Old or New Earth.

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I completely understand where you are coming from. You are not argumentative :) I hope I am not sounding like arguing here as well
When people bring up age of earth as a barrier to their belief, it is generally not true. They have already shut down their hearts and using this as excuse. If they are really seeking truth, age of earth wouldn't come up. These are arguments generally used by atheists to prove believers are wrong. That Christians do not even know basic things. The reason I say is, a person really seeking truth would search both sides. Such a person would understand that scientists idea of evolution or a firm age of earth is nothing but speculation.

Thank you brother. My experience is not that these young people are using the age of the earth as a barrier to faith in Christ but simply an answer to a question which uselly tends to grow their faith because it then allows for all the pieces to fit nicely together.
 
You are correct but still missing the point my dear sister. The Bible simply does not give a date for creation at all. It is not that the Old Earth proponents are questioning the Bible, quite the opposite. This is something that the Bible is silent about and the idea that the Bible is not true or anyone is trying to disprove is simply not the case at all.

No I'm not missing your point.... what I'm saying is that it is something that has to be taken by faith.

People who want a reason to not fully immerse themselves in the Word, truly following all His ways, are looking for any excuse to go with things that tickle their ears. The excuses range from the Bible being full of contradictions to the Bible does not line up with their thoughts of how we got here, to God being mean.

But clearly God has said.....
Isa 55:8 — Isa 55:9
For not My thoughts [are] your thoughts, Nor your ways My ways,--an affirmation of Jehovah, For high have the heavens been above the earth, So high have been My ways above your ways, And My thoughts above your thoughts.

Blessings my friend
 
I think one has to be honest with them and tell them that they will research the subject and let them know. Then go find out what the creation scientists write, all the while praying and asking God to help them see the truth.

If people set parameters or conditions for accepting Christ...they are not ready. It's sad really, but we have to trust that that truth of Gods Word will never return unto Him void, and that the important part is to plant the seeds. God will (if they truly begin to seek Him with all their heart) open their eyes to the truth. But they have to determin within their own hearts to have eyes to see and ears to hear what God's Word already says.

To me it's a faith issue. They desire proof in order to believe, when acceptance of Christ is truly by faith alone. Proof only causes one to wonder.

That is an excellent point and I agree completely.

However............1 Peter 3:15 says......
"but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect,".

The people I have talked with and witnessed to have not set any parameters at all. It has been someone seeking the answer to a question which the Bible does not speak to.
 
No I'm not missing your point.... what I'm saying is that it is something that has to be taken by faith.

People who want a reason to not fully immerse themselves in the Word, truly following all His ways, are looking for any excuse to go with things that tickle their ears. The excuses range from the Bible being full of contradictions to the Bible does not line up with their thoughts of how we got here, to God being mean.

But clearly God has said.....
Isa 55:8 — Isa 55:9
For not My thoughts [are] your thoughts, Nor your ways My ways,--an affirmation of Jehovah, For high have the heavens been above the earth, So high have been My ways above your ways, And My thoughts above your thoughts.

Blessings my friend

My apologies. I have no intent to disrespect your comments or thoughts. Just the opposite. I appreciate everything you say as it is always done in a Christian way with respect to everyone.

My intent was to increase the discussion and liven things up on CFS and get more people involved. Are we there yet??????

What I am saying or trying to put forward is that it is impossible for anyone to immerse themselves in the Word of God about something that is not found in the Word of God.

Simply said, the Bible does not fix the age of the earth. The Young Earth theology Historically came from the work of James Ussher, Bishop in the Church of Ireland, in the mid 1600's. He back dated the genealogical record and concluded the date of the earth as 4004 BC. It was just accepted as true without any resistance.
The problem of course is that the genealogical account is not 100% complete as we now know from many sources both Jewish and Christian.

The Young Earth was not even considered until the mid 1900's when the dinosaurs were discovered. That is when the push back began.

It to me is a logical and informed question to ask any minister or Christian.......
"if the earth and man are 6000 years old, why are we finding animal bones that are older than 6000 years old?"
 
This is something that the Bible is silent about
Maybe for a reason!!

What does it profit a man to gain all this knowledge about the earth's age?

Far to many Christians have not even figured out how to put into practice what He did say in His Word.

Look the earth is old. It's closer to its end then ever before. The real question For Me is what are we doing with what God gave us?

Blessings my friend!!
Some scientists I would make....the age of this planet is Really Old lol
 
how old was Adam when he was created?
He was 130 when he had Seth, and lived 930 years. This is the only information we have. In my study I state,
"Not knowing the age of Adam when he was created, (i.e. was he created with the age of a man being 20 years old?) For the sake of this study, these years are counted just as Scripture has it, the years Adam lived. Genesis 5:3-5 specifically states that Adam had lived 130 years when he begat Seth. This means that Adam's first year was as God had created him, a man. "​

I'll also add, he didn't have a belly button. :D
 
My apologies. I have no intent to disrespect your comments or thoughts. Just the opposite. I appreciate everything you say as it is always done in a Christian way with respect to everyone.

My intent was to increase the discussion and liven things up on CFS and get more people involved. Are we there yet??????

