Returning to the original question, I find it very interesting that every time Jesus taught about faith it involved movement of some sort, I personally believe that is a key to understanding about faith.
Blessings,
Gene
Blessings,
Gene
It’s All About Faith
- Thread starter netchaplain
- Start date
Of course it's true, I wrote it. Unless you're calling me a liar
There is more to God than the word of God. I've experienced it. Have you ever studied WHO decided what books were included or not in the 66 English books? Don't look at the apocrypha as gospel, I've never said that. See them more like history books that may or may not be true. I've studied modern Judaism and I now completely understand the frustrations of Jesus with the Pharisees. I could not appreciate all that Jesus said to them until I learned what they believe. One example, since the time of Jesus they celebrate the Passover on the wrong night! I asked a dear Jewish friend about it and all he could say was "It's tradition!" HA! 
You're problem with me is that you think I'm pushing these extra-biblical books as being just as accurate as what's been decided upon in the 66 books of the Scriptures. When in fact, the word of God itself clearly states that there are events that are also written in 7 extra-biblical books by name, and Peter, Jude and the author of Hebrews, refer to the book of Enoch by quote rather than by name. I can learn by watching the news on how nations treat Israel to see with my own eyes the cause and effect, and that Gen 12:3 is still valid today - despite the beliefs of the replacement theology crowd. I allow the Holy Spirit to tell me what true and what's not. It's that simple. I can read a science book about salt and blood pressure in one chapter and evolution in the next but it doesn't mean the entire book is wrong.
I've shown, via scripture, that there's more that can't be written, and yet, I am not believed and am accused of attacking for expressing views that are seemingly contradictory to the establishment. Hmmm... sound like Anyone else?
P.S. Don't put so much stock in text = emotions. I'm not attacking anyone, but trying to stir up the Spirit within to see there's more. Much MUCH more to God in our daily walk. I don't read the word of God like a novel, but as an Owner's manual. Still it doesn't me how to drive, only the Author can do that
Also, concerning the Transfiguration, let me suggest this, priests started their ministry at the age of 30, so did Jesus, in the beginning Adam was clothed in light, so was Jesus, Moses and Elijah were there examining him, the representatives of the Law and the Prophets, He passed the test as the Last Adam in accomplishing the task the first Adam had failed to do, most assuredly He could of gone to be with the Father because He had the right to redeem the world, but, ...He bought the field to have the treasure that was in it, we read that they talked to Him about His death, He didn't have to, but, ........ he came back down and set His face like flint to go to Jerusalem.
Thank you Jesus!!!
Just my 2 cents,
Blessings,
Gene
Thank you Jesus!!!
Just my 2 cents,
Blessings,
Gene
Faith is the currency of Heaven and requires movement
To act on something is to have faith in it. Just like Mike said, if he had gone into that bar, he'd of been put back into jail. Mike had faith to believe what he heard needed to be acted on AMEN!!!
Of course it's true, I wrote it. Unless you're calling me a liar
You're problem with me is that you think I'm pushing these extra-biblical books as being just as accurate as what's been decided upon in the 66 books of the Scriptures. When in fact, the word of God itself clearly states that there are events that are also written in 7 extra-biblical books by name, and Peter, Jude and the author of Hebrews, refer to the book of Enoch by quote rather than by name. I can learn by watching the news on how nations treat Israel to see with my own eyes the cause and effect, and that Gen 12:3 is still valid today - despite the beliefs of the replacement theology crowd. I allow the Holy Spirit to tell me what true and what's not. It's that simple. I can read a science book about salt and blood pressure in one chapter and evolution in the next but it doesn't mean the entire book is wrong.
I've shown, via scripture, that there's more that can't be written, and yet, I am not believed and am accused of attacking for expressing views that are seemingly contradictory to the establishment. Hmmm... sound like Anyone else?
P.S. Don't put so much stock in text = emotions. I'm not attacking anyone, but trying to stir up the Spirit within to see there's more. Much MUCH more to God in our daily walk. I don't read the word of God like a novel, but as an Owner's manual. Still it doesn't me how to drive, only the Author can do that
You said......
"You're problem with me is that you think I'm pushing these extra-biblical books as being just as accurate as what's been decided upon in the 66 books of the Scriptures.
BINGO! We have a winner.
I have nothing whatsoever against you.
