What Isn't a Doctrine of Man?

[Musicmaster]

Did you catch that title for what it asks?

There's the Bible, then there're people, and THEN there're the doctrines that man derives from the Bible.

So, when someone says to you that they don't believe in the doctrines of men, but rather believe the Bible, they either believe in the doctrine of OTHER men, or they believe the doctrines they themselves derived from the writings in the Bible.

Nowhere does it say, "Doctrine #1...," and "Doctrine #2...," etc.

Entire wars have been fought over doctrine...which one is true, and which isn't. Even Luther and Zwingli fought skirmishes amongst one another over who had the preeminence as doctrinal authorities.

Doctrine is perhaps a more insidious and undermining phenomenon than it should be. What is it about "doctrine" that drove men to wage wars over it?

I'm sure we could come up with a lengthy list, but suffice it to say that "doctrine" adherence is more a thing of pride in the hearts of men than something at which any of us may point in prideful indifference to the love we should have for others. Doctrine is inflexible, because doctrine would have said to Christ that He stop hanging out with beggars, whores and thieves out in the alleyways and gutters of the culture, and yet, THAT is where He was, as He was accused by the scribes and Pharisees. Doctrines are a basis upon which many stand that causes their very worship to be vain!

Matthew 15:9 And in vain they worship Me, Teaching [as] doctrines the commandments of men.' "

Rather sobering, huh?

March 1:22 And they were astonished at His teaching, for He taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

The scribes were teaching doctrine, but they were not teaching the people from that ONE foundation upon which WE are commanded to stand ALWAYS, especially when teaching. That foundation that doctrine doesn't uphold is LOVE. We can pompously stand behind a pulpit, on soap boxes, up in trees...wherever, and our hearers not detect a love for them. Love is the ONE thing that opens up minds and hearts to receiving truth, which isn't a collection of right and proper doctrines, but rather a body of teachings that point to Truth, who is a PERSON, not a thing, or a group of things.

Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.

See? Warnings in teaching...not doctrines, but WISDOM. THAT is how every man is presented to Christ whereby His good pleasure is the red carpet of His acceptance, laid down on that foundation of love that nestles and nourishes relationship.

Colossians 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom, teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

We are not taught to let "doctrine" dwell in us richly, but rather Christ...Who is Himself...TRUTH. Truth is superior to "doctrines."

2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word! Be ready in season [and] out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching.

Not doctrines or creeds that distinguish groupings moreso than to draw others to Christ by way of that foundation of loving relationship that should shine forth from us outward to others.

Rob does a great job when speaking on this topic in the following short:

 

[In Awe of Him]

I'm going to stick my FACE in this and still state.... I REJECT the doctrine of men. HA.

This is my faith... and this is what occurred during my supernatural experience at the beach those years ago.

God revealed to me that HE was the GOD of the bible... and although I don't know or understand ENTIRELY what that means...
It has allowed me to completely surrender EVERYTHING over to His care because of HIS CHARACTER... and absolutely enjoy
the mystery of it all. I don't have an inquisitive mind I guess... Just give me JESUS!!! LOL

I think the Christian sects/doctrines develop when people try to explain what GOD is doing/can do... desires to do.
You can find 1000's of teachings on this and that ABOUT GOD and what HE wants for you.... How to claim your miracle... How to learn prophesy.... how to heal others.... how to become a millionaire... and the list is endless in what people assume is God's will for everyone.

I have not met a single Christian who simply praises God for WHO HE IS ( period )...I have seen that many churches have a time of thanksgiving/worship but then life goes back to STRIVING at receiving from God.

When I say this... I don't mean we can't petition God in prayer... but I mean living a life in total peace and full belief that God will take care of things in His way and in His time.

Doctrines to me are TEACHINGS about how GOD operates and NOT WHO GOD IS.

I believe if we solely focused on discovering all the things the bible speaks about God's character ( who He is )... we would be able to live in most prosperous union with Him.

Just the names of God alone could occupy a soul for their entire lifetime.

Anyways... those are my little random thoughts. A doctrine is a belief system.... however who GOD is ... is a FACT = an ABSOLUTE.

