Tithing vs Giving

[Musicmaster]

Hello Garee;

There is a difference between "Tithes," or "tenth" from the Old Testament in Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy, vs Giving, or Offering in the New Testament in Mark 12, Luke, 2 Corinthians.

In the context of Mark 12:42 do you believe the widow fulfilled her whole offering? How do you reconcile this to the lesson Jesus was teaching?

In your own words, please help me understand your teaching of the tithe in the Old Testament and how this distinguishes from our giving/offerings in the New Testament.

In our fellowship which is my motive, please help me understand, Garee.

God bless you, brother, and thank you.

I don't presume to speak for Garee. I'm speaking from my own experience with the widow's mites.

Many have told me over the years that the widow's "tithe" was all she had, as Jesus indicated.

Now, if we look at what is not said in that context that many people assume into it, that collection had nothing to do with the tithe collected by the Levites, although many people assume the tithe into that collection effort. Jesus did not say that the widow had no children upon whom she could fall back upon to survive the cold nights, and for food to eat for survival, but many people assumed she gave herself into abject poverty with nothing left to survive. Again, not stated in the context.

I sometimes catch myself wishing they had printed our Bibles with less white space between the black and red lettering so that there wasn't enough of it left to inject into the text what isn't said.

Locally, the JW's are sending out letters rather than going door to door, and their letter spiritualized some biblical texts to try and say to us that peace and good times are coming our way. My wife responded with what Revelation says, in that there are indeed peaceful times coming, but then that all Hell will shatter that peace 42 months later; that the man of sin will declare himself god in the holy place, and demand to be worshipped by the world, which has never happened before.

It's amazing what it will take to get the last, remaining one third of the Jews in those days to admit they had pierced the Messiah.

The Lord is so Awesome, contrary to modern blasphemies of kids and adults calling other people and things "awesome." Only God is awesome, period.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

Sorry to confuse you. Speaking against government was probably not the best wording. Speaking against Politicians who do not make moral choices would be better said.

In other words, a politician who supports abortion should be called out and his stance condemned. A president for example who commits' adultery's should be called out for his lack of morality.

I supported everything that Dr. Kennedy tried to do!

Their is a law that prohibits tax-exempt charitable organizations such as churches from participating directly or indirectly in any political campaign to support or oppose a candidate. If the IRS determines that a group has violated the law, it can revoke its tax-exempt status.

The law is called the Johnson Amendment after former President Lyndon Johnson, who introduced it in 1954 when he was a Democratic senator from Texas. Johnson was upset because a few nonprofit groups attacked him as a communist in a Senate campaign.

Perhaps the difference is that if the sermon is purely on political grounds, such as communism, that can indeed stand up in court, but when the minister is speaking along the lines of morality as taught in the Bible, that's no longer a matter of it being purely political. That's probably how D. James Kennedy got away with it in Florida. He didn't even have to mention Clinton's name, but simply stated the issue and its immoral constructs within scripture. He also talked much about evolution, a religion under the guise of "science" that is established and promoted by our government, contrary to the Constitutional restraints within the Establishment Clause they love using against "churches."

Thanks for the clarification and feedback.

MM

 

[Major]

Perhaps the difference is that if the sermon is purely on political grounds, such as communism, that can indeed stand up in court, but when the minister is speaking along the lines of morality as taught in the Bible, that's no longer a matter of it being purely political. That's probably how D. James Kennedy got away with it in Florida. He didn't even have to mention Clinton's name, but simply stated the issue and its immoral constructs within scripture. He also talked much about evolution, a religion under the guise of "science" that is established and promoted by our government, contrary to the Constitutional restraints within the Establishment Clause they love using against "churches."

Thanks for the clarification and feedback.

MM

God love you brother!

Also.....as you stated, I am not aware of any church that has been approached by the IRS due to anything toward a politician.

If that happened......it would open the flood gates of opposition!

 

[Musicmaster]

In the past four years, Romans 13:1-5 have been difficult to obey. I am still not sure the current interpretation of this passage. We have so many governments and some (mostly in other countries, not not all) really bad leaders. "If you do what is right, you won’t need to be afraid of your rulers" appears to be at odds with itself.

There is a biblical limit to obedience to governing officials and their laws.

Perhaps we can look at those in the light of absolute morality:

Acts 5:26-32

26 Then went the captain with the officers, and brought them without violence: for they feared the people, lest they should have been stoned. 27 And when they had brought them, they set [them] before the council: and the high priest asked them, 28 Saying, Did not we straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name? and, behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man's blood upon us. 29 Then Peter and the [other] apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men. 30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree. 31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand [to be] a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins. 32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and [so is] also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

So, This provides qualification to the understanding that there are limits to governmental powers. When they use our tax dollars for the evils of abortion, for example, that is not us who are guilty, but the governing officials who create and enforce such policies, and so they will be held to account for it since the power was in their hands. They cannot force us to march in support of abortion, nor to speak good thing in support of abortion.

I realize you likely knew all this, and so my preaching to the choir, so to speak, but it may benefit others.

MM

 

[Garee]

Hello Garee;

There is a difference between "Tithes," or "tenth" from the Old Testament in Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy, vs Giving, or Offering in the New Testament in Mark 12, Luke, 2 Corinthians.

