What is the "Mystery"?

Discussion in 'Doctrinal Discussions' started by Big Moose, Jul 21, 2015.

  1. You are a modest and humble man and I love that in you. It is a sign of obedience and the result is your being blessed by God!

    Keep up the good work for the cause of Christ my brother!
    Big Moose likes this.
  2. Then I must disagree with you on a number of things.
    From Able to this day and go the end of this world all men are saved if they are saved that is to be born again,reconciled to God,made spiritual alive.redeemed of the Lord.sons of God begotten of the Father are so in and through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
    Even as Paul lays it out in Hebrews.
    In that regard both Jew and gentile are made of one body even Christ's.
    WHAT every Jew may not be even as every gentile may not be is part of the bride of Christ. But seeing she will be made up out of every nation and tribe.there will be Jews who will also be in the Bride but the majority will be made up of Gentiles.

    In Christ
  3. You are not in disagreement my brother. All who come to Christ are saved, BUT all will not come to Christ in order to be saved.

    When that is done, you are correct in that they are then in the body of Christ which is the church, the Bride. Jew and Gentile come to God today on the same basis which is faith in Christ. I can not see where we have disagreed on that.

    However, what Moose was saying is that even then, there is still the nation of Israel and the Church. God is not finished with the nation of Israel.
    Brother_Mike_V likes this.
  4. Oh It is far better face to face !

    To be BORN again whether Jew or gentile is to be baptised into the body of the church ..
    To all who are true born of God whether JEW OR GENTILE they are called to that "high calling " which is the Bride .
    Even as you said not all will come to Christ . So also not all who are saved will respond to that high calling .
    To be BORNagain is to get out of Egypt.
    But as Paul warns all who are saved from the world (Egypt) and Pharoah (the devil) not all who came out entered into the promise .The promised land is not heaven .
    even as "the gates of hell "are not attacking the church.
    Thus even as the bride of the first Adam came out of the midst of his body . So too the bride of the last Adam will come out of the midst of His body.
    As to your last point .I agree wholeheartedly that God has not finished with Israel, how it was ever thought so given Romans and all the prophets of Israel I can only ascribe to the "woman who hid a measure of leven in the meal "
    My question then to you is this.
    If Israel will be saved in a day when "they see Him whom they have pierced" Albeit not all will be saved ,But God has promised he will always keep a remnant .
    Then are they not also in the body of Christ and therefore one with all who are in Christ but gentiles.
    As a NATION however and a city of God the head and not the tail of all the first and not the last then that kingdom of God will be established forever .With the King of Kings upon the throne of David.
    There is then the Bride who reigns from heaven and the Church who reigns on earth .
    and is not the new Jerusalem seen coming down from heaven adorned as a bride?
    I must admit my understanding at this point is not as it could be .
    But my policy is always to hold ALL the scripture that pertains to a subject and reconcile them all to each and in Christ .
    and I hold them till I can. Even though many may seem to contradict each other .

    The question I asked then is a valid one .
    What or why there is much misunderstanding is the general teaching of the church as to the nature and character of the Bride of Christ .
    The prevailing idea that to be BORNagain is an automatic qualification to be in the bride is a false one.
    To be BORNagain qualifies us to "run the race" not win it . To win the prize you needs must run the race and do so lawfully says Paul.
    We the church has made the prize automatic . Paul ran the race . He does not presume he won the prize as far as I can tell .
    John the Baptist claimed only to be the "FRIEND" of the groom ! and he was the greatest of any born of a woman . he then was not or considered himself not as part of the bride .
    For at a wedding you have the bride and groom and friends of both.
    The world is not qualified to run at all.

    in Christ
  5. You stated that.......
    "The prevailing idea that to be BORN again is an automatic qualification to be in the bride is a false one."

    I can not agree with your comments Gerald. I just can't! You are in effect saying that being born again is then based on what WE do and that is not Biblical. We are saved by God. We have no input at all in salvation. It is a gift of God not works because if it were based on what we did, all we would do is sit around and brag about what we did.

    Colossians 1:21-23 .........
    "And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in [your] mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and [be] not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard."

    Being "born again" saves us from the coming judgment of God on unsaved sinners.