When I read the books of the books of the Apocrapha that is in question, I have a problem with anyone who wants to use them as a source of learning. The problem is not you personally but the source.
I believe that we are somewhat together in that studying the Bible and Israel’s past is a regular reminder to me that my object of trust is God, not the Bible. That’s not knocking the Bible. It’s acknowledging that the Bible–even where it talks about God–is not a heavenly tablet dropped from heaven, but a relentlessly contextual collection of ancient literature that takes wisdom and patience to handle well. Does that make sense to you?
Yes, IMHO, God is bigger than the Bible–and frankly, I see Jesus in the Gospels already sounding that note when he began reshaping common views of God based on Israel’s traditions, but I digress.
MichaelH
Inactive
Faith is the currency of Heaven and requires movement
It's really hard to get a complete understanding here Abdictate. Major said he has nothing against you, I certainly do not and refuse to hold any thought about a person from one thread to the next. I think your off your rocker about these Human/Angel Hybrids but then you did add in those post that (Something to look into and study) type of attitude which is a sit on a fence position type thing.
I completely read then don't consider any personal comments simply because certain issues push peoples buttons and it's hard to convey what we want to convey in just a few post to each other without preconceptions getting in the way.
Having said all that..................... I am the biggest fan of being led by the Holy Spirit. I hear God, and check the license plate in my heart that I ignored because it was not my car caused me to spend the day in Jail. Had I just listened and obeyed.
Faith is the currency of Heaven and requires movement
Comments like that I 100% agree. If you believe God for a new computer for example, Faith would have a desk, lamp and everything else ready for the new computer to sit on. Faith Gets ready. Noah was asked to build a boat and it had yet even rained. That takes a lot of faith to work years possibly to build something and have no conception of how it would ever be used. Faith does not have to know everything, but responds to the Holy Spirit.
66 Books:
Now this is where my issues starts. Jesus said not one title, jot, whatever you call it passes away and I don't believe man has any ability to just remove what God intended to be his Word. If God intended for more than 66 they would have been there and included in all bibles. I also don't believe there is any truth but in those 66 books. In fact there is more there than what I can fathom in my lifetime I certainly don't need to add more.
So it's discussions that range outside of the 66 books that seem to be the dam between You and Major and I's position. It could be even this is a misunderstanding given the limitations of communicating through typed text on a forum.
Blessings.
Definitely I understand a lot of people lift the written paper to the level of God and that's wrong. I used to be a KJV only-ist but I've now got Hebrew and Greek tools to help me understand it better. I also speak Italian and Spanish because of my wife (being Spanish) and can understand Portuguese, so I understand how difficult it is to translate something. In Spain there are at least 6 different meanings for "que tio" and yet if you put it into Google, you'll get "what uncle" or "that guy". But it also means "what a hunk", "what a jerk", "what a guy", "you're shurde". There's so much to learn from the Hebrew and Greek. I've learned so much from the originals I never knew before. Don't get me wrong, Strong's is great, but I want the actual word usage and theWord.net gives me that. I love it. Every nuance of the word of God is amazing and accurate.
I understand a lot of people lift the written paper to the level of God and that's wrong. I used to be a KJV only-ist but I've now got Hebrew and Greek tools to help me understand it better. I also speak Italian and Spanish because of my wife (being Spanish) and can understand Portuguese, so I understand how difficult it is to translate something. In Spain there are at least 6 different meanings for "que tio" and yet if you put it into Google, you'll get "what uncle" or "that guy". But it also means "what a hunk", "what a jerk", "what a guy", "you're shurde". There's so much to learn from the Hebrew and Greek. I've learned so much from the originals I never knew before. Don't get me wrong, Strong's is great, but I want the actual word usage and theWord.net gives me that. I love it. Every nuance of the word of God is amazing and accurate.
MichaelH
Inactive
I do the same, Strongs and Thayers are just dictionaries, they give the definition of how they think the Word was actually used in the text.
What they don't give is the meaning of the actual Word. I don't think people understand that when they tout their Greek break down with Strongs.
Apostasia for example has nothing in the root that means depart from truth. The word means to depart from a previous standing, and being a Female noun it can't tell us what it departed from. In Strongs it says Apostasy. That is an English noun meaning to depart from truth but if that were to be a Greek would it would need to be a verb Parapito which also means Apostasy or to fall aside from truth.
You need to find a secular Greek source without doctrine in the way to find meaning of some words.