*Edit..... I think I am just a simple creature who needs to keep the guess work out of religion. I am most at peace when I give the controls over to God and NOT have to figure out what He's going to do. My job is to praise Him no matter what.

 

[forgiven61]

A doctrine is a belief system.... however who GOD is ... is a FACT = an ABSOLUTE.

exactly if everyone in the forum would be honest we all have a doctrine .i could add more but the post would be closed see were not allowed to use the R -word in being caught away WE cant discuss eternal security or no Eternal security .. why because we all have our belief which is our doctrine .. which makes it doctrine off man
the you tube videos are full of doctrine of men just a thought teaching is important but whose teaching we say Christ .. then we add our ways with it.

 

[In Awe of Him]

I, for one, am very grateful that these forums do not allow the discussion of these topics.
Yesterday I had to be corrected because I also made a mistake in breaking the rules so
some of my post was removed. I would much rather be corrected when needed ( gently )
then to have the feeling that I had when I was in the big forums.

 

[Musicmaster]

I'm going to stick my FACE in this and still state.... I REJECT the doctrine of men. HA.

Which is as it should be. Well said.

This is my faith... and this is what occurred during my supernatural experience at the beach those years ago.

And yet what came to you wasn't some strange, new teaching or doctrine (and there is a difference). Many proclaim the Lord revealed to them some new revelation of things future, or things past, and even things present. I have to say that I agree with MacArthur and Barnett, in that the cannon is closed. Those songs out there, like that one from the News Boys yammering about how God is allegedly "...doing a new thang," no. There can't possibly be anything new given that it was known from before the foundations of the world.

God revealed to me that HE was the GOD of the bible... and although I don't know or understand ENTIRELY what that means...
It has allowed me to completely surrender EVERYTHING over to His care because of HIS CHARACTER... and absolutely enjoy
the mystery of it all. I don't have an inquisitive mind I guess... Just give me JESUS!!! LOL

Again, well said, because we do not surrender to the Bible because that book is simply a tool...a sign post pointing to the Lord with whom we should seek for relationship.

I think the Christian sects/doctrines develop when people try to explain what GOD is doing/can do... desires to do.

The problems arise when those sects paint a picture of a god with their doctrinal dogmas who doesn't at all resemble the God described within the pages of scripture. When we see "doctrines" that oppose each other, such as those that claim you must perform/participate in various rituals and "penances" to allow the infusion of salvation into our souls, as opposed to faith alone...doctrines alone are a hindrance to the simplicity behind seeking the Lord alone for ALL truth...given that TRUTH is a Person rather than a collection of right and proper "doctrines," as I had stated in the OP.

The idea out there that the Lord desires that we all flounder around, never able to nail down with certainty the truth of all things...poppycock! The Lord desires worshippers with whom He can have relationship with. The fleshly desire for equality with God, or to be someone special in relation to all others...et al, that is the war we have against our flesh.

For example, I was just telling my wife last night before going to sleep, that all those paintings out there that strive to capture a heavenly scene with all the billions of angels, and billions of saints, all standing before the Lord, with most being afar off into the distance that they were merely dots in the painting...NO! This is the divide, like a wedge, driven into our understanding that keeps so many from seeing the glory of the Lord's presence and eternity itself.

You see, ALL of us being in the Lord's presence will be an experience that we will all be as though we have a front-row seat before the Throne. There is no distance out there with anyone being in that outer rim of presence and importance. Relationship defies distance! Does that make sense? He is the all, who is in all. Speaking with Him won't be by way of an appointment, like waiting to see the doctor. Relationship is of vital importance to our understanding of heavenly realities. It is in that framework that we must see ALL of scripture in order to keep from denigrating it down to the missiles and bombs of "doctrines" to be lobbed out against other groupings. If it doesn't start with, and end with, Christ alone, then it is inferior because it is a construct of men for the purpose of war rather than relationship.