    The Bible tells us when we are saved we are new creatures in Christ, born again, washed in the blood of Christ, and we have our names written in heaven, and have a mansion prepared for us in glory. There will be no empty mansions in heaven nor empty seats at the marriage supper of the Lamb because we in some way did not do works to stay in the Body of Christ.. Once you are saved, you are saved eternally, and the proof is............
    "If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled."

    Should we do good works? Absolutely!!!
    Should we run the race??? Absolutely!!!

    BUT, the race of salvation has already been won by the Lord Jesus Christ. The faith that comes by hearing the Word of God is tried, tried, and tried again. It will come forth as gold, though it be tried with fire. It is much more precious than gold that perishes, because the faith that brings salvation does not perish and that is because it is not based on what we do, or how we run but solely on the works and blood of Christ for us.

    I Thessalonians 3:8. Isn't that a strong statement?...............
    "... now we live, if ye stand fast in the Lord." If the "ye" doesn't stand fast in the Lord, then it is not "we." It becomes "I."
    Brother_Mike_V and Euphemia say Amen and like this.
  6. Hello there,

    Please consider:-
    Just as we can establish by the use of the word “adoption” that there are three spheres of blessing (1) The earth,
    Romans 9:3-5; (2) The New Jerusalem, Galatians 3:28;4:5,26; Hebrews 12:22,23; Revelation 21:9,10, and (3) Far
    above all
    , Ephesians 1:4,5; 2:6,12,16, so we discover from Scripture that there are three companies of believers:

    (1) The Wife.
    Israel as a nation is in view under this figure of a wife, their Maker being likened to an husband, the old Covenant to a marriage contract, and Israel’s subsequent idolatrous associations likened to a woman that breaks wedlock.

    (2) The Bride.
    Such as are children of faithful Abraham, not only according to the flesh, but according to the spirit, such constitute the bride and the pearl, an elect remnant out from an elect nation. Israel viewed as a whole is likened to a treasure and a wife. The remnant (which will include believing Gentiles during the “Acts” period) are viewed as a precious pearl and a bride.

    (3) The Body.
    This church of the one Body was called into being under a dispensation of God, which was given to the Apostle Paul for the Gentiles, a dispensation which “completes” the Word of God and which relates to the Mystery which had been hid from ages and from generations, but which has now been made manifest through the ministry of the Apostle Paul (Col. 1:24-26).

    Ref: 'The Bride and The Body' by Charles Welch (attached)

    In Christ Jesus

    Attached Files:

  7. God Bless you Major....
  8. Thank you brother and the same to you!!!
  9. `
    I like the examples.
  10. If then we have run the race In Christ why then did Paul say we had to run the race!? or that he had done so at the end of his life?
    I have said it many times already but I will say it again in a different way.
    To be BORN again no man can work for it .
    But having been born again or to put it another way having the foundation laid be carefull what you build on it .
    To be BORN into this world you have A life . It is not the be all and end all of this life it is but the beginning .
    Our Salvation or redemption has been paid for .
    But there are crowns to be won and a prize to be obtained.
    Salvation is not the race . It qualifies us to run the race .
    To be BORN again is to get out of Egypt.
    By the blood of the lamb the Word of God and the power of God.
    But even as we are saved FROM we are also saved to and for a purpose.
    Paul warns us not to likethose who entered not into the promise because of their unbelief .
    Did they stop being Gods people when they had wandered in the wilderness for 40 years? No.
    Had God forsaken them? NO .
    Did they receive miracles every day for 40 years twice on saturday ? Yes .
    Did their cloths wear out? No.
    But they were out of the will of God and if you recall Moses was without the camp.
    The Gospel has been reduced to the barest minimum. of beign BORNagain .
    I think for A peace sake because after we are BORN again we also have to be renewed in our minds . From the natural mind to the carnal mind to the spiritual mind.
    The milk as listed in Hebrews is nigh on all that is preached and the Word of God has been brought down to our expereience rather than our experience in conformity to the Word of God.
    For then record then.
    I am NOT saying we can buy or work ourways into Gods good book . We are saved by grace and not of works .That is not just words it is what I believe .
    But there is nothing in scripture that I can find that suggest that as soon as your are BORNagain you are autmatically in the BRIDE of Christ or if you will then the wife of the Lamb .
    But as Paul was speaking about husbands and wife and then suddenly said h e was speakign about Christ and the church and in another place of a groom and a marriage .To speak about the bride of Christ is neither abusing scripture or takign any out of context.
    For a Bride is one who is betrothed to a groom but is not yet married.
    A new BORN child can be betrothed to be married . But I have never heard of a new BORN getting married.

