Struggling With Faith (no Catholics)

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by Mike Flanaganmenstein, Jun 27, 2014.


Is it ever ok to kill infants?

  1. Yes as long as the leader of that country is enslaving others

    1 vote(s)
  2. No killing infants is wrong and can never be justified

    7 vote(s)
  3. Maybe

    1 vote(s)
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  1. Hello everybody it is me Mike. I know many of my friends may be upset with me for not posting on here in so long but I have hit a few road bumps in my faith. Recently I came across a slightly disturbing passage in The Bible and I was wondering if someone could help me interpret it.

    Exodus 11:4-6 KJV: states that God actually killed innocent newborn children :cry: How can this be justified? I know Pharaoh enslaved the Jews and all but why take it out on innocent infants? I find it very difficult to worship someone who kills babies as I always associated the killing of infants with satanism.
  2. Killing infants is a form of satanism, which is also why the Bible vehemently condemns the sacrifice of children to Moloch.

    In this particular passage I think it is important to realize a few things, that is that (1) God sent one of His Angels to take the lives, (2) This action was taken after numerous warnings to Pharaoh and was an absolute last resort.

    In any case, I would strongly discourage you from attempting to lean on your own understanding with any passage in the scripture. We don't always know why God works the way that He does but we do know that He is perfectly just, and infinitely loving and merciful.

    It could be the case, however, that all the infants taken that night were brought into Heaven and saved from the oppression of Pharaoh. We know, of course, that Pharaoh himself murdered Jewish infants.

    In any case, I am not a seminarian, but most pastors are and can provide spiritual counsel as to how historically the Christian faithful have addressed this question.

    On a concluding note, it is possible also to look, not at the details of a story, but to look at what is the principle being taught. Many people do this with Genesis, and I believe it is a perfectly valid course of action. The point of this story is that, to work against the Will of God will only bring death and destruction.
  3. #3 aha, Jun 28, 2014
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2014
    A few road bumps…..
    Seems to me one of such is “road bumps” of a verse you are asking above.
    There will be more, hundreds of more such “road bumps!

    If one is riding a car (learned doctrines) …. and is experiencing a hard time driving because of some road bumps (verses )
    One may examine the road bumps (verses) or the car itself (learned doctrines).

    The verse you asking above:
    Many learned drivers here (elders) will not see them as bumps (i.e: questionable verse)….

    And yet, you seem to see that verse as bump!

    One most logical conclusion I got is: you need to examine your car (learned doctrines)…..

    Why I got that impression above that you need to examine your car….

    Very obvious…… look at the title of your OP…

    Your car have a problem with Catholics…

    Suggest study Paul and how he deals in person with Pharisees and the Sanhedrin.
  4. God is just, and as soon as you realize that, and that God cannot sin, then you must examine your own sensibilities about Him, and find them wanting, and then make an adjustment.
  5. No Catholics? They aren't allowed to post or something?

    God lots of people died in the Old Testament for being born in a different area and worshipping other gods. Why is this part bothering you so much?
  6. Seeing that faith comes only by hearing the Word of God, if we therefore lack faith, then we must more abundantly hear God's Word. If we hated sin as much as God does, we then would know how greatly evil sin is, how that it provokes the God of rich mercy to such severity. But by the Word of God we which believe shall be in agreement with His Word, that we do not look at the things which are seen, because they are only temporal, but we look at the things which are not seen, which are eternal: and by this perspective we shall know concerning infants that "of such is the kingdom of God" even as Christ tells us so, and this is that which is eternal, not temporal. Either we will trust God, or we will not; but we can never be of a double-mind, for then we are unstable in all our ways; neither can we put our hand to the plow, and look back, for then we shall not be fit for the kingdom of God. We must needs put our trust into the hands and power of God, and deny our own will, and no longer put any trust whatsoever into temporal things.
    God is Love and Euphemia say Amen and like this.
  7. Lets look at all the facts before we judge God as evil and :cry:.

    1. God does not ''kill'' anyone. Everyone has eternal life. All infants go to heaven Matt 19:14.
    2. Only infants of unGodly people who were warned plenty, were killed with the unGodly parents. God relents from sending calamity Jonah 4:2
    3. God has never 'tortured' anyone! Quick / ish death only.
    4. God is very sad when He needs to kill the children and the animals with unGodly adults Jonah 4:11.
    5. God has always eliminated the 'extremely' evil / immoral for the righteous. This hints at kids having little to no hope when growing up with 'extremely unGodly' parents / seeking vengeance against the Jews Matt 24:22.

    Conclusion: If God sent babies to hell, you would have a reason to be upset. But if He did, He would be evil and dumb. We should know well that He is neither! Isn't that what the devil / world wants us to believe?
  8. After reading all of these posts I must admit I am thoroughly horrified! Every person on this post defended the killing of infants! In other words you are defending Satanism! God (in Jesus son form) says the we must never kill and to turn the other cheek even if there are evil babies out there. I suggest everyone here take a long hard look in the mirror and ask themselves if they are on the side of God or the devil. Please remember WWJD, I don't think Jesus would ever kill infants for any reason! Peace and love unto ye O' lost sheep.
  9. God is the one who gives life, He has the right to take it away. Even if he only gives life for 1 day, praise God for the 1 day that He allowed that person to live. And also how blessed is the person who only had to live here for 1 day, and got to go straight to heaven.
    Ravindran and Huntingteckel say Amen and like this.
  10. Nope! Even if God sent a baby to hell He would not be evil and dumb! He would still be Holy and Just. The bible says God hated Esau while he was still in the womb. Does that make God evil? Nope!
  11. That's not true.

    Are you saying that God is evil in commanding the death of the entire pagan population of the Amalekites?
  12. Defending Satanism? Wait, what?

    "Please remember WWJD"

    He would do the will of the Father, whatever the will of the Father may be.
  13. Mal 1:2-3 was written 1000's of years after the birth of Esau. God does not hate any baby
    God is Love and Where is the Messiah say Amen and like this.
  14. Maybe Catholics would answer better?
  15. KingJ, thanks for the response. I didn't know Mal was written 1000's of years after the birth of Esau. Thanks for the informative post. However, Romans 9 says "Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand not by works but by him who calls—she was told, “The older will serve the younger.”Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.

    So I humbly believe, everything is predestined by God.

    "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart" - bible verse
  16. The Jews were indeed His chosen people. He killed them all in the desert. Clearly being chosen is simply 'selected' and not 'chosen' as in the Calvinist sense.
  17. Can you explain the use of "hate" in this verse?

    Luke 14:26 (NKJV)
    “If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.
  18. You want me to teach you? :)
    Huntingteckel likes this.
  19. I am asking if you can explain it.
  20. I can. Would you like me to teach you? :)
    Huntingteckel likes this.
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