Well a lot of folks cant "see" the effect of religious pride, but the common trait we see in the Pharisee is a desire to be legalistic and the expense of mercy and love. Would you break the Sabbath to save an innocent life?
Would You Lie To Save A Innocent Life?
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I see pride whenever it pops up because I have been guilty of it in the past. Again with the legal mumbo jumbo? Lies are not considered righteous in the OT AND the NT. To say lying is sometimes not a sin because of good intentions shows the road you really follow. If you want to think that Christ dying for our sins, makes lying not a sin, then you missed a bunch of scripture in the NT. When Christ says He is the way, the truth, and the life" I missed the part where He said you should lie for God. If the HS within you tells you to lie, sobeit.
Well that "mumbo jumbo" as you call it..is designed to judge the thoughts and intentions of a believers heart and to deliver them from hypocrisy first, above all sin, HYPOCRISY is that which must first be purged! Until this great tree of hypocrisy is purged, a person is just living in a religious fantasy, and cannot "see" the truth.
Christ did not call the harlot or the tax-collector or any sinner a "child of the devil" he called the self-righteous "hypocrite" a snake and a child of the devil. He said the harlot would enter the Kingdom before the hypocrite...
Christ did not call the harlot or the tax-collector or any sinner a "child of the devil" he called the self-righteous "hypocrite" a snake and a child of the devil. He said the harlot would enter the Kingdom before the hypocrite...
Question:
"Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor"
Am on the opinion that commandment is on "honest testimony as related to judicial procedure" ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thou_s...s_against_thy_neighbour#Jewish_interpretation
"Jewish law enumerates 613 Mitzvot or commandments, including several commandments related to honest testimony as related to judicial procedure."
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That is, the topic on the OP is not about the one in the Ten Commandments...... it is more on verse 17b.? .. although false witness is mentioned as well in verse 19....
Proverbs 6:16-19
New International Version (NIV)
16 There are six things the Lord hates,
seven that are detestable to him:
17 haughty eyes,
a lying tongue,
hands that shed innocent blood,
18 a heart that devises wicked schemes,
feet that are quick to rush into evil,
19 a false witness who pours out lies
and a person who stirs up conflict in the community.
Proverbs 6:16-19
New International Version (NIV)
16 There are six things the Lord hates,
seven that are detestable to him:
17 haughty eyes,
a lying tongue,
hands that shed innocent blood,
18 a heart that devises wicked schemes,
feet that are quick to rush into evil,
19 a false witness who pours out lies
and a person who stirs up conflict in the community.
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Wow---that looks like self-righteousness to me. Jumping to conclusions, also.
Is someone who lies to a terrorist or a murderer to allay his goal an incessant liar?
I see pride in that.
Why do you think that this is such a hard thing for some to admit to, when not a single person here would volunteer for an IRS tax audit.
No, I do not see that at all. In fact, what I see from those who say they would not tell a lie to save an innocent life is "hypocrisy and pride".
I am for one NOT boasting but simply saying that I have no problem in telling a lie to save the life of an innocent person. I am admitting to the fact not bragging about it which is certainly not a holy act. IN fact, by admitting that I would is actually saying that I am failing God by such an action.
Then you are simply disagreeing with scripture in boasting what you would do when you can not guarantee it. Why would you pride your self on such a statement? You might not think it is pride but it is. Think about what you are saying. You are preparing to to wickedness so that maybe good may come out of it.
Is the Holy Spirit telling you say these things? Are you sure lying will save a life. Can you garuntee it would? If not, then it is sin, for what ever is not of faith is sin.
My dear brother. I have seen the evidence of your need to comply with the Law of God. The truth is however that you seem to have misunderstood that which you are trying to keep.
The 9th commandment says, “Thou shall not lie”. I think quoting the scripture wrongly is a bigger sin than lying. What Exodus 20:16 and Deuteronomy 5:20 actually say is “Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor.” For the sake of our conversation here, that makes a huge difference, because now it’s not talking about lying in general but a very specific form of lying.
Bringing a false accusation against someone is an affront to the justice of God. So it is very clear that God hates this kind of lying. This thought is repeated over and over in the book of Proverbs. That book has many references to lying but they are all in the context of lying against one’s brother or neighbor to accuse them wrongfully.
Then we have discussed Rahab several times. She was convinced that God was with the children of Israel, so she hid their spies in her house when they were being pursued by their enemies. When the soldiers questioned Rahab about the whereabouts of the spies, she said "they went that way", thus leading them in the wrong direction. A blatant lie to save the spies' lives. The point of this thread was...."would you lie to save the life of an innocent person?"
Now you ask me how would I know a lie would save the life of an innocent person? I do not know that it would because it has not happed yet. But I do know what happened when Rahad did it. Some people say that Rahab didn't have to lie, and God would have given Israel the victory even if she had told the truth. Maybe He would have, maybe He wouldn’t have. All we know is what God actually did, not what He would have done or could have done.
But this is completely missing the point. The question is not whether God would have given Israel the victory, but whether Rahab’s life and her family’s would have been spared when Israel invaded the land. I doubt very much that Israel would have spared her life if she had sold the spies out and then conceded, “Sorry guys, I couldn’t bring myself to lie.” Besides how would the rest of the army have found out about the red ribbon plan if the spies weren’t alive to tell them (Joshua 2:18)?
So the Bible clearly condemns 3 types of lying:
1. bringing false accusation against others.
2. using dishonest means to get ahead.
3. and preaching false doctrines that lead people away from Christ.
These are clearly labeled as sin, not telling a lie to save an innocent person. The Bible remains silent on any other type of lying, and so should a lot of people. There may be social consequences associated with certain types of lying, but to call them sin is to run ahead of the scriptures.
Nonsense. No one is boasting.
You have quite an imagination. I would tell Chester that the mark has bigger ramifications. Hence, only if I knew Chester would go to heaven, would I take it. I would also tell Chester that we deserve hell if we were gay
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Let's consider someone dear to us and not Chester. If they said they would torture your wife and kid for years, unless you take the mark, would you?
The question, I believe is implicitly making a false assumption. It assumes that if you desire to walk in love and guided by one's belief in the bible, that one could end up doing wrong at a personal level for the greater good of others. I believe this is a false dichotomy. It doesn't take into account the Holy Spirit was given to lead us into all truth and to bring us to victory over sin.
Good question but its a bit like the scenario the saducees came up with trying to disprove the ressurrection. It makes the same mistake, failing to understand the power of God.
The first work in the victory over sin is to remove hypocrisy, "the strength of sin,is the law" Those who claim to be righteous by the law, are ALWAYS the worst of sinners. ALWAYS...
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