Afterlife

[HisManySongs]

Brimstone is an earthly substance. It doesn't extinguish spirit.

I don't think God is using literal brimstone. He has to have a way for our minds to comprehend what is actually being used.

 

[Euphemia]

I don't think God is using literal brimstone. He has to have a way for our minds to comprehend what is actually being used.

And we have no reason to doubt God when He says many times: fire and brimstone.

 

[Major]

What happens to all cast into the fire pit at Gehenna?

It burns until NOTHING remains.

Not so Dave. Do we just pretend that the following verse do not exist?????

Rev. 20:10.......
"and the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."

Then following the 2nd Resurrection the wicked lost, dead are placed into the same lake of fire as the A/C and false prophet.

Rev. 20:14.....
"Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire."

These are real verse in the Bible. What do you prepose we do with them in order to make your wants come true?

 

[Major]

I don't think God is using literal brimstone. He has to have a way for our minds to comprehend what is actually being used.

However by Brother the Scripture tells us in Rev. 20:10.....(NKJV)
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."

 

[HisManySongs]

I don't think God is using literal brimstone. He has to have a way for our minds to comprehend what is actually being used.

I don't doubt God, just that the fire and brimstone isn't the type we see on earth.

It would take a spiritual fire to destroy a soul.

 

[Euphemia]

I don't doubt God, just that the fire and brimstone isn't the type we see on earth.

It would take a spiritual fire to destroy a soul.

As the soul is the seat of the mind, will and emotions, just being separated from the presence of God will do that in very well. Fire is not necessary to destroy the soul. The spirit can never be destroyed, which is why God has to separate the spirits of men from His Kingdom, and from the rest of the universe where His presence is pervasive.

 

[Major]

Also I didn't mean to suggest you were not hoping for everyone's salvation, but certain comments by you and others seemed to indicate an indifference towards the massively horrific loss of human souls to hell which was troubling to me.

As for hyperbole again, I wanted to also iterate that hyperbole was a common literary tool in Greek. There is one translation were Jesus literally says, you must hate you parents to be my disciple, and anyone who doesn't hate his parents cannot be my disciple. No one in their right minds thinks Jesus is indicating that one must hate their parents, but rather that you must Love Him more than anything else.

The Camel and the eye was another one, although I have actually heard that the eye of a needle was a narrow entrance to a city which was so narrow that it required whoever rode in to unload whatever the camel was carrying.

Cutting off your arms and plucking out your eyes was yet another one (I actually briefly considered this as a command), but it is probably meant as a simply warning that you must remove the things from your life that cause you to sin.

There are also scripture that allude to everyone being saved, but I like you don't believe we're able to make a sweeping declaration, but there is hope for the possibility.

I'm sorry if I offended you in the post though, it wasn't my intention.

I am not offended in any way. I understand hyperbole and its use in many of the things Jesus taught. He had to explain things He said to us because we just are not that smart in some things. Just consider the conversation ion this web site for example. We need examples for contrast to make the point become real to us.

I simply do not understand how you can come to such a conclusion. I have never ever been complacent about the terrible number of lost who will be in the lake of fire. I am terribly concerned and that IS THE reason I spend time on this computer site, trying to get out the Word of God so as to reach the lost and allow them to be saved. I have been trying to get people saved so that they would not go to hell now for about 50 years so again, it confuses me that you would think that there is some kind of indifference on my part because I do not agree with you.

You are confusing the words of the Lord Jesus Christ who is the ONE who has told us that there will be more people in hell than heaven. I believe Him and in your heart of hearts you know it is the truth as well as I do. Believing what The Scriptures say does not mean I like the idea of what Jesus said, BUT He did say it.

 

[Major]

I don't doubt God, just that the fire and brimstone isn't the type we see on earth.

It would take a spiritual fire to destroy a soul.

Or a wink from God the Creator.

 

[Major]

Perhaps we are not talking about the same thing. What you saying is certainty I don't discount, but I would call that faith. I accept the Word on faith and by consequence also accept what it says on faith. I don't see anyway to get around the faith aspect unless you've had some divine inspiration or have actually experienced a visit from God. But, I think you would agree that is an exceedingly rare occasion and most of us should not expect it.

Also about the hyperbole, let me be clear, I was not looking to disparage or misconstrue the words of the Lord, I was only looking to break your confidence that there were more people in Hell than there were in Heaven. There may be, but instead of looking at the words as a revelation, it is probably more beneficial to look at them as a lesson, namely, the "popular" thing is not always the "right" thing. I don't know of any mainline church, Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant or Anglican/Episcopal which holds it as dogma that more people go to Hell than Heaven--except, for WBC.