Now, I'm not vying for the inherent evils within "ecumenicalism." No. That clearly is a doctrine of men. Those who don't adhere to the teachings of Christ because of their adoption of things derived from persuasion, and formed into weapons of destruction against each other, that is a departure from the centrality of Christ and HIs preeminence over all. The fact that Christ is ONE, that alone should be the only unifying criteria for unity in the body. All else is man-made.

Thanks for the great input.

Blessings to you and yours.

MM

 

[In Awe of Him]

HA Musicmaster ... and here I thought you were going to rip me apart.... HA.

Relationship defies distance!

I love this.... it truly does.... and even though I proclaim my faith to be very simple... it is in reality.... quite profound due to my relationship with God.
I think the most wonderful aspect of my encounter with God at the beach was that I was able to finally see and experience God as the GOOD FATHER. Oh how wonderful that was....as due to my earthly experience with my own father... I was never able to relate to God as a GOOD Father. Once I had that day with God.... everything changed... and all was healed. I still don't fully understand what happened to me... but I do know that I was filled with overflowing JOY and I have not suffered with any depression since.

I don't mean to suggest that all we have to do is sit back and do NOTHING because God is in control... and I think that is how my words are perceived at times. I do lots... I talk to God all the time through out the day. I still go out with the heart to bring JOY and bless people. I still need to be in the day to day moments that happen... but I don't worry about ANYTHING. I am always asking God to help me be content no matter what my lot in life is.

God bless you Musicmaster. Happy Sunday to you.

 

[In Awe of Him]

Many proclaim the Lord revealed to them some new revelation of things future, or things past, and even things present. I have to say that I agree with MacArthur and Barnett, in that the cannon is closed.

I listen to John MacArthur everyday on my Christian radio... He has a daily teaching program... I will have to look this up as I don't understand what you mean by the cannon is closed. I will also look up Barnett... as I have never heard that name.

 

[forgiven61]

Thanks for the great input.

your welcome o i forgot im on ignore ..but everyone has a doctrine of man ..but nobody wants step up and agree

 

[In Awe of Him]

your welcome o i forgot im on ignore ..but everyone has a doctrine of man ..but nobody wants step up and agree

HAHAHA that you used what was said to me.. that is cute. It made me giggle.

It's not a matter of stepping up my friend... it's a matter of not agreeing that this is the case.
I am not churched. I have very little experience with churches.... I grew up Catholic... and my mother passed away in 2007... Since then... I have attended two fellowships over the years ( both were non-denominational ). For the last 10 years... I have been without a church.

I suppose when I am listening to a bible teacher on the radio... I am either agreeing with them or NOT... but I have no idea what their doctrine/beliefs are. They are usually talking about a topic or discussing a bible verse.

I do not believe I follow man's doctrine... and I mean that very sincerely.

Maybe I am not understanding the meaning of the word doctrine... to me... doctrine is a set of beliefs that make up a church... and those beliefs are taught by a pastor of that church according to what they believe and how they have been taught.

 

[forgiven61]

Maybe I am not understanding the meaning of the word doctrine... to me... doctrine is a set of beliefs that make up a church... and those beliefs are taught by a pastor of that church according to what they believe and how they have been taught.

yes and no 1. what makes the church up starts with bylaws statement of faith what they believe. let me give some examples and yes doctrine does tie in. in most cases a church will have a statement of faith. Baptist in most cases will be something like we believe in God the father God the son God the holyghost . saved by grace through faith true doctrine should be from the Bible i noticed you listened to John MacArthur . he is a good preacher But his doctrine is different from most. he is reformed theology

compared to Billy graham or his son franklin they are more free will. the difference is interpretation which more or less means what is the scripture mean. a example is some Baptist teach you can never lose salvation and be come lost again others teach you can fall away and be lost again. most of the Pentecostals teach the baptism of the spirit is the evidence of speaking in tongues . Baptist do not . once again this is a interpretation that makes up a doctrine . its not that either one is wrong . its just they see scripture different . Jesus taught