What I am saying or trying to put forward is that it is impossible for anyone to immerse themselves in the Word of God about something that is not found in the Word of God.

Simply said, the Bible does not fix the age of the earth. The Young Earth theology Historically came from the work of James Ussher, Bishop in the Church of Ireland, in the mid 1600's. He back dated the genealogical record and concluded the date of the earth as 4004 BC. It was just accepted as true without any resistance.
The problem of course is that the genealogical account is not 100% complete as we now know from many sources both Jewish and Christian.

The Young Earth was not even considered until the mid 1900's when the dinosaurs were discovered. That is when the push back began.

It to me is a logical and informed question to ask any minister or Christian.......
"if the earth and man are 6000 years old, why are we finding animal bones that are older than 6000 years old?"
Flawed measuring tools and understanding what we don't know. I like the example of Pres. Garfield's of the unknown. He was shot and the doctors were digging into the wound to find the bullet to "save his life." After 79 days, Garfield finally died in agony from massive infections. The assassin stated something like "I may have shot him, but his doctors killed him." What they didn't know was the idea of sterile environment. Every generation finds something that the next generation uses.

Speed of Light May Not Be Constant, Physicists Say
"A non-constant speed of light could mean that estimates of the size of the universe might be off."​

The word of God is 100% accurate, man, not so much. But the word of God also states:

Genesis 11:6 (KJV)
...and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.
So Jules Vern imagined going to the moon and within a century, we did.
 
Maybe for a reason!!

What does it profit a man to gain all this knowledge about the earth's age?

Far to many Christians have not even figured out how to put into practice what He did say in His Word.

Look the earth is old. It's closer to its end then ever before. The real question For Me is what are we doing with what God gave us?

Blessings my friend!!
Some scientists I would make....the age of this planet is Really Old lol

I would say that the human race is indeed only 6,000 years old and the advancement of civilizations (languages, inventions, medical, industry, et cetera) clearly evidence this fact. However, I believe that the earth is very old.

Some say 12 billion years and I have no problem with that. It may be for all we know even older than that because after all....how old is God!

What I do know is that the Hebrew shows in Genesis 1:2 that the earth which God created became without form, and void and dark; and darkness was upon the face of the deep and the Spirit of God moved upon the waters.

The Bible says God's Word NEVER returns void. Isaiah 55:11............
“So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.”
 
Regarding:

Genesis1:2
Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

(Which by the way is my favourite verse)

Means simply that Earth was a formless ball of water empty of everything else that God had yet to create and that it was dark because God had yet to create light which was the next thing He did.

To add to this would be adding to the Word.
 
Regarding:

Genesis1:2
Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

(Which by the way is my favourite verse)

Means simply that Earth was a formless ball of water empty of everything else that God had yet to create and that it was dark because God had yet to create light which was the next thing He did.

To add to this would be adding to the Word.

I can not agree with that brother.

In Gen. 1:2......."Without form and void" is the Hebrew word Tohu. It means a ruin, vacancy.
The word Hebrew word for "void" is Bohu. That indicates emptiness.

God did not create the earth without form and void. God created a cosmos not chaos. He created it not tohu va bohu, but the earth became tohu va bohu.

I would also add that "Darkness was upon the face of the deep" indicates the absence of God of course.

It is my opinion, Not Bible in any way but simply my own personal opinion that a great catastrophe took place after verse #1 of Genesis 1. It would seem to me that the event touched the entire universe.
 
I can not agree with that brother.

In Gen. 1:2......."Without form and void" is the Hebrew word Tohu. It means a ruin, vacancy.
The word Hebrew word for "void" is Bohu. That indicates emptiness.

God did not create the earth without form and void. God created a cosmos not chaos. He created it not tohu va bohu, but the earth became tohu va bohu.

I would also add that "Darkness was upon the face of the deep" indicates the absence of God of course.

It is my opinion, Not Bible in any way but simply my own personal opinion that a great catastrophe took place after verse #1 of Genesis 1. It would seem to me that the event touched the entire universe.

The word To'hu is defined as: CONFUSION: To bring to ruin; to make indistinct; to fail to differentiate from an often similar or related other. A barren place. Vanity as a state of waste. [Strong's #: 8414]

http://www.mechanical-translation.org/mt/translation1.html

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...ce=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

This word however can not be used to suggest that an elongated amount of time took place on the first day because even if something happened such as Satan taking pride into his heart (which is what I believe this is referring to) as it relates to vanity and mentions emptiness and we read in Ecclesiastes 1:2:

New International Version
"Meaningless! Meaningless!" says the Teacher. "Utterly meaningless! Everything is meaningless."

King James Bible
Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity.

But as I say the first day is described as being as long as the other following five days and that an evening and morning took place on each day. And the translations of Evening and morning means just that and can't be interpreted any other way. Also remeber that God is all powerful and can do literally anything. Creating everything that exists in just 6 days is no big deal to God, He could have done it in 6 seconds if he wanted to.
 
