RIP: Church Music

S

synthplayer

I grew up in the church - I'm a PK. My mother played the piano, and my father led the congregational singing. Often, my father would encourage the congregants to think deeply about the lyrics of the songs we were singing. That encouragement made me really appreciate the Holy Spirit inspired verses of those great songs - many of which had verses taken straight from the Bible. Our hymnal even indicated from where in the Bible the lyrics were drawn. At the time, I didn't even realize how wonderful it was to be singing the hymns with a whole congregation of people singing, too! Those hymns were "the music of God's church." And, they had been for many decades - even centuries.

A friend loaned me a DVD about George Wallace, and the title role was played by Gary Sinese. Toward the end of the movie, Wallace had come to realize he had compromised his principles - one by one - until he was sick of himself. He was seated in the back seat of his car and the driver stopped for a red light. Wallace rolled down his window and he could hear the music from a Sunday night church service. As he listened to the congregation sing, "Beneath The Cross Of Jesus," his eyes filled with tears. He instructed the driver to pull over and he entered the church. They sang:

Beneath the cross of Jesus I fain would take my stand,
The shadow of a mighty rock Within a weary land;
A home within the wilderness; A rest upon the way,
From the burning of the noon-time heat
And the burden of the day.

Wallace was convicted and renewed his commitment to God right then and there.

But, try to imagine the scene: He rolled down his window and overheard a Sunday night song service and the congregation was singing (together - all of them) a hymn that was written in mid 19th century that, at that time, was known to ALL protestant Christians of all denominations.

One of my very favorite hymns is entitled, "Great Is Thy Faithfulness."

Great is Thy faithfulness, Oh God my Father;
There is no shadow of turning with Thee.
Thou changest not; Thy compassions, they fail not;
As Thou hast been Thou forever wilt be.

Summer and winter, and springtime and harvest,
Sun, Moon and stars in their courses above,
Join with all nature in manifold witness
To Thy great faithfulness, mercy and love.

Pardon for sin and a peace that endureth,
Thine own dear presence to cheer and to guide;
Strength for today and bright hope for tomorrow
Blessings all mine with ten thousand beside!

That's another of the great hymns that ALL Christians recognized and would sing in church for many decades. And, again, I'm referring to a time when the vast majority of the congregants actually sang together.

But, those times are now over. Now, there is a "worship team" that does all the singing for you. The music part of the service has become a spectator experience. They put the words up on a screen, but there are a few reasons why the congregation no longer participates. First, the lyrics of the songs are less than moving.

This past Sunday, I sat and listened as the worship team performed on stage. I read the lyrics on the screen and here they are:

He is worthy
He is worthy
He is worthy
He is worthy to be praised.

The worship team sang those four lines over and over for seven minutes. I thoroughly agree that He is, indeed worthy to be praised. But, just repeating a line over and over again seems redundant to me. And, how acquainted with the Scripture would one need to be to come up with these lyrics? Great is Thy Faithfulness was obviously written by someone who was very acquainted with his Bible - especially Lamentations. When I was a child, the children's songs we were taught had more depth than "He is worthy times 21."

Second, the volume of the worship team's performance is so loud, I don't know if I'd be able to hear myself sing. Indeed, the whole "song service" with drums, bass, guitars, keyboards, and multiple singers emulates the performances we see on TV quite well, and when you watch live performances of secular bands, the crowd is supposed to be entertained - not participate.

Third, just like pop music, the tunes change almost quarterly. You can't really masterfully sing a song the very first time you hear the melody. So, unless you're a member of the worship team, which means you go to rehearsals at least once a week, you won't know the song, and therefore, you'll just leave it to the team to sing for you.

I can easily imagine someone reading what I have written here and surmising that I'm just an old fashioned, grumpy curmudgeon. But, I have to believe that anyone who would just make that assumption and leave it at that has never experienced what it is like to be in a large congregation with everyone in attendance singing heartily their worship to the Lord. Oh how I miss those days. Now, I just wait for that part of the service to be over and hope the Holy Spirit speaks to me through the message of the pastor.
 
synthplayer said:
I can easily imagine someone reading what I have written here and surmising that I'm just an old fashioned, grumpy curmudgeon. But, I have to believe that anyone who would just make that assumption and leave it at that has never experienced what it is like to be in a large congregation with everyone in attendance singing heartily their worship to the Lord. Oh how I miss those days. Now, I just wait for that part of the service to be over and hope the Holy Spirit speaks to me through the message of the pastor.
Click to expand...
WOW.... IT is so "awakening" for me to have read your post. I am NOT well churched. When I was 14... I started going to Catholic mass with my mother because she decided to go back to church. She passed away in 2007. I had not been going to mass for many years before her death.