In the context of Mark 12:42 do you believe the widow fulfilled her whole offering? How do you reconcile this to the lesson Jesus was teaching?

In your own words, please help me understand your teaching of the tithe in the Old Testament and how this distinguishes from our giving/offerings in the New Testament.

In our fellowship which is my motive, please help me understand, Garee.

God bless you, brother, and thank you.

Thanks for the reply.

I would offer. The tithe represents the work of Christ that he works in us with us.. . .not of us

I would think it’s not necessarily all of the worldly goods or animals like in the Old Testament but ones whole life bringing all things in subjection to His will as it is written. Like the pearl of great price. One gives all to acquire it. Like the proverb. . “Buy the truth of the gospel” don’t sell it like Esau for a cup of goat soup seeing not value in the unseen things of God.

Ten or tenth is a word used as a metaphor in parables to represent the whole or a unknown . A tenth given in either the old or the New Testament is equal to the whole or 100%. of two working as one

Two mites or parts of the whole (farthing) Two mites are used to represent a tenth and the farthing the whole 100%. The woman gave her all she had, even all her living

In that way God does not desire we give partial but the whole. Again 10 = 100% When yoked with Christ in that way he is accredited with 90% as he works in us to both will and empower us with faith. . to finish the work.

The promise he will finish it to the end (Philippians 1:6). The work he has begun in us is coupled with the power revealed in Philippians 2:12-13.

The women used to represent the church gave her all equal to the number word tenth without murmuring. In that way you could say the church represented by two is of “little faith” or the power to believe Christ. Five times he uses the term “little faith” to represent 1/10 .He is the storeroom of faith (100%).He must increase as we decrease

Philippians 1: 6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Philippians 2: 13-14 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

The woman in Mark gave her all even all her living unlike Jonah he gave the tithe reluctantly .Jonah desired to die he knew from experence that God does all the work. using shadows of the coming eternal, to represent comfort .The work of tithe giving us a little honey

Jonah4: 3-7 Therefore now, O Lord, take, I beseech thee, my life from me; for it is better for me to die than to live. Then said the Lord, Doest thou well to be angry? So Jonah went out of the city, and sat on the east side of the city, and there made him a booth, and sat under it in the shadow, till he might see what would become of the city. And the Lord God prepared a gourd, and made it to come up over Jonah, that it might be a shadow over his head, to deliver him from his grief. So Jonah was exceeding glad of the gourd. But God prepared a worm when the morning rose the next day, and it smote the gourd that it withered.

I know its speculating but its like I could imagne Jesus saying what he said in Luke to Jonah.

Luke 12:28 If then God so clothe the grass, which is to day in the field, and to morrow is cast into the oven; how much more will he clothe you, O ye of little faith?

Un believers are recokned of no faith no tithe in that way .

 

[bobinfaith]

Thanks for the reply.

I would offer. The tithe represents the work of Christ that he works in us with us.. . .not of us

I would think it’s not necessarily all of the worldly goods or animals like in the Old Testament but ones whole life bringing all things in subjection to His will as it is written. Like the pearl of great price. One gives all to acquire it. Like the proverb. . “Buy the truth of the gospel” don’t sell it like Esau for a cup of goat soup seeing not value in the unseen things of God.

Ten or tenth is a word used as a metaphor in parables to represent the whole or a unknown . A tenth given in either the old or the New Testament is equal to the whole or 100%. of two working as one

Two mites or parts of the whole (farthing) Two mites are used to represent a tenth and the farthing the whole 100%. The woman gave her all she had, even all her living

In that way God does not desire we give partial but the whole. Again 10 = 100% When yoked with Christ in that way he is accredited with 90% as he works in us to both will and empower us with faith. . to finish the work.

The promise he will finish it to the end (Philippians 1:6). The work he has begun in us is coupled with the power revealed in Philippians 2:12-13.

The women used to represent the church gave her all equal to the number word tenth without murmuring. In that way you could say the church represented by two is of “little faith” or the power to believe Christ. Five times he uses the term “little faith” to represent 1/10 .He is the storeroom of faith (100%).He must increase as we decrease

Philippians 1: 6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

Philippians 2: 13-14 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Do all things without murmurings and disputings:

The woman in Mark gave her all even all her living unlike Jonah he gave the tithe reluctantly .Jonah desired to die he knew from experence that God does all the work. using shadows of the coming eternal, to represent comfort .The work of tithe giving us a little honey

Jonah4: 3-7 Therefore now, O Lord, take, I beseech thee, my life from me; for it is better for me to die than to live. Then said the Lord, Doest thou well to be angry? So Jonah went out of the city, and sat on the east side of the city, and there made him a booth, and sat under it in the shadow, till he might see what would become of the city. And the Lord God prepared a gourd, and made it to come up over Jonah, that it might be a shadow over his head, to deliver him from his grief. So Jonah was exceeding glad of the gourd. But God prepared a worm when the morning rose the next day, and it smote the gourd that it withered.

I know its speculating but its like I could imagne Jesus saying what he said in Luke to Jonah.

Luke 12:28 If then God so clothe the grass, which is to day in the field, and to morrow is cast into the oven; how much more will he clothe you, O ye of little faith?

Un believers are recokned of no faith no tithe in that way .

Good morning, Garee;

Thank you for offering to share. That's all I wanted to ask of you. I'll reread your post.