The Sin Nature

[Major]

The sin nature is that aspect in man that makes him rebellious against God. When we speak of the sin nature, I am referring to the fact that we have a natural inclination to sin; given the choice to do God’s will or our own, we will naturally choose to do our own thing.

Proof of the sin nature abounds. No one has to teach a child to lie or be selfish; rather, we go to great lengths to teach children to tell the truth and put others first. Sinful behavior comes naturally. The news is filled with tragic examples of mankind acting badly every day! Wherever people are, there is trouble.

Charles Spurgeon said.........
“As the salt flavors every drop in the Atlantic, so does sin affect every atom of our nature. It is so sadly there, so abundantly there, that if you cannot detect it, you are deceived.”

The Bible explains the reason for the trouble. Humanity is sinful, not just in theory or in practice but by nature. Sin is part of the very fiber of our being. The Bible speaks of “sinful flesh” in Romans 8:3. It’s our “earthly nature” that produces the list of sins in Col. 3:5. And Romans 6:6 speaks of “the body ruled by sin.” The flesh-and-blood existence we lead on this earth is shaped by our sinful, corrupt nature.

What are your thoughts???

 

[Dave F.]

It starts with our free will, instead of saying thy will be done (as we should) we say MY will be done. We are by nature selfish and we grow that into so many other sins.

 

[Major]

It starts with our free will, instead of saying thy will be done (as we should) we say MY will be done. We are by nature selfish and we grow that into so many other sins.

Correct.
Dogs bark because they are dogs by nature.
Birds fly because they are birds by nature.
Cats meow because they are cats by nature.
Rattlesnakes bite because they are by nature rettelsnakes.
We sin because by nature we are sinners.

 

[Via dolarossa]

Well, when I think of selfishness, I automatically think of the child that takes all the cookies for himself, leaving none for others.

But I think it really is deeper than just greed. Its about being unwilling to see another's reality I guess..

 

[2404]

I'm sure we have no clue as what it means to be 'holy'. For our best righteousness is as filthy rags. Consider Isaiah, probably a good/holy a man as can be expected - was like a dead man in the presents of the Lord.

 

[Major]

I'm sure we have no clue as what it means to be 'holy'. For our best righteousness is as filthy rags. Consider Isaiah, probably a good/holy a man as can be expected - was like a dead man in the presents of the Lord.

Yes sir. He fell as if dead!

 

[LearningToLetGo]

What are your thoughts???

To use modern language, sin is bound up in our DNA.

Unlike, say, a spider that has no choice but to spin a web, we have choice. We can choose to accept our sin (indeed revel in it) or to repent of it. To some extent we can choose to not engage in sin but we cannot eliminate all sin anymore than we can choose to not have two arms and two legs.

 

[Major]

To use modern language, sin is bound up in our DNA.

Unlike, say, a spider that has no choice but to spin a web, we have choice. We can choose to accept our sin (indeed revel in it) or to repent of it. To some extent we can choose to not engage in sin but we cannot eliminate all sin anymore than we can choose to not have two arms and two legs.

Good point!

 

[BibleLover]

The sin nature is that aspect in man that makes him rebellious against God. When we speak of the sin nature, I am referring to the fact that we have a natural inclination to sin; given the choice to do God’s will or our own, we will naturally choose to do our own thing.

Proof of the sin nature abounds. No one has to teach a child to lie or be selfish; rather, we go to great lengths to teach children to tell the truth and put others first. Sinful behavior comes naturally. The news is filled with tragic examples of mankind acting badly every day! Wherever people are, there is trouble.

Charles Spurgeon said.........
“As the salt flavors every drop in the Atlantic, so does sin affect every atom of our nature. It is so sadly there, so abundantly there, that if you cannot detect it, you are deceived.”

