Immaculate Conception

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Yes, I defended original sin but not the idea you stated that it came from Augestine of Hippo in comment #53.

Original sin doctrine is certainly in the Bible brother........

Psalm 51:5 ...............
states that we all come into the world as sinners: "Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin my mother conceived me."

Ephesians 2:2............
says that all people who are not in Christ are "sons of disobedience."

Ephesians 2:3 ...............also establishes this, saying that we are all "by nature children of wrath." If we are all "by nature children of wrath," it can only be because we are all by nature sinners--for God does not direct His wrath towards those who are not guilty. God did not create the human race sinful, but upright. But we fell into sin and became sinful due to the sin of Adam.

Proverbs 22:15 says .............
"Foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child."

Genesis 8:21 declares, ".......
the intent of man's heart is evil from his youth." Jonathon Edwards, in his classic work The Great Christian Doctrine of Original Sin Defended, remarks that on this verse: "The word translated youth, signifies the whole of the former part of the age of man, which commences from the beginning of life. The word in its derivation, has reference to the birth or beginning of existence...so that the word here translated youth, comprehends not only what we in English most commonly call the time of youth, but also childhood and infancy."

Even if these verses were only speaking of people old enough to mentally understand sin, they would still be teaching original sin. For on that view, these verses would be saying that all people, as soon as they know good from evil, find themselves sinners. But if all people, as soon as they are capable of moral decisions, find themselves sinners, this proves that they are that way by nature.
Major, do you think that unbaptized infants are cosigned to hell? You don't believe in infant baptism which removes original sin, but yet you seem to indicate that infants are born with original sin.

Original sin is different from condemnation and a sin nature. Of course we all have an inclination to sin, and we are all cursed with death as a result of original sin, but we do not carry the guilt of sins we don't commit.
 
So then by that thinking, Joseph should be the one immaculately conceived and then he lived his life without sin...right?

WOW! That will turn the whole world upside down want it????

I think I will write a book on this and become a millionair. The Protestants will love it but the Catholics will hate it, BUT it will sell a million copies!!!!

That is the only implication I can think of........except, what is good for goose is also good for the gander!!!!
Was Joseph conceived of the the Holy Ghost?
 
So you add and subtract from the perfect Word of God in the 66 canonized books of the Bible? I'm just trying to grasp how far you deter from the Word.
It isn't me that subtracted anything, you're the one that took sacred traditions and church teachings and threw them out the window. On whose authority did you do that? Is it because you deem them "man-made", as though the Bible ISN'T man-made?
 
In conception. When babies are conceived, the blood comes from the Father. That would be why Jesus was so precious, His blood was the blood of God.

Look at comments 47 and 50.

What I mean is your friend believes that Joseph was the biological father of Jesus?
 
It isn't me that subtracted anything, you're the one that took sacred traditions and church teachings and threw them out the window. On whose authority did you do that? Is it because you deem them "man