Matthew 16:5-12

New King James Version

​

The Leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees​

5 Now when His disciples had come to the other side, they had forgotten to take bread. 6 Then Jesus said to them, “Take heed and beware of the [a]leaven of the Pharisees and the Sadducees.”
7 And they reasoned among themselves, saying, “It is because we have taken no bread.”
8 But Jesus, being aware of it, said to them, “O you of little faith, why do you reason among yourselves because you [b]have brought no bread? 9 Do you not yet understand, or remember the five loaves of the e thousand and how many baskets you took up? 10 Nor the seven loaves of the four thousand and how many large baskets you took up? 11 How is it you do not understand that I did not speak to you concerning bread?—but to beware of the [c]leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees.” 12 Then they understood that He did not tell them to beware of the leaven of bread, but of the [d]doctrine of the Pharisees and Sadducees.

see each one of the two mentioned believed different Pharisees believed in the resurrection the spirt and angles . the saducess did not. both groups was false teaching


pardon my grammar its very rough i preach i dont write.

understanding how you came out of the catholic church then going to a non denom. is a huge difference my only suggestion for you is reda your Bible visit churches till you find one you feel is of truth. when the preacher brings the message follow him very close in the Bible. if he speaks something that is not Bible in all the message/ sermon. MOVE ON i am fortunate all the churches i visit the pastor speaks the truth.

the only way to understand if they are speaking the truth is know the Bible . that is how you determine a good church from a bad. there is a church awaiting you. if you find one seems ok talk with the pastor and explain what your looking for. he should be more than happy to hear you and explain the Church he is pastor at.



in closing its like a joke i heard about a group of engineers that was flying over seas on a missionary trip. the plane crashed only one survived . he got busy built buildings with what he had. one day his rescue came in he was showing them around explaining you see that building ? that is my home where i live. that building over there is where i go to church and Worship God . you see that other building? that is where i use to go to Church at. moral of the story some people can not get along with themselves.

a good home church has many functions hospital sanctuary worship center a school to learn and a place of fellow ship

 

[In Awe of Him]

yes and no 1. what makes the church up starts with bylaws statement of faith what they believe. let me give some examples and yes doctrine does tie in. in most cases a church will have a statement of faith. Baptist in most cases will be something like we believe in God the father God the son God the holyghost . saved by grace through faith true doctrine should be from the Bible i noticed you listened to John MacArthur . he is a good preacher But his doctrine is different from most. he is reformed theology

compared to Billy graham or his son franklin they are more free will. the difference is interpretation which more or less means what is the scripture mean. a example is some Baptist teach you can never lose salvation and be come lost again others teach you can fall away and be lost again. most of the Pentecostals teach the baptism of the spirit is the evidence of speaking in tongues . Baptist do not . once again this is a interpretation that makes up a doctrine . its not that either one is wrong . its just they see scripture different

What a beautiful EXHORTATION you have written to me. THANK you for taking the time to write from your heart.

First of all... I am not suggesting that one should NOT go to church. I am stating honestly that I am NOT churched at this time... and quite frankly... where I live... it seems that things will stay like this for now.

I am most familiar with the word DOCTRINE... I highlilghted your words in the second paragraph... because I want to address this with you.
The two examples that you give are topics that I am most familiar with... however I am not so generous as to call it a simple difference of interpretation. For me... these two issues are deal breakers ( in that I would never attend a fellowship who teaches those beliefs ).

I do listen to John MacArthur and I am absolutely shocked that I love what you are calling reformed theology. They focus on GOD and WHO HE IS. I also enjoy listening to Charles Stanley... not sure what He believes... but his sermons always talk about GOD being good... in control and able to work all things out.

I am very careful what I allow in my heart and mind. As a result... I could be guilty of throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Again... I'm not saying that I am right about my EXTREME caution with churches... I'm just saying that I have dealt with a lot of bad theology in my years. Bad theology does a lot of damage to the sheep.

understanding how you came out of the catholic church then going to a non denom. is a huge difference my only suggestion for you is reda your Bible visit churches till you find one you feel is of truth. when the preacher brings the message follow him very close in the Bible. if he speaks something that is not Bible in all the message/ sermon. MOVE ON i am fortunate all the churches i visit the pastor speaks the truth.

