Something I was wondering

Discussion in 'General Discussions' started by autumn oddity, Sep 5, 2016.

  1. I was wondering... Why wasn't Peter cursed like Judas-- God's word said if you deny him he will deny you...

    Peter did 3 times, I know the Lord said He prayed for him does that mean those who do deny Christ, god didnt pray for them?

    I'm trying to make sense of this..... So please bear with me... And if this doesn't make sense just ask me what I mean if u get tripped up and I will explain it :)
  2. Hi Autumn,
    Yes Peter denied Jesus 3 times.
    Yes Jesus told Peter this would happen.

    Notice When Jesus was sitting there with the disciples that He asked Peter 3 times do you love me.

    One for each denial.
    It is as two things
    1. Repentance
    2. dabar: speech, word
    Original Word: דָּבָר
    Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
    Transliteration: dabar
    Phonetic Spelling: (daw-baw')
    Short Definition: word

    #1 you already know.
    #2 is dealing with what James is talking about in James 3:6
    And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.

    Autumn see the bold word course. The cross reference uses the word Wheel. So it sets on fire the wheel of nature and it is set on fire of hell.

    Words. Words. Our Words.
    The power of life and death are in the tongue.
    Words words oh our words.

    We are the only one who can stop this wheel of nature (words) from coming to pass or fulfilling it's course.

    This is where Dabur plays in.
    We must render those wrong words powerless and then loose power filled God words over it.

    Jesus knew He would have to keep His word.....your question about denying God but He loved Peter so much that He had to do something so He began teaching them about Dabar.

    Scripture tells us in Hebrew 3:1
    Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

    The word profession means or is the same as Confession. Again Words.
    When we speak God's Word then God will do what we say for we are speaking what He says.

    Too much for one post
    Judas could have repented if he would have hung on a little longer. Jesus on the cross or His shed blood would have saved him to.

    We deny God in many ways with our words and actions. Thank God for Grace.
    You can deny Jesus and go to your death bed with out Jesus and the Father will deny you.

    Cturtle likes this.
  3. I'm just wondering...god knew Judas would do what he was gonna do.. But why didn't he pull him aside and do what he did for Peter for judas
  4. Free will plays in.
    Choices made plays in.

    Look at it this way.
    Judas walked a not so upright type of life. He was a thief and even sold from Jesus and the disciples.
    However he had Jesus right there with him. Judas had God's words spoken so close he could feel the mastors breath.

    Choices Judas made brought results.
    Peter had a repentative heart and his choices brought results.

    We must choose wisely at all times.
    Cturtle likes this.
  5. Also even jesus said, itd be better if he wasn't born
  6. Judas wasn't a believer. He never called Jesus Lord or God or Master, he always called Jesus, Rabbi (teacher). Peter was a believer who repented of his sin. Judas too repented, but Judas executed his own punishment, whereas Peter surrendered to Jesus for forgiveness. One was by works (Judas) which became death, and the other by faith (Peter) which became life.
    Cturtle likes this.
  7. 'While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Thy Name:
    those that thou gavest me I have kept,
    and none of them is lost,
    but the son of perdition;
    that the scripture might be fulfilled.'

    (John 17:12)

    'Let no man deceive you by any means:
    for that day shall not come,
    except there come a falling away first,
    and that man of sin be revealed,
    the son of perdition;
    ... '
    (2 Thess 2:3)

    Hi autumn oddity,

    You have received some good replies to your OP, haven't you? :)

    My thought went to the fact that Judas is spoken of as, 'the son of perdition', as is the Antichrist, ('the man of sin') in 2 Thess. 2:3 (above).

    * Perdition is defined as ' ruin ' or 'loss '.

    God in His foreknowledge knew Peter and Judas, He knew what they would do, and the outcome. Yet He, as the Son of God, chose them. He chose them for a purpose - 'that the scripture might be fulfilled'. (or, 'filled-full')

    Each in his own way gave testimony to the person and work of the Lord Jesus Christ, whether positively or negatively, for they fulfilled the Scripture, which testified of Him.