IF you had a visit from God, you would still need the faith to believe in that visitor as God almighty! There is NO way around that.

Remember Paul. He had a visit from Jesus on the Damascus Road. Then he went on after that to write these words........

Romans 5:1
"Therefore being justified BY FAITH, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ".

He said that AFTER he had that visit from Christ!!!

What is WBC????

Listen brother, it does not make one iota of difference what any church says. The fact is that JESUS SAID IT.
YOU are argueing what YOU want to be with what Jesus has already told YOU would be. Do you not see that????

Read this verse slowly and carefully AFTER you pray about it.

Matthew 7:13-14...........
“Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, AND THOSE WHO FIND IT ARE FEW".

It’s not through Islam, Buddha, or other false gods of man’s making. It’s not for those wanting a cheap and easy way to heaven while continuing to live their own selfish and worldly lives on earth. Jesus only saves those who fully trust in Him as Savior.

It is only faith in the Lord Jesus that saves a man.

We live in a world that is walking away from God. Look around you my brother. The great majority of churches in this land are going empty and dry and closing there doors. Does that not tell you something????

 

[Major]

Again we are talking Hebrew and English and not using the whole of Scripture and history as a modifier.

Anyone can cherry pick some scriptures to make God sound like anything they want. That's how the prosperity preachers do it.

We have to get into all of it.

What in the world do you think I have been trying to say to you!!!

 

[MMurphy]

IF you had a visit from God, you would still need the faith to believe in that visitor as God almighty! There is NO way around that.

Remember Paul. He had a visit from Jesus on the Damascus Road. Then he went on after that to write these words........

Romans 5:1
"Therefore being justified BY FAITH, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ".

He said that AFTER he had that visit from Christ!!!

What is WBC????

Listen brother, it does not make one iota of difference what any church says. The fact is that JESUS SAID IT.
YOU are argueing what YOU want to be with what Jesus has already told YOU would be. Do you not see that????

Read this verse slowly and carefully AFTER you pray about it.

Matthew 7:13-14...........
“Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, AND THOSE WHO FIND IT ARE FEW".

It’s not through Islam, Buddha, or other false gods of man’s making. It’s not for those wanting a cheap and easy way to heaven while continuing to live their own selfish and worldly lives on earth. Jesus only saves those who fully trust in Him as Savior.

It is only faith in the Lord Jesus that saves a man.

We live in a world that is walking away from God. Look around you my brother. The great majority of churches in this land are going empty and dry and closing there doors. Does that not tell you something????

I don't understand. I just said there is no way around faith and your acting like I said something else. I do believe there is no way around faith, but if you have faith this precludes having certainty.

In any case, applying your logic would require all Christians to cut off their arms and pluck out their eyes. Are you advocating that and also to hate our parents? And how the community at large reads and understands scripture is of no effect only how you read and understand it. So if I disagree with you I'm not disagreeing with you, am I? I'm disagreeing with God, because you never read scripture wrong and you are the supreme magestrium of the Bible.

WBC is the westburo baptist church which is the only group of Christians who claim to know what the ratio of souls in heaven and hell is. Everyone else says we don't know.

 

[MMurphy]

That is a judgment based on nothing. I have not met anyone here who bears any indifference toward what God tells us will be a great number of people who will miss the Kingdom.

You literally said hopeful universalism has no place in the kingdom of God! It reminds me of christian gnostics who believe Judas was a great guy because he fulfilled the messiahnic prophesy. Yes he did but that doesn't make Jesus' death any less tragic. Nor did it stop his disciples from hoping it wouldn't happen and weeping when it did.

All you can say is that its in scripture. Well yes but it doesn't make it any less tragic or preclude those with tender hearts from hoping that we have not been such failures as God's disciples that we lost two thirds of the population when we could have saved them.

 

[Euphemia]

You literally said hopeful universalism has no place in the kingdom of God! It reminds me of christian gnostics who believe Judas was a great guy because he fulfilled the messiahnic prophesy. Yes he did but that doesn't make Jesus' death any less tragic. Nor did it stop his disciples from hoping it wouldn't happen and weeping when it did.

All you can say is that its in scripture. Well yes but it doesn't make it any less tragic or preclude those with tender hearts from hoping that we have not been such failures as God's disciples that we lost two thirds of the population when we could have saved them.

Christians are called to have a heart for the lost. We are to love them as Christ does. We do not enjoy the demise and damnation of the sinner. God doesn't either. We, like God, desire that all men be saved, even though we know it will not be so. so---we work for the Kingdom in taking the gospel message to the lost and to the seeking, and food, water and clothing to the hungry, thirsty and naked, as the hands, feet and mouth of Jesus.

 

[Abdicate]

Hades isn't hell.

I owe you an apology. I snapped and you and I apologize. Forgive me.