I am so happy to hear that all the churches you have visited have spoken truth.... I cannot say the same thing with my journey.
When my mother passed away... I asked a priest to absolve me from ever having to attend the church again. I also asked him to tell me that because of my walking away that I would NOT burn in hell. HA... He was gracious and blessed me... even though he had no power to do anything... that set me free to begin my journey into finding the REAL JESUS. Instead... what I found was a mess of bad theology... which has left a very bad taste in my mouth for alot of what people are calling Christianity.

Anyways... I am happy to be part of the forums... and I am just now starting to feel like there are some here I can actually trust... which is a HUGE step for me. I do believe that God understands the hurts we receive... and that sometimes those hurts lead to mis-trust. That is where I am at.

God bless you forgiven61... I agree that a church has many functions... but when none are to be found... I guess that means it should start with me.

Thank you from the bottom of my heart for sharing these lovely words of wisdom. I do not take your words lightly even though I am unable to agree with some of what you have spoken.

 

[Musicmaster]

HAHAHA that you used what was said to me.. that is cute. It made me giggle.

It's not a matter of stepping up my friend... it's a matter of not agreeing that this is the case.
I am not churched. I have very little experience with churches.... I grew up Catholic... and my mother passed away in 2007... Since then... I have attended two fellowships over the years ( both were non-denominational ). For the last 10 years... I have been without a church.

I suppose when I am listening to a bible teacher on the radio... I am either agreeing with them or NOT... but I have no idea what their doctrine/beliefs are. They are usually talking about a topic or discussing a bible verse.

I do not believe I follow man's doctrine... and I mean that very sincerely.

Maybe I am not understanding the meaning of the word doctrine... to me... doctrine is a set of beliefs that make up a church... and those beliefs are taught by a pastor of that church according to what they believe and how they have been taught.

I don't know what all was said, but I commented to my lovely wife just a while ago on our way back to the apartment about the depths of what this says to us all:

1 Corinthians 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

Paul didn't no go in among those new believers, ram-rodding and heaping upon those new believers theological doctrines and demanding that they all begin attending Synagogue to begin learning the Mosaic Law (as out HR friends teach these days).

His message was a simple one, beginning with Christ's crucifixion and resurrection. All else falls in line. After all, during his first missionary journey, Paul didn't have a bag full of pastors and elders to leave with those new churches. He left each one to sink or swim on the basis of the simple message he left with them of Christ Jesus.

Good stuff, IAoH.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

I listen to John MacArthur everyday on my Christian radio... He has a daily teaching program... I will have to look this up as I don't understand what you mean by the cannon is closed. I will also look up Barnett... as I have never heard that name.

In other words, there are no new revelations to be made to the Church. The Lord spoke to us through His only begotten Son and His apostles. That's not to say that He doesn't make revelation in the lives of individuals in whatever manner He so chooses, but none of it adds to what is already written to us in the Bible. Anyone who adds something to what is written, they are speaking from their own authority, not that of God. The Gospel is sufficient, and anyone who thinks otherwise is not of Christ...the REAL Christ, that is.

MM

 

[In Awe of Him]

n other words, there are no new revelations to be made to the Church. The Lord spoke to us through His only begotten Son and His apostles. That's not to say that He doesn't make revelation in the lives of individuals in whatever manner He so chooses, but none of it adds to what is already written to us in the Bible. Anyone who adds something to what is written, they are speaking from their own authority, not that of God. The Gospel is sufficient, and anyone who thinks otherwise is not of Christ...the REAL Christ, that is.

I think I understand. The CANNON is closed as you said earlier.

 

[forgiven61]

what I found was a mess of bad theology... which has left a very bad taste in my mouth for alot of what people are calling Christianity.

could you private message me what in details you found ? i would like to know for my own personal knowledge i am very picky on who i listen to the difference between charles stanley and john mac is charles is a whosoever what we call free will john is more a predestine to be saved other wise its no use. there is a few other things but Charles Stanley was a father in the Lord i think he was southern Baptist. i have a few of his books he wrote . i had rather hear him on the radio than on video . i like David Jeremiah real well of course Adrian rogers another father n the Lord CALLED HOME

 

[LearningToLetGo]

That foundation that doctrine doesn't uphold is LOVE.