After my mother passed away... I belonged to two different non-denominational churches and by this time... what you have described was already in full swing... Worship teams singing and the words repeating in perfect harmony over and over again... however... I liked it. I am guilty of the experience that occurred during these worship times. I would close my eyes and the room would disappear. It was just me and Jesus in what was called "entering the Throne Room".

I have not gone to church since I moved back to my birth place ten years ago.... however... If I did... I would go to a little church like what you described because my feelings regarding this STYLE of worship have changed. My entire thoughts about CHURCH have changed.... and now I no longer desire to FEEL good about the music. Worship for me was so important because I was so devoid of JOY for so many years. It was the only time I felt RIGHT.

Your post is absolutely TRUE. I have never witnessed the type of congregation you are speaking of... but it is indeed the type that I would choose to attend today.

Thank you for sharing from your heart. This has deeply moved me.
 
Hello synthplayer;

I enjoyed reading your thread, RIP: Church Music and thank you for sharing. I can relate and would like to respond.

May I ask, what is PK? Promise Keepers? Pastor's kid? I also grew up in the Church and have heard all kinds of Christianese terms but truly never heard of PK.

I grew up a rock musician since I was 11 and in 1974 when I turned 17 God used me to serve with the praise team during our Sunday services. The songs back then were traditional hymns and we also played the early stages of contemporary Christian music like Godspell (selections like Day By Day,) Maranatha, Integrity, Vineyard, etc...

I have experienced singing and playing in a large and small congregation. There is a blessing in both.

By the 1990s I served as a praise band leader and I was introduced to more traditional hymns such as the ones you mentioned. We also evolved into more current contemporary praise music and I began to notice many songs were not Scriptural. Because of this, my pastor would review the praise set before each Sunday. I balked at first but later understood where he was coming from. In 2004 I entered seminary and was ordained as a pastor in the Southern Baptist Church. I served in 4 Churches and I also reviewed the praise set before each Sunday.

As I have gotten older I've become more critical toward contemporary praise music in the Church. The new generation of Christian musicians use no more than 3 or 4 chords in any given worship song. Most male singers are 2nd tenor and this vocal range limits singing other worship songs. I hate to use this example; Journey's Steve Perry and Led Zeppelin's Robert Plant have/had a wide vocal range and this allowed them to expand their singing range. Point is, this is important as many anointed hymns require a 1st tenor or countertenor vocal range. We could transform to a lower key but many times it takes away from the original intended key to be sung.

Many of the traditional choir and praise musicians actually studied music and gained knowledge and wisdom from the Bible, thus many worship songs are backed with Scripture.

Like I said, I struggle with being overly critical toward contemporary praise and worship music, but the truth is, many young Christian musicians are not at fault and they deserve to grow and develop in their music ministry. For that I still pray to the Lord regarding my disposition.

You wrote, "I can easily imagine someone reading what I have written here and surmising that I'm just an old fashioned, grumpy curmudgeon. But, I have to believe that anyone who would just make that assumption and leave it at that has never experienced what it is like to be in a large congregation with everyone in attendance singing heartily their worship to the Lord. Oh how I miss those days. Now, I just wait for that part of the service to be over and hope the Holy Spirit speaks to me through the message of the pastor."

I agree with you, synthplayer. Many of these hymns and contemporary songs are timeless. I also have been a part of the praise and worship in a large congregation. One year we did Handel's Messiah and at the end of the Hallelujah Chorus the place was Spirit filled and amazing.

God bless you, brother, and thank you for sharing.
 
Thank you for your replies. Yes - PK stands for Pastor's Kid.