The Bible explains the reason for the trouble. Humanity is sinful, not just in theory or in practice but by nature. Sin is part of the very fiber of our being. The Bible speaks of “sinful flesh” in Romans 8:3. It’s our “earthly nature” that produces the list of sins in Col. 3:5. And Romans 6:6 speaks of “the body ruled by sin.” The flesh-and-blood existence we lead on this earth is shaped by our sinful, corrupt nature.

What are your thoughts???

The sin nature is the subject of much of the Book of Romans. In that book, we learn the extent of that nature and the antidote for its poison. As long as we dwell on this earth, we will struggle with that nature, but because of the sanctification process, the severity of that struggle lessens as our regeneration progresses. Our focus should not be upon our sin nature but upon the Spirit who leads us through our regeneration. The difference between reformation and regeneration is that reformation is human centered and focused while regeneration is God centered and focused.

 

[Major]

The sin nature is the subject of much of the Book of Romans. In that book, we learn the extent of that nature and the antidote for its poison. As long as we dwell on this earth, we will struggle with that nature, but because of the sanctification process, the severity of that struggle lessens as our regeneration progresses. Our focus should not be upon our sin nature but upon the Spirit who leads us through our regeneration. The difference between reformation and regeneration is that reformation is human centered and focused while regeneration is God centered and focused.

And in Romans 7:15 -17, Paul asks the question of the ages...............Why do I do what I know I should not do??????
"For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

 

[Papa Smurf]

As long as we dwell on this earth, we will struggle with that nature, but because of the sanctification process, the severity of that struggle lessens as our regeneration progresses. Our focus should not be upon our sin nature but upon the Spirit who leads us through our regeneration. The difference between reformation and regeneration is that reformation is human centered and focused while regeneration is God centered and focused.

Hello BibleLover, I'm intrigued, because I've never heard of "regeneration" as something other than being "made alive" spiritually in Christ. Also, that regeneration or the quickening to spiritual life is a one-time event (like justification is) .. e.g. Ezekiel 36:26-27; John 3:3; Ephesians 2:4-5, not an ongoing process (like sanctification is .. e.g. Philippians 1:6, 2:12-13 .. also cf Ephesians 4:22-24), or so I have been taught and understand.

I've also understood "regeneration/quickening" to be something that God must do 'for' us, not something that He does 'with' us, IOW, that it is not something that He has to "lead us through".

So, if you would, please elaborate a bit about this (also, it might help for you to define the terms "regeneration" and "reformation" for us as you understand them in regard to this topic ).

Thank you

God bless you!!

--Papa Smurf

 

[BibleLover]

Hello BibleLover, I'm intrigued, because I've never heard of "regeneration" as something other than being "made alive" spiritually in Christ. IOW, that the quickening to spiritual life is a one-time event (like justification is) .. e.g. Ezekiel 36:26-27; John 3:3; Ephesians 2:4-5, not an ongoing process (like sanctification is .. e.g. Philippians 1:6, 2:12-13 .. also cf Ephesians 4:22-24), or so I have been taught and understand.

I've also understood "regeneration/quickening" to be something God does 'for' us, not something that He does 'with' us/not something that He has to "lead us through".

So, if you would, please elaborate a bit about this (also, it might help for you to define the terms "regeneration" and "reformation" for us as you understand them in regard to this topic ).

Thank you

God bless you!!

--Papa Smurf

Hi Papa,
I see Regeneration as the change in the very spiritual structure of our being. Romans 12:2 calls on us to allow God to renew (renovate) our minds so that we no longer conform to the mold of the world. Our very nature changes so that our desires and God's desires are in harmony. To generate something is to bring something into being (e.g., to generate, or make, electricity). Thus to regenerate means to remake something, in our case we are remade from sinful flesh to sanctified spirit--our most basic nature is remade. The regeneration process is synonymous with the sanctification process. The further we go in the process, the less influence is exerted upon us by the sin nature.

Reformation is the attempt to reform our actions and thoughts by human means. Reform never changes a person's nature, just the actions. It's like what AA calls a dry drunk.