I'm not sure I understand your meaning of the word currency in relation to faith, care to explain?
What I see is Jesus chiding the disciples for not believing Him in faith when He told them to do something, I've already asked the question of how will we return to the New Jerusalem from the earth, for me, the reason Jesus wants us to develop our faith (the just shall live by faith), and was so important to Him to have Paul write three commentaries on Hab 2:4, is in Eternity our faith will be our means of locomotion, how far we can travel is determined by how much faith we have developed, Eph 2:8 tells us we are all given faith and I believe saving faith is the size of a grain of mustard, and that is certainly enough to take us back home to New Jerusalem and from the way Jesus figuratively used it, probably farther, maybe to the end of our galaxy, but that won't be enough to take us to the edge of the ever increasing universe, I want to be able to stand there and watch stars, planets, galaxies just pop into existence Rev 21:1, wow, what a rush!!!
Again, just my 2 cents.
Blessings,
Gene
Definitely
I agree with that also.
I believe all serious people who study the Bible use references for explanations.
As I said, it is when we use the Book of Enoch or Macabees etc. and base a Bible doctrine on those books is where I am talking about.
MichaelH
Inactive
I use references all the time, the only issue I have with this is that we do have the Holy Spirit and we can educate ourselves to the point of removing "CONCEPT" by twisting and getting to deep into language, customs, and times.
God never changes, and what he said to one, He said to all, it's all important.
I have studied way to far if I remove eternal punishment by twisting the meaning of Hebrew and Greek words. Aionios means forever and is a Greek Adjective no matter how you want to bend it up with fables of trash piles.
So I agree with the references but not to the point of touching concept.
Blessings.
Well, to me, faith is everything, and the only thing we can do. It starts our journey with the Lord and it shapes our lives through obedience via faith in action (not going into a bar, eating this or that, telling a specifically directed person, etc) and faith builds on faith. Gal 3:3. The secular rich will tell you that money builds money; the more you have the more you get. Faith is just like that, a currency in the sense of something we receive from the Lord. He's the only one that gives us faith and He's not cheap about it. Rom 12:3,6. Some might interpret these events as struggles or trials, when it's actually a faith-building exercise. We don't move on until that level of faith is reached. Then we move on to the next level. Each level has a measure of responsibility. Faith moves mountains. Faith is the size of a grain of a mustard seed
I find far too many stay as babes in Christ, happily drinking the milk of the word. Still more say they're "christians" because they were part of an assembly line of "1,2,3, pray after me" and think they're saved.
And some say they're "christians" because their parents were or they just mean they're not Jewish or Muslim or Hindu, etc. Faith is what moves heaven. Without faith, well, nothing happens. When you got it, you need very little.
I hope this helps.I understand, but let me tell you a concrete example. Gen 11 to 12:1 talk about Abraham. It leads one to believe that Abraham left Haran when his father Terah died. Acts 7:4 says "father" and seems to confirm that, but never says "Terah". I did a study on the passage of time. I firmly believed that the scriptures tell us everything we need to know to understand what date all the events that are important throughout the scriptures. It took two years to find the reason for the messed up biblical math that this one inference suggests. In fact, I read in the book of Jasher that when Isaac was weaned Terah came to Canaan to partake of the festivities. Well, that fixed my math problem, but it contradicted Acts 7:4 so I dismissed it. Still not sure what to do I waited on the Lord. That's when I decided to do a word study. I found nothing in Genesis so I moved on to Acts. BAM! I found it. Father can mean ancestor. So I checked the math and found that Noah died, "his father"! NOW the math worked out AND the scriptures. But I still wanted to see if a "distant" father would still be called "father" in the Scriptures and I found God Himself use this when speaking to Jacob:
Genesis 28:13 (KJV) And, behold, the LORD stood above it, and said, I [am] the LORD God of Abraham thy father, and the God of Isaac: the land whereon thou liest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed;
Abraham was Jacob's grandfather. Between Noah and Abraham there are 10 generations. So instead of the scriptures saying that Abraham's great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-father died, it just says "father". That's how/why I read these books. Not to confirm/deny scriptures, those are set in stone, but to issue another way of looking at an explanation. Since the Jews are fully aware of their lineage to the nth degree, and I not being Jewish, I would never have thought of it that way. The whole of scriptures is a middle-eastern thought process, which is action based - touch, see, feel, hear; whereas Greek is thinking and abstract. This is why a lot of people in the west have such a hard time with the scriptures.