Every discussion of God should start and end with love.

God's ways are higher than ours, his mind higher than ours (paraphrased from Isaiah 55:9), and in his higher wisdom he chose to approach us not as a king, commanding from up high, but as a shepherd living among his flock. From his higher ways he chose to be beaten, dragged through the street and crucified for us. As he was being nailed to the cross, he prayed for our forgiveness, saying "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do." (Luke 23:34 ESV)

The message of Jesus is infused with love. His life and death are infused with love, and by extension the very essence of God itself is love. This message cannot be overstated. Love is the very heart of the Gospel. Love is God.

"Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God." (1 John 4:7 ESV)

Amen

 

[Major]

In other words, there are no new revelations to be made to the Church. The Lord spoke to us through His only begotten Son and His apostles. That's not to say that He doesn't make revelation in the lives of individuals in whatever manner He so chooses, but none of it adds to what is already written to us in the Bible. Anyone who adds something to what is written, they are speaking from their own authority, not that of God. The Gospel is sufficient, and anyone who thinks otherwise is not of Christ...the REAL Christ, that is.

MM

Agreed!

Anything stated by men today as "God told Me" or "I have a revelation from God" is man made false teaching.

You said........
"Colossians 1:28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.

See? Warnings in teaching...not doctrines, but WISDOM. THAT is how every man is presented to Christ whereby His good pleasure is the red carpet of His acceptance, laid down on that foundation of love that nestles and nourishes relationship."

May I say......That Paul warns in several of his letters that false teachers will attempt to divide the church and will introduce obstacles that are contrary to true doctrine. He has serious error in mind, for the word obstacle in the Greek connotes a spiritual problem that will result in damnation if it takes root in a person's life. The Apostle wants his audience to be careful about those who would divide professing Christians who affirm the true Apostolic faith and to look out for those who teach soul-damning doctrine.

False teaching was by no means a problem limited to the early church; it is something we face today. We must take care not to divide over nonessential matters, but we can have unity with other professing believers only insofar as they stand for the gospel.

 

[Major]

Every discussion of God should start and end with love.

God's ways are higher than ours, his mind higher than ours (paraphrased from Isaiah 55:9), and in his higher wisdom he chose to approach us not as a king, commanding from up high, but as a shepherd living among his flock. From his higher ways he chose to be beaten, dragged through the street and crucified for us. As he was being nailed to the cross, he prayed for our forgiveness, saying "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do." (Luke 23:34 ESV)

The message of Jesus is infused with love. His life and death are infused with love, and by extension the very essence of God itself is love. This message cannot be overstated. Love is the very heart of the Gospel. Love is God.

"Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God." (1 John 4:7 ESV)

Amen

Agreed. "Love" is the action that separates Christianity from all other religions! Love for Christ and for all others.

 

[Major]

I think I understand. The CANNON is closed as you said earlier.

Yes it is!

The New Test. was given to the Apostles to write through the inspieation of the Holy Spirit.

A closed canon also confirms that there are no apostles or prophets today who are receiving new messages from God.
The church is gifted with teachers and preachers of the Word today, but anyone who claims a new revelation from God, proffers his or her message as divinely inspired, or assumes authority on par with the Bible is leading people astray.

 

[Major]

HAHAHA that you used what was said to me.. that is cute. It made me giggle.

It's not a matter of stepping up my friend... it's a matter of not agreeing that this is the case.
I am not churched. I have very little experience with churches.... I grew up Catholic... and my mother passed away in 2007... Since then... I have attended two fellowships over the years ( both were non-denominational ). For the last 10 years... I have been without a church.

I suppose when I am listening to a bible teacher on the radio... I am either agreeing with them or NOT... but I have no idea what their doctrine/beliefs are. They are usually talking about a topic or discussing a bible verse.

I do not believe I follow man's doctrine... and I mean that very sincerely.

Maybe I am not understanding the meaning of the word doctrine... to me... doctrine is a set of beliefs that make up a church... and those beliefs are taught by a pastor of that church according to what they believe and how they have been taught.

I agree with you.