God bless ya, Papa,

Biblelover

 

[Papa Smurf]

The sin nature is that aspect in man that makes him rebellious against God. When we speak of the sin nature, I am referring to the fact that we have a natural inclination to sin; given the choice to do God’s will or our own, we will naturally choose to do our own thing.

Proof of the sin nature abounds. No one has to teach a child to lie or be selfish; rather, we go to great lengths to teach children to tell the truth and put others first. Sinful behavior comes naturally. The news is filled with tragic examples of mankind acting badly every day! Wherever people are, there is trouble.

Charles Spurgeon said.........
“As the salt flavors every drop in the Atlantic, so does sin affect every atom of our nature. It is so sadly there, so abundantly there, that if you cannot detect it, you are deceived.”

The Bible explains the reason for the trouble. Humanity is sinful, not just in theory or in practice but by nature. Sin is part of the very fiber of our being. The Bible speaks of “sinful flesh” in Romans 8:3. It’s our “earthly nature” that produces the list of sins in Col. 3:5. And Romans 6:6 speaks of “the body ruled by sin.” The flesh-and-blood existence we lead on this earth is shaped by our sinful, corrupt nature.

What are your thoughts???

Hello Major, that mankind is born with a sinful/fallen nature is both Scriptural and obvious to us all (as you just mentioned above). As far as the reason for why we are all this way, why "nobody's perfect" (as the saying goes), the doctrine of Original Sin points us to our progenitors' sin in the Garden of God as the proximate cause for our fallen nature and eventual demise.

The doctrine of Original Sin also teaches us that, not only are we born in sin/born with a sin nature (and that we will die because we are), but that we incur "guilt" from our first parents' sin too (because Adam is the federal head/representative of our entire race). My question is, what do you think that fact means for us (in a practical sense, that is) that we are considered to be "guilty" before God from birth? (just FYI, I am principally interested in this in regard to those who die as babies, young children, and/or unborn children, but also, what it means for those of us who live on to maturity as well)

Thanks

God bless you!!

--Papa Smurf
p.s. - here are a couple more passages that may prove to be useful here.

Romans 2​

12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. ​

13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. ​

14 Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, ​

15 since they show that the requirements of the law are ~written on their hearts~, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them. ​

16 This will take place on the day when God will judge men’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.​

​

Ephesians 2​

1 You were dead in your trespasses and sins,​

2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.​

3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature, children of wrath, even as the rest.​

4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,​

5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved).​

​

 

[crossnote]

Our sin nature was sinful enough to the point of sending Christ Jesus to His death in order to redeem us. (there was no other way)

1 Peter 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
1 Peter 1:19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

 

[Papa Smurf]

Hello again BibleLover

Hi Papa,
I see Regeneration as the change in the very spiritual structure of our being.

I do as well (just FYI). We were dead (spiritually) and God makes us alive (spiritually) in Christ .. e.g. Ezekiel 36:26-27; Ephesians 2:1-5.

Romans 12:2 calls on us to allow God to renew (renovate) our minds so that we no longer conform to the mold of the world.

I agree with this as well .. e.g. John 17:17.

Our very nature changes so that our desires and God's desires are in harmony. To generate something is to bring something into being (e.g., to generate, or make, electricity).

Agreed

Thus to regenerate means to remake something, in our case we are remade from sinful flesh to sanctified spirit--our most basic nature is remade. The regeneration process is synonymous with the sanctification process. The further we go in the process, the less influence is exerted upon us by the sin nature.

I agree with your last statement concerning sanctification, but I will need to consider regeneration in the way that you do (as something that reaches to/includes sanctification, as well as something that is "progressive" in nature, as sanctification always is) and get back to you.

I've always understood "regeneration", "quickening" and/or being "born again" as being one and the same, as being a one-time event that God alone can perform for us/in us, not as something that is ongoing in our lives from justification to Glory (because w/o God first causing us to be regenerated / quickened / born again, we cannot come to saving faith in Him and be justified & saved by Him, much less come alongside of Him and work with Him to grow up in Christlikeness/be sanctified as a believer).