    To be BORNagain is a new creation. It is ALL of God . and no work of oursd can either merit it or gain it .
    But I am not talking about being BORNagain but of a BRIDE getting herself ready for the coming of the Lord and to be married .
    The first Adam had a bride and she came form the midst of his body .
    The last Adam has a bride and she too will come from the midst of his body .

    in Christ
  11. 1 Corth. 9;24..........
    "Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain."

    The awards we earn here stay with us when we leave the earth and they will be for our eternal enrichment. Of course Paul is comaring the Christian life to the games played by athletes. Those who ran in those games were kept to a ridged diet. They used themselves to hardships. They practised the exercises. And those who pursue the interests of their souls, must combat hard with fleshly lusts. The body must not be suffered to rule. The apostle presses this advice on the Corinthians. He sets before himself and them the danger of yielding to fleshly desires, pampering the body, and its lusts and appetites.
  12. With respect @geralduk,
    This is an application that the Word of God does not make.
    In Christ Jesus
  13. What then is the prize to be won if we by some have already obtained it? in being BORN again.
    and if all run but only one wins the prize who then wins it?
    It cannot mean that we are all in competition with and against each other .
    But what sayeth the scripture make sure no one takes your crown?
    I agree about the rewards .
    Yet while it says God is no respecter of persons . That too is taken out of context.
    For out of all the disciples he chose Peter , James and John who went " a little further" than the rest and saw and did things the others did not .
    Out of all the tribes of Israel there was but one tribe who "had no inheritance " For God was their inheritance .
    While the thief on the cross was saved or BORN again he clearly cannot receive the same rewards if any as Paul or any of the disciples .
    Lot was counted righteous even as Abraham was but in the end (if not the be ginning ) he lost all but the saving of his soul "suffering loss as through fire"
    Taking up thy cross is not just denying the flesh and its attendant lusts but also denying what are legitimate things for the sake of the gospel ,living a sacrificial life.
    They who suffer with Him will also reign with Him. The implication is that you will not reign with Him if you do not suffer with Him.
    Going by the bride of Isaac she did more than was asked of her over and above her 'duty' . Then the Bride of the Son will also
    What aprt are you applying that to?
    That the first Adam had a bride and so too the last one has?
    If the Lord is called the "second and last Adam"
    he then is likened unto the first .
    Indeed is it not written that the first Adam was but a "foreshadow of Him who was to come"?
    What then is a foreshadow if not that which gives a rough outline or shadow of that which it foretells of?
    Eve came out of the midst of the body of the first Adam.
    Then to say that the Bride of Christ comes out of the midst of His body,is neither misapplying the Word of God or abusing or "twisting the scriptures "
    if on the other hand you was speaking of another part let me know and I will if I can expand on it .
    if on the other hand you suggest that nothing I said has any true application of scripture in the matter, you would have to indicate in some manner why .

    in Christ
  14. Jesus is the prize.
  15. I would agree.
    Then the question is what race cane be won to win Christ?

    In Christ
  16. The race spoken of by Paul is to accept the high calling of Christ, living out our faith before men, to reflect the love of God and to tell the unbelieving world of the wonderful gift of grace---salvation, that God has provided for them, and to live out our salvation with excellence and endurance, until we take our final breath.
  17. John 14:6.........
    "Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also."
  18. After salvation we begin our surrender to the Holy Spirit, to walk the exact same steps Jesus did through the obedience of the Holy Spirit to fulfill the will of God, to be more than overcomes, not just overcomes. Jesus did this as man and we are expected to follow suit. The race is simply a metaphor to execute self discipline to the will of God and to live in faith and do not just hear the word of God.
    Euphemia likes this.
  19. That calling is the norm of a Christian life . even as it is our "reasonable " service to God to present our bodies a living sacrifice.
    The high calling of God is to be in the Bride .to which we are called to.

    In Christ
  20. My heart is not troubled about the matter . What it is troubled about if you will , is the misdirection many people have received pertaining to the Bride of Christ .

    in Christ

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