The word To'hu is defined as: CONFUSION: To bring to ruin; to make indistinct; to fail to differentiate from an often similar or related other. A barren place. Vanity as a state of waste. [Strong's #: 8414]

http://www.mechanical-translation.org/mt/translation1.html

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...ce=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

This word however can not be used to suggest that an elongated amount of time took place on the first day because even if something happened such as Satan taking pride into his heart (which is what I believe this is referring to) as it relates to vanity and mentions emptiness and we read in Ecclesiastes 1:2:

New International Version
"Meaningless! Meaningless!" says the Teacher. "Utterly meaningless! Everything is meaningless."

King James Bible
Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity.

But as I say the first day is described as being as long as the other following five days and that an evening and morning took place on each day. And the translations of Evening and morning means just that and can't be interpreted any other way. Also remeber that God is all powerful and can do literally anything. Creating everything that exists in just 6 days is no big deal to God, He could have done it in 6 seconds if he wanted to.

I agree! Creation of man is exactly how Genesis describes it in 6 literal 24 hour days.

That has never been In question, at least not from me.

2 Peter 3:8.......
‘But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.’

The correct understanding is derived from the context— Peter’s readers are told to not lose heart because God seems slow at fulfilling His promises because He is patient, and also because He is not bound by time as we are.

The text says ‘one day is like [or as] a thousand years’—the word ‘like’ (or ‘as’) shows that it is a figure of speech, called a simile, to teach that God is outside of time (because He is the Creator of time itself). In fact, the figure of speech is so effective in its intended aim precisely because the day is literal and contrasts so vividly with 1000 years—to the eternal Creator of time, a short period of time and a long period of time may as well be the same.

The fact that the passage is actually contrasting a short and long period can be shown by the fact that Peter is quoting Psalm 90:4 ; Peter’s statement ‘do not forget’ implies that his readers were expected to recall something, and this passage has this very teaching.

Now, some people have quoted 2 Peter 3:8 in order to add time to the 6 day creation account. That is not why I have used it at all. Peter is not giving some prophetic formula, saying that a prophetic day somehow equals a thousand years or that we can add time to Creation. He is communicating a general principle regarding how we see time and how God sees time. When people use this verse as a rigid prophetic “key” or a Creation "key" it opens the door for great error.
 
Maybe for a reason!!

What does it profit a man to gain all this knowledge about the earth's age?

Far to many Christians have not even figured out how to put into practice what He did say in His Word.

Look the earth is old. It's closer to its end then ever before. The real question For Me is what are we doing with what God gave us?

Blessings my friend!!
Some scientists I would make....the age of this planet is Really Old lol

You are preaching to the choir my brother.
 
I agree! Creation of man is exactly how Genesis describes it in 6 literal 24 hour days.

That has never been In question, at least not from me.

2 Peter 3:8.......
‘But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.’

The correct understanding is derived from the context— Peter’s readers are told to not lose heart because God seems slow at fulfilling His promises because He is patient, and also because He is not bound by time as we are.

The text says ‘one day is like [or as] a thousand years’—the word ‘like’ (or ‘as’) shows that it is a figure of speech, called a simile, to teach that God is outside of time (because He is the Creator of time itself). In fact, the figure of speech is so effective in its intended aim precisely because the day is literal and contrasts so vividly with 1000 years—to the eternal Creator of time, a short period of time and a long period of time may as well be the same.

The fact that the passage is actually contrasting a short and long period can be shown by the fact that Peter is quoting Psalm 90:4 ; Peter’s statement ‘do not forget’ implies that his readers were expected to recall something, and this passage has this very teaching.

Now, some people have quoted 2 Peter 3:8 in order to add time to the 6 day creation account. That is not why I have used it at all. Peter is not giving some prophetic formula, saying that a prophetic day somehow equals a thousand years or that we can add time to Creation. He is communicating a general principle regarding how we see time and how God sees time. When people use this verse as a rigid prophetic “key” or a Creation "key" it opens the door for great error.

Okay so, you believe: 'Creation of man is exactly how Genesis describes it in 6 literal 24 hour days.'

And of course in those 6 days God created everything.

And you also back this up with : 'I would say that the human race is indeed only 6,000 years old and the advancement of civilizations (languages, inventions, medical, industry, et cetera) clearly evidence this fact.'

Thus stating that you have a belief in a young Earth.

However, you also state: 'However, I believe that the earth is very old.'

How do you explain how you hold these two contradictory views to both be true at the same time?
 
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I watched a video by a christian scientist who believes in a young earth. He showed pictures of caves, where they discover all those drawings from ancient civilizatians, and it had pictures of dinasours on it. Along with other things of course. Also, in some other country there are still these dinasour looking thing that swim. I cannot remember his name. But maybe the lochness monster was the last surviving dinasour/ s of that region. btw, those swimming dinasours are small. Bigger than a dog.
Maybe because most people get buried under ground, and the dinasours lay on top, the people are not discovered? As all that sediment that raised the earth, the dinasours are higher and get found, since these are relatively new discoveries, at least in recorded history. Plus, its not like the dinasours die alonside humans, they probably werent pets. If they did the humans woudnt let them go to waste! Food, clothing, tooth necklasses. Yeah, im just being funny here.
 
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