AND to gain a deeper understanding..........
Then you reply - what if they can not read.........that makes me laugh so hard..........look at the first line of the quote ----------word of God not Read or Preached....what you quoted had your answer in it......... so yea what if !!
That is quite awesome !! However that is not the point........They key issue of this is the fact it was said that what is written in the bible is not the word of God. That is the entire structure of this argument or debate !!
Then, by all means carry on in your arguing. I am sure it pleases the Lord.
The Bible contains words that God has said in the past, but is not the actual living active Word of Word. Only Jesus Christ who is the actual living Word of God can give life to what was written!! Like I just said in my previous post, you can listen to, and hear scriptures all day long and NEVER hear the Word of God!!! Who said this? Jesus did!!! (Matt 13:15)