    Praise God!


    crownoflife and Cturtle say Amen and like this.
  8. Hello again, autumn oddity,

    In Judas' case, he also fulfilled what was prophesied concerning him, as we can see in Acts 1:20, which is a composite quotation from
    Psalm 69:25 (which portrays Israel's redemption. Their Redeemer waits for His deliverance) and
    Psalm 109:8.(which expresses the true David's humiliation, deliverance, and triumph)

    * The Holy Spirit has combined these two Psalms to use in relation to Judas and his fate.

    In Christ Jesus
  9. Okay but if God foreknew Judas would be the son of ruin and loss...and even said it was better for him.not to be born...why did he let him be born knowing what he'd do?... There were enough Pharisees to take on Judas' role.
  10. It sucks He chose Judas for that makes it seem like...idk...he didn't care much about we all have scripts written out for us and we can do is play along... Idk I guess this is just God's many other things.
  11. God is sovereign but He is also impartial. We have to grasp this like Peter did in Acts 10:34. God's goodness is an equal absolute to His greatness. Human minds battle grasping this. This is why I believe Acts 10:34 was included in scripture. God wants us to grasp it. Just as He wants us to grasp He is exceedingly good and loving in Eph 3:18.

    God uses the evil if He needs to. He does not make them go evil. Peter denied Jesus. Judas betrayed Jesus. Big difference imho. Peter repented. Judas showed remorse but sadly no evidence of repenting. I would say it is likely as he was trying to return the gold he had received. I doubt anyone will be surprised to find Judas in heaven. We will all say, oh ok, nice, so he did repent.
    autumn oddity likes this.
  12. "that the scripture might be fulfilled'. autumn oddity.

    Cturtle likes this.
  13. Hi autumn oddity,

    You make it sound as though God set Judas up. No! God saw in advance what would happen, and it did. He did not set Judas up to fall. Knowing it would happen he recorded it in the prophetic writings, as He did in advance of the events in our Lord's life, which would serve as evidential scriptures when it actually came to pass.

    Judas behaved as Judas would have done in any situation, he would lie, he would be untrustworthy and he would betray.
    Judas is without excuse, and God is just.

    In Christ Jesus
    Cturtle likes this.
  14. I don't believe Judas repented. He had worldly sorrow, not godly sorrow which leads to repentance. There is a huge difference between crying over sin and repenting of (turning away from) sin.
    Fish Catcher Jim likes this.
  15. I don't know if I fully agree. If someone cries before the Lord it must be genuine. Everyone knows we can't fake it with God. True tears = true remorse = part of Psalm 51:17. Bad people don't break down before God.
  16. Still, It seems like God put more effort into Peter than Judas. He prayed for him and for every 3 times he denied Jesus, Jesus countered it so he'd be saved. If he woul have done the same for Judas than I can say alright he was truly given a chance and he messed it up...i mean he still messed it up...but Jesus did put more effort into Peter.
  17. Idk, this is just one of those things that's hard to accept, for me anyway. Because if Judas ever wanted to change..He really couldn't because prophecy was already set in motion. Idk its just hard to think about.
    Complete likes this.
  18. I'll take your word for it because its just confusing otherwise.
  19. It would be nice if he did make it...but idk..however you are right...god is sovereign and I try not to fight with it so much.
  20. Hi autumn oddity,

    That is simply not the case. You know God as your heavenly Father, through faith in the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ, His Beloved Son. You must know that God would not place an individual in that position.

    No! Prophecy is the result of foreknowledge, God's foreknowledge. What He knows is sure, and the course of events are sure. If Judas had a heart desiring to turn and repent, that would have been foreseen and prophecy would have reflected that, and the outcome would have been quite different.

    The Lord Jesus Christ, time and again, gave Judas the opportunity to repent and change his ways. If you read the account of the interchange of conversation and actions which took place between our Lord and Judas you will see that. - No less time and attention was given to Judas, than to Peter.

    God is just and the justifier of all who come to Him through the Lord Jesus Christ His Son.
    Please trust Him AO.
    In Christ Jesus
    Cturtle and Fish Catcher Jim say Amen and like this.

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