It seems to me that we are said to be re-generated because we are gaining something back (spiritual life) that we never actually possessed, personally, because it was lost in Adam long before we were born or even conceived (please bear with me as I definitely need to spend more time contemplating this because, to be honest, I have never tried to think all the way through some of this).

Finally, it sounds to me like we define some of the same terms differently (which is ok, as long as we both understand what the other one means).

Thanks (and thank you ahead of time for your patience with me as I consider all of this further)

Blessings to you in Christ!!

--Papa Smurf

 

[Major]

Hello Major, that mankind is born with a sinful/fallen nature is both Scriptural and obvious to us all (as you just mentioned above). As far as the reason for why we are all this way, why "nobody's perfect" (as the saying goes), the doctrine of Original Sin points us to our progenitors' sin in the Garden of God as the proximate cause for our fallen nature and eventual demise.

The doctrine of Original Sin also teaches us that, not only are we born in sin/born with a sin nature (and that we will die because we are), but that we incur "guilt" from our first parents' sin too (because Adam is the federal head/representative of our entire race). My question is, what do you think that fact means for us (in a practical sense, that is) that we are considered to be "guilty" before God from birth? (just FYI, I am principally interested in this in regard to those who die as babies, young children, and/or unborn children, but also, what it means for those of us who live on to maturity as well)

Thanks

God bless you!!

--Papa Smurf
p.s. - here are a couple more passages that may prove to be useful here.

Romans 2​

12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. ​

13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. ​

14 Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, ​

15 since they show that the requirements of the law are ~written on their hearts~, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them. ​

16 This will take place on the day when God will judge men’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.​

​

Ephesians 2​

1 You were dead in your trespasses and sins,​

2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.​

3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature, children of wrath, even as the rest.​

4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,​

5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved).​

​

You asked...........
" are considered to be "guilty" before God from birth? "

YES!

But several Bible passages indicate that children (even before they are born) have a guilty standing before God and a sinful nature so that they not only have a tendency to sin, but God views them as sinners (Psalm 51:5; 58:3; Ephesians 2:3).

Paul spent the first three chapters of the book of Romans declaring mankind’s guilt before God. He said the Jew is guilty. The Gentile is guilty. The religious person is guilty. The pagan is guilty. Then he closed in Romans 3:9-10 with these words:......
“What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin; as it is written, ‘There is none righteous, not even one.’”

Then verse 23 says.....
“For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.”

No one is righteous. No one is in a right standing before God. How can that be true? The answer to how we all became estranged from God is found in Romans 5:12. Paul said,.......
“Through one man [Adam] sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned.”

When Adam sinned, his sin virus was passed on to every man, woman, boy, and girl who has ever lived. And the proof that you and I inherited that sin virus is demonstrated in the fact that we all die physically.

As for babies...........If a child is too young to know right from wrong and possesses no capacity for reasoning about God, then is that child exempted from judgment? IMHO.............YES!

Some will argue that Predestination says that God know who will and who will not accept Christ so that means some babies will go to hell. I do not agree with that thought. Personally, I believe God will NOT hold babies responsible for not responding to the gospel, when they are incapable of understanding the message? I believe that granting saving grace to babies and young children, on the basis of the sufficiency of Christ’s atonement, is consistent with God’s love and mercy.

The God I know and love just would not do such a thing.

Thank you for asking!!!

 

[BibleLover]

It sounds to me like we define some of the same terms differently (which is ok, as long as we both understand what the other one means).

That's what's happening. We're both in agreement on the concepts but the labels we are assigning to them are different. I'm aware that certain theological concepts have specific theological terms assigned to them. Regeneration is one of them. In the theological context, it means a specific, one-time event that makes a person go from spiritually dead to spiritually alive. My use of the term is applied in a broader, practical sense to describe the process of rebuilding the Christian from the inside out to bring about the end result of Christ likeness in one's entire being and nature. I hope this helps.

God bless you and yours, Papa,
Biblelover.