Did I need the book of Jasher, no. Could I have found the answer without it, yes. Did it help me find the answer, yes, it gave me an idea, that I followed. It's not right or wrong, it is what it is
I hope this helped a bit more.
I understand, but let me tell you a concrete example. Gen 11 to 12:1 talk about Abraham. It leads one to believe that Abraham left Haran when his father Terah died. Acts 7:4 says "father" and seems to confirm that, but never says "Terah". I did a study on the passage of time. I firmly believed that the scriptures tell us everything we need to know to understand what date all the events that are important throughout the scriptures. It took two years to find the reason for the messed up biblical math that this one inference suggests. In fact, I read in the book of Jasher that when Isaac was weaned Terah came to Canaan to partake of the festivities. Well, that fixed my math problem, but it contradicted Acts 7:4 so I dismissed it. Still not sure what to do I waited on the Lord. That's when I decided to do a word study. I found nothing in Genesis so I moved on to Acts. BAM! I found it. Father can mean ancestor. So I checked the math and found that Noah died, "his father"! NOW the math worked out AND the scriptures. But I still wanted to see if a "distant" father would still be called "father" in the Scriptures and I found God Himself use this when speaking to Jacob:
Genesis 28:13 (KJV) And, behold, the LORD stood above it, and said, I [am] the LORD God of Abraham thy father, and the God of Isaac: the land whereon thou liest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed;
Abraham was Jacob's grandfather. Between Noah and Abraham there are 10 generations. So instead of the scriptures saying that Abraham's great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-father died, it just says "father". That's how/why I read these books. Not to confirm/deny scriptures, those are set in stone, but to issue another way of looking at an explanation. Since the Jews are fully aware of their lineage to the nth degree, and I not being Jewish, I would never have thought of it that way. The whole of scriptures is a middle-eastern thought process, which is action based - touch, see, feel, hear; whereas Greek is thinking and abstract. This is why a lot of people in the west have such a hard time with the scriptures.
Did I need the book of Jasher, no. Could I have found the answer without it, yes. Did it help me find the answer, yes, it gave me an idea, that I followed. It's not right or wrong, it is what it is
I hope this helped a bit more.
No sir. If I had been interested in that information, I would have gathered it from a different source. I understand what you are saying and I agree that extra Biblical material is very helpful in the learning process. I have no earthly idea the number of books, and commentaries I have read in the past 40 years. In the years I spent in college and seminary, there is no way to know.
But I would never and have never used a book from the Apocrypha as it is totally unreliable and even satanic.
THAT is the difference we are talking about.
Some people respond by saying that the Old Testament is referred to in three parts: the Law, the Prophets, and the Writings. It is these writings that are sometimes said to include the Apocrypha. But this designation is not found in the Bible. On the contrary, Jesus referenced the Old Testament and designated its three parts as the Law, the Prophets, and the Psalms, not as the Law, the Prophets, and the Writings.
Luke 24:444.........
"Now He said to them, "These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled,".
Are you aware that there are just two angels mentioned in the bible and 200 in the book of Enoch.
Enoch says that there are 34 "Arch Angels" but the Bible just records ONE.
Does it bother you that Jesus never quoted anything from Enoch?
Did you know, that in the Book of Enoch, the angels are supposed to take supplications from earth to God.
Is that a concern??
It just seems that a man of your obvious ability and desire to know the truth would be more concerned about the reliability of these books.
Now listen brother........that is not an accusation or an attack. It is just conversation between you and me.
From my experience, years ago, when I was shown the things written in the books of the Apocrypha, and how far they were away from Biblical truth, I had no desire to consult them for any Biblical truth what so ever.
I guess if you are sold on it, that is your choice and nothing I say, or Mike says is going to change that perception for you.
Yes my brother I agree totally.
IMHO the whole context of the books in the Apocrypha and the distortions and flat out lies simply removes it as a source of information or for correction.
I thought he was using it as an example of what motivates others for some kind of action or transaction.
In this context, faith would move God to exact an exchange for or faith as would currency to exact a transaction from a person.
That was what I was thinking but I didn't know for sure, just a guess.
Gene.........I have meant to ask you how have you been. I have not heard from you in awhile and now I see you have returned.
You must have been busy??? I hope so. Busy means you made the rent this month!!