 

[Major]

I don't understand. I just said there is no way around faith and your acting like I said something else. I do believe there is no way around faith, but if you have faith this precludes having certainty.

In any case, applying your logic would require all Christians to cut off their arms and pluck out their eyes. Are you advocating that and also to hate our parents? And how the community at large reads and understands scripture is of no effect only how you read and understand it. So if I disagree with you I'm not disagreeing with you, am I? I'm disagreeing with God, because you never read scripture wrong and you are the supreme magestrium of the Bible.

WBC is the westburo baptist church which is the only group of Christians who claim to know what the ratio of souls in heaven and hell is. Everyone else says we don't know.

MMurphy..............You said..........
"So if I disagree with you I'm not disagreeing with you, am I? I'm disagreeing with God, because you never read scripture wrong and you are the supreme magestrium of the Bible."

Do you really think that was a necessary comment? Really???

It is what the Lord Jesus said that it is. So then YES, you will be disagreeing with Him not me because I did not write one single word in the Scriptures.

I have no need to stretch this out any more as I can see that you are becoming agitated and becoming personal. So.....see ya around later!

 

[Major]

I don't understand. I just said there is no way around faith and your acting like I said something else. I do believe there is no way around faith, but if you have faith this precludes having certainty.

In any case, applying your logic would require all Christians to cut off their arms and pluck out their eyes. Are you advocating that and also to hate our parents? And how the community at large reads and understands scripture is of no effect only how you read and understand it. So if I disagree with you I'm not disagreeing with you, am I? I'm disagreeing with God, because you never read scripture wrong and you are the supreme magestrium of the Bible.

WBC is the westburo baptist church which is the only group of Christians who claim to know what the ratio of souls in heaven and hell is. Everyone else says we don't know.

We do not know because God has not told us. The Westburo cult is just about as far from God and His love and grace as is Satan.

 

[MMurphy]

MMurphy..............You said..........
"So if I disagree with you I'm not disagreeing with you, am I? I'm disagreeing with God, because you never read scripture wrong and you are the supreme magestrium of the Bible."

Do you really think that was a necessary comment? Really???

It is what the Lord Jesus said that it is. So then YES, you will be disagreeing with Him not me because I did not write one single word in the Scriptures.

I have no need to stretch this out any more as I can see that you are becoming agitated and becoming personal. So.....see ya around later!

Its not personal I just tire of hearing people use circular arguments to defend their positions. We all read scripture in light of experiences and what we have learned and we do so in a fallible way. Your attitude from the get go has been that your interpretation is correct. Well fine but you can't prove that by just citing the scripture we're all looking at and interpreting differently. It comes across as though your promoting your own magestrium.

 

[Euphemia]

When we allow God to speak to us through His word, and wait on Him for His interpretation, we don't go far wrong and we don't end up reading scripture "in light of experiences". That is one of the joys in knowing God. That is how and why there is unity in the Body of Christ.

 

[MMurphy]

When we allow God to speak to us through His word, and wait on Him for His interpretation, we don't go far wrong and we don't end up reading scripture "in light of experiences". That is one of the joys in knowing God. That is how and why there is unity in the Body of Christ.

Where in scripture does it say that the Holy Spirit will give you His interpretation?

 

[Euphemia]

Scripture tells us that we are to rely on the Holy Spirit's illumination to gain insights into the meaning and application of Scripture (John 16:12-15, 1 Corinthians 2:9-11). It is the Holy Spirit's work to throw light upon the Word of God so that the believer can assent to the meaning intended and act on it. The Holy Spirit, as the "Spirit of truth" (John 16:13), guides us so that "we may understand what God has freely given us" (1 Corinthians 2:12). This is quite logical: full comprehension of the Word of God is impossible without prayerful dependence on the Spirit of God, for He who inspired the Word (2 Peter 1:21) is also its supreme interpreter.

Illumination is necessary because man's mind has been darkened through sin (Romans 1 :21), preventing him from properly understanding God's Word. Human beings cannot understand God's Word apart from God's divine power:

Ephesians 4:18 (NLT)
Their minds are full of darkness; they wander far from the life God gives because they have closed their minds and hardened their hearts against him.

It is part of Holy Spirit's ministry is to illumine the truth to us. He works in our spirit and ministers to our minds, as the spirit of Truth.

John 14:7; 15:26; 16:13 (NLT)
If you had really known me, you would know who my Father is. From now on, you do know him and have seen him!”

26 “But I will send you the Advocate —the Spirit of truth. He will come to you from the Father and will testify all about me.

13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own but will tell you what he has heard. He will tell you about the future.

Holy Spirit doesn’t guide into interpretations that contradict each other!