 

[Major]

That's what's happening. We're both in agreement on the concepts but the labels we are assigning to them are different. I'm aware that certain theological concepts have specific theological terms assigned to them. Regeneration is one of them. In the theological context, it means a specific, one-time event that makes a person go from spiritually dead to spiritually alive. My use of the term is applied in a broader, practical sense to describe the process of rebuilding the Christian from the inside out to bring about the end result of Christ likeness in one's entire being and nature. I hope this helps.

God bless you and yours, Papa,
Biblelover.

I agree as we are saved from the INSIDE out!

 

[Papa Smurf]

You asked...........
" are considered to be "guilty" before God from birth? "

YES!

But several Bible passages indicate that children (even before they are born) have a guilty standing before God and a sinful nature so that they not only have a tendency to sin, but God views them as sinners (Psalm 51:5; 58:3; Ephesians 2:3).

Paul spent the first three chapters of the book of Romans declaring mankind’s guilt before God. He said the Jew is guilty. The Gentile is guilty. The religious person is guilty. The pagan is guilty. Then he closed in Romans 3:9-10 with these words:......
“What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin; as it is written, ‘There is none righteous, not even one.’”

Then verse 23 says.....
“For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.”

No one is righteous. No one is in a right standing before God. How can that be true? The answer to how we all became estranged from God is found in Romans 5:12. Paul said,.......
“Through one man [Adam] sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned.”

When Adam sinned, his sin virus was passed on to every man, woman, boy, and girl who has ever lived. And the proof that you and I inherited that sin virus is demonstrated in the fact that we all die physically.

As for babies...........If a child is too young to know right from wrong and possesses no capacity for reasoning about God, then is that child exempted from judgment? IMHO.............YES!

Some will argue that Predestination says that God know who will and who will not accept Christ so that means some babies will go to hell. I do not agree with that thought. Personally, I believe God will NOT hold babies responsible for not responding to the gospel, when they are incapable of understanding the message? I believe that granting saving grace to babies and young children, on the basis of the sufficiency of Christ’s atonement, is consistent with God’s love and mercy.

The God I know and love just would not do such a thing.

Thank you for asking!!!

Hello again Major, starting quickly at the bottom of your reply, I agree with you concerning the fate of those who die as young children, infants, or unborn babies, and I believe the Bible does as well .. e.g. Romans 2:12-16. I believe that God will judge and condemn unbelievers on the basis of what they know and understand of the law/of right and wrong, and what they do with that knowledge and understanding, ~not~ on the basis of the fallen nature that they are born with.

So, the question that I am still confused about remains. In what way(s) does ~inherited~ guilt from Adam affect the unbeliever if the basis for God's judgment/condemnation of them is ~actual~ guilt from the sins that they have committed personally?

Thank you

God bless you!!

--Papa Smurf

 

[Major]

Hello again Major, starting quickly at the bottom of your reply, I agree with you concerning the fate of those who die as young children, infants, or unborn babies, and I believe the Bible does as well .. e.g. Romans 2:12-16. I believe that God will judge and condemn unbelievers on the basis of what they know and understand of the law/of right and wrong, and what they do with that knowledge and understanding, ~not~ on the basis of the fallen nature that they are born with.

So, the question that I am still confused about remains. In what way(s) does ~inherited~ guilt from Adam affect the unbeliever if the basis for God's judgment/condemnation of them is ~actual~ guilt from the sins that they have committed personally?

Thank you

God bless you!!

--Papa Smurf

Papa.....the guilt of Adam, to us today comes from the fact that he was humanity’s federal (covenantal) head.

The original covenant God made with Adam in the garden carried with it both stipulations (the command not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil) and sanctions (the warning of death in the case of disobedience). Adam’s decision to reject the word of God brought both himself and his posterity into a state of guilt before God. As the covenantal head of all humanity, Adam’s guilt is imputed, or credited, to his posterity. Human sin resulted in divine judgment and placed humanity in need of divine grace.