My folks now attend a church up in Idaho. The church was averaging about 10 to 20 people per Sunday morning service. Then, they found out about my mother's incredible talent and they have her playing the piano. She chooses the songs, so they're singing HYMNS! Well, it didn't take long for word to get around that there's a church that still enjoys the glorious hymns, and now their attendance has grown to approx. 70 - 80 people. When I go to visit, I eagerly anticipate going to a Holiness church and singing aloud with the congregation songs of real depth.
 
a church that trades modern Contempary music over hymns. make a huge mistake them old songs was inspired out of something that took place. it is well amazing grace the list grows. nothing wrong with implementing the n c m. to replace it %100 is wrong. yes i know churches that have .the old hymns are landmarks
 
synthplayer said:
I grew up in the church - I'm a PK. My mother played the piano, and my father led the congregational singing. Often, my father would encourage the congregants to think deeply about the lyrics of the songs we were singing. That encouragement made me really appreciate the Holy Spirit inspired verses of those great songs - many of which had verses taken straight from the Bible. Our hymnal even indicated from where in the Bible the lyrics were drawn. At the time, I didn't even realize how wonderful it was to be singing the hymns with a whole congregation of people singing, too! Those hymns were "the music of God's church." And, they had been for many decades - even centuries.

A friend loaned me a DVD about George Wallace, and the title role was played by Gary Sinese. Toward the end of the movie, Wallace had come to realize he had compromised his principles - one by one - until he was sick of himself. He was seated in the back seat of his car and the driver stopped for a red light. Wallace rolled down his window and he could hear the music from a Sunday night church service. As he listened to the congregation sing, "Beneath The Cross Of Jesus," his eyes filled with tears. He instructed the driver to pull over and he entered the church. They sang:

Beneath the cross of Jesus I fain would take my stand,
The shadow of a mighty rock Within a weary land;
A home within the wilderness; A rest upon the way,
From the burning of the noon-time heat
And the burden of the day.

Wallace was convicted and renewed his commitment to God right then and there.

But, try to imagine the scene: He rolled down his window and overheard a Sunday night song service and the congregation was singing (together - all of them) a hymn that was written in mid 19th century that, at that time, was known to ALL protestant Christians of all denominations.

One of my very favorite hymns is entitled, "Great Is Thy Faithfulness."

Great is Thy faithfulness, Oh God my Father;
There is no shadow of turning with Thee.
Thou changest not; Thy compassions, they fail not;
As Thou hast been Thou forever wilt be.

Summer and winter, and springtime and harvest,
Sun, Moon and stars in their courses above,
Join with all nature in manifold witness
To Thy great faithfulness, mercy and love.

Pardon for sin and a peace that endureth,
Thine own dear presence to cheer and to guide;
Strength for today and bright hope for tomorrow
Blessings all mine with ten thousand beside!

That's another of the great hymns that ALL Christians recognized and would sing in church for many decades. And, again, I'm referring to a time when the vast majority of the congregants actually sang together.

But, those times are now over. Now, there is a "worship team" that does all the singing for you. The music part of the service has become a spectator experience. They put the words up on a screen, but there are a few reasons why the congregation no longer participates. First, the lyrics of the songs are less than moving.

This past Sunday, I sat and listened as the worship team performed on stage. I read the lyrics on the screen and here they are:

He is worthy
He is worthy
He is worthy
He is worthy to be praised.

The worship team sang those four lines over and over for seven minutes. I thoroughly agree that He is, indeed worthy to be praised. But, just repeating a line over and over again seems redundant to me. And, how acquainted with the Scripture would one need to be to come up with these lyrics? Great is Thy Faithfulness was obviously written by someone who was very acquainted with his Bible - especially Lamentations. When I was a child, the children's songs we were taught had more depth than "He is worthy times 21."

Second, the volume of the worship team's performance is so loud, I don't know if I'd be able to hear myself sing. Indeed, the whole "song service" with drums, bass, guitars, keyboards, and multiple singers emulates the performances we see on TV quite well, and when you watch live performances of secular bands, the crowd is supposed to be entertained - not participate.

Third, just like pop music, the tunes change almost quarterly. You can't really masterfully sing a song the very first time you hear the melody. So, unless you're a member of the worship team, which means you go to rehearsals at least once a week, you won't know the song, and therefore, you'll just leave it to the team to sing for you.

I can easily imagine someone reading what I have written here and surmising that I'm just an old fashioned, grumpy curmudgeon. But, I have to believe that anyone who would just make that assumption and leave it at that has never experienced what it is like to be in a large congregation with everyone in attendance singing heartily their worship to the Lord. Oh how I miss those days. Now, I just wait for that part of the service to be over and hope the Holy Spirit speaks to me through the message of the pastor.
Click to expand...
I agree 100%.

You do not know me but some here do and they will testify to you that I have been on the "Throw out Contempory" music from the Chruch for a long time.

The modern "praise & worship" method is harming the church and its people. It is entirely possible to allow the power of music to become the main attraction. We should not ever go to church because the like the music program. We should go to church because of the preaching of the Word of God!!!!

Music is like a plate on which we serve a meal. The focus should be on the food and not on the plate.

According to Ephesians 2:1-2 there is a “spirit of disobedience” in every unsaved person. The power Satan gives to a Madonna, Justin Bieber and other musicians is real. God’s people must guard themselves from the power of music that is promoted by Satan.

Then, the Bible commands the church at Ephesus to sing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs.

Ephesians 5:18-20......
“And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit; Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord; Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ…” .

If the local church is to be a reflection of her head Jesus Christ, then she must obey this clear command. To do otherwise is to disobey our Lord and to open the door to let worldly, carnal music of the world into the church through the power of music.
 
synthplayer said:
I grew up in the church - I'm a PK. My mother played the piano, and my father led the congregational singing. Often, my father would encourage the congregants to think deeply about the lyrics of the songs we were singing. That encouragement made me really appreciate the Holy Spirit inspired verses of those great songs - many of which had verses taken straight from the Bible. Our hymnal even indicated from where in the Bible the lyrics were drawn. At the time, I didn't even realize how wonderful it was to be singing the hymns with a whole congregation of people singing, too! Those hymns were "the music of God's church." And, they had been for many decades - even centuries.

A friend loaned me a DVD about George Wallace, and the title role was played by Gary Sinese. Toward the end of the movie, Wallace had come to realize he had compromised his principles - one by one - until he was sick of himself. He was seated in the back seat of his car and the driver stopped for a red light. Wallace rolled down his window and he could hear the music from a Sunday night church service. As he listened to the congregation sing, "Beneath The Cross Of Jesus," his eyes filled with tears. He instructed the driver to pull over and he entered the church. They sang:

Beneath the cross of Jesus I fain would take my stand,
The shadow of a mighty rock Within a weary land;
A home within the wilderness; A rest upon the way,
From the burning of the noon-time heat
And the burden of the day.

Wallace was convicted and renewed his commitment to God right then and there.

But, try to imagine the scene: He rolled down his window and overheard a Sunday night song service and the congregation was singing (together - all of them) a hymn that was written in mid 19th century that, at that time, was known to ALL protestant Christians of all denominations.

One of my very favorite hymns is entitled, "Great Is Thy Faithfulness."

Great is Thy faithfulness, Oh God my Father;
There is no shadow of turning with Thee.
Thou changest not; Thy compassions, they fail not;
As Thou hast been Thou forever wilt be.

Summer and winter, and springtime and harvest,
Sun, Moon and stars in their courses above,
Join with all nature in manifold witness
To Thy great faithfulness, mercy and love.

Pardon for sin and a peace that endureth,
Thine own dear presence to cheer and to guide;
Strength for today and bright hope for tomorrow
Blessings all mine with ten thousand beside!

That's another of the great hymns that ALL Christians recognized and would sing in church for many decades. And, again, I'm referring to a time when the vast majority of the congregants actually sang together.

But, those times are now over. Now, there is a "worship team" that does all the singing for you. The music part of the service has become a spectator experience. They put the words up on a screen, but there are a few reasons why the congregation no longer participates. First, the lyrics of the songs are less than moving.

This past Sunday, I sat and listened as the worship team performed on stage. I read the lyrics on the screen and here they are:

He is worthy
He is worthy
He is worthy
He is worthy to be praised.

The worship team sang those four lines over and over for seven minutes. I thoroughly agree that He is, indeed worthy to be praised. But, just repeating a line over and over again seems redundant to me. And, how acquainted with the Scripture would one need to be to come up with these lyrics? Great is Thy Faithfulness was obviously written by someone who was very acquainted with his Bible - especially Lamentations. When I was a child, the children's songs we were taught had more depth than "He is worthy times 21."

Second, the volume of the worship team's performance is so loud, I don't know if I'd be able to hear myself sing. Indeed, the whole "song service" with drums, bass, guitars, keyboards, and multiple singers emulates the performances we see on TV quite well, and when you watch live performances of secular bands, the crowd is supposed to be entertained - not participate.

Third, just like pop music, the tunes change almost quarterly. You can't really masterfully sing a song the very first time you hear the melody. So, unless you're a member of the worship team, which means you go to rehearsals at least once a week, you won't know the song, and therefore, you'll just leave it to the team to sing for you.

I can easily imagine someone reading what I have written here and surmising that I'm just an old fashioned, grumpy curmudgeon. But, I have to believe that anyone who would just make that assumption and leave it at that has never experienced what it is like to be in a large congregation with everyone in attendance singing heartily their worship to the Lord. Oh how I miss those days. Now, I just wait for that part of the service to be over and hope the Holy Spirit speaks to me through the message of the pastor.
Click to expand...
We can thank the megachurch movement for this abysmal change. Congregants are no longer parishioners; they are constituents instead. The service is no longer designed to feed the flock, but to create an artificial emotional experience through the mob-rousing tactics of the worship team.
 
According to Ephesians 2:1-2 there is a “spirit of disobedience” in every unsaved person. The power Satan gives to a Madonna, Justin Bieber and other musicians is real. God’s people must guard themselves from the power of music that is promoted by Satan.
Click to expand...
Although I don't like madonna. I do like listening to Justin. But I just don't see the harm in listening to some secular music, I think it has to do with how well you can handle it without temptation running its course. I know I have used music as a crutch when I am down, and I know it's not as Good as Gods Word. But sometimes I just don't think we don't have to become so closed off to everything other people create. I like to hear their stories too.
 
BibleLover said:
We can thank the megachurch movement for this abysmal change. Congregants are no longer parishioners; they are constituents instead. The service is no longer designed to feed the flock, but to create an artificial emotional experience through the mob-rousing tactics of the worship team.
Click to expand...
Let's not forget, we no longer go to 'a Church' ⛪, we now go to 'a Campus'. 🏫
 
BibleLover said:
We can thank the megachurch movement for this abysmal change. Congregants are no longer parishioners; they are constituents instead. The service is no longer designed to feed the flock, but to create an artificial emotional experience through the mob-rousing tactics of the worship team.
Click to expand...

Via dolarossa said:
Although I don't like madonna. I do like listening to Justin. But I just don't see the harm in listening to some secular music, I think it has to do with how well you can handle it without temptation running its course. I know I have used music as a crutch when I am down, and I know it's not as Good as Gods Word. But sometimes I just don't think we don't have to become so closed off to everything other people create. I like to hear their stories too.
Click to expand...
crossnote said:
Let's not forget, we no longer go to 'a Church' ⛪, we now go to 'a Campus'. 🏫
Click to expand...

Hello BibleLover, Via and crossnote;

Speaking for myself I have to be careful not to judge but I agree with you all.

We visited a widow a couple of years ago. She and her late husband once mentored Hazel and me. We attended a mega Church where she was a member. I was disappointed to see all the seniors were sitting in the back rows of the "campus" auditorium. It seemed they were left out of the assembly as a whole. In the front were the young people bouncing to thumping music of the praise team. The sound system was unbalanced. The song leader had to be in his 30s, was wearing a baseball cap backward and when he spoke on the mic you couldn't understand what he was saying as he led.

I was not ministered by this, but had to overlook what I witnessed, remain still and focus on the Lord which got me through it. Since then our friend found a much smaller Church where she is more comfortable and can enjoy the sermon and singing from the praise set. She was once a choir member for many years.

As a musician I have expressed many prayers to the Lord regarding secular music. I praise God for these individual musicians but I'm conscious not to worship the lyrics. But I do enjoy their gifts to play their instruments along with a great vocal range.

These professional musicians I'm referring to love their art of music more than making impressions through public statements.

Still, there are many Christians who won't listen to secular music period, and we should respect them for that.

Many of the Church attendance in America has dwindled in these times, in favor of the campus type settings. But when I'm overseas I have noticed Church attendance in the traditional church buildings are still filled to capacity.

We should not limit Church gatherings solely on the music but all facets of the worship with God's message being the highlight.

God bless you all and your families.

Bob
 
bobinfaith said:
We should not limit Church gatherings solely on the music but all facets of the worship with God's message being the highlight.
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Well, that true, but often the music is the message. (if you can understand it and it is usually full of narcissism and watered down, when you can make out the words).
 
crossnote said:
Well, that true, but often the music is the message. (if you can understand it and it is usually full of narcissism and watered down, when you can make out the words)
Click to expand...

Hello crossnote;

The praise music at the beginning prepares the congregation to get into the heart of the worship but does not represent the message, but a part of the whole body.

But if the music is filled with narcissism and watered down then this represents the wrong message. In this case it's not considered praise.

Your thoughts?
 
bobinfaith said:
But if the music is filled with narcissism and watered down then this represents the wrong message. In this case it's not considered praise.
Click to expand...
not all there are groups that the music is very understandable ..i am a southern gospel music fan we attend singings in the area when we can .we have seen several of southern Gospel music groups,

i am not up to date on all Contempary artist what few i can say the music and words are very understandable are Bible based contrary to some beliefs. casting crowns has several good songs most all teh group is involved in ministry at the Church they attend this group i use there music along the way . granted there are groups that have a better band than ac/dc . not all the music on the Contempary circuit is watered down nor is it presenting the wrong message ,

i do not agree in taking the hymns out of the worship service . but on the other hand i find no issue in using a couple of the songs combined with the hymns . we cant judge a book just by its cover
 
bobinfaith said:
Hello crossnote;

The praise music at the beginning prepares the congregation to get into the heart of the worship but does not represent the message, but a part of the whole body.

But if the music is filled with narcissism and watered down then this represents the wrong message. In this case it's not considered praise.

Your thoughts?
Click to expand...
My thoughts? You'd be surprised how much the lyrics stick in the memory especially when it comes with a catchy tune...probably more than some sermons.
 
bobinfaith said:
But if the music is filled with narcissism and watered down then this represents the wrong message. In this case it's not considered praise.
Click to expand...

forgiven61 said:
not all there are groups that the music is very understandable ..i am a southern gospel music fan we attend singings in the area when we can .we have seen several of southern Gospel music groups, i am not up to date on all Contempary artist what few i can say the music and words are very understandable are Bible based contrary to some beliefs. casting crowns has several good songs most all teh group is involved in ministry at the Church they attend this group i use there music along the way . granted there are groups that have a better band than ac/dc . not all the music on the Contempary circuit is watered down nor is it presenting the wrong message , i do not agree in taking the hymns out of the worship service . but on the other hand i find no issue in using a couple of the songs combined with the hymns . we cant judge a book just by its cover
Click to expand...
crossnote said:
My thoughts? You'd be surprised how much the lyrics stick in the memory especially when it comes with a catchy tune...probably more than some sermons.
Click to expand...

Hello forgiven and crossnote;

I agree with both your points. There were many times praise and worship songs filled members with the spirit, shouting to the Lord, then took it home with them.

You're right, crossnote, very little was remembered about the sermon.

God bless you, brothers.

Bob
 
BibleLover said:
We can thank the megachurch movement for this abysmal change. Congregants are no longer parishioners; they are constituents instead. The service is no longer designed to feed the flock, but to create an artificial emotional experience through the mob-rousing tactics of the worship team.
Click to expand...
I went to one of those here in the UK. Although it was no way as big as the American type ones. But what struck me was the pastor and his wife could rouse up the crowd to a kind of frenzy like feel with word salad.. It was like when I went nightclubbing and the house music started, at first it was just easy listening but then got wild and people stated getting on the dance floor and we all lost ourselves in the music..

OK, thats what nightclubs do. But Gods Word is meant to speak to our soul in order for us to gain insight not loose it.
I have no problem with having fun and loosing ourselves in emotional contagion, , but it dosen't go very far. Perhaps thats why the proverbs speak of giving up youthful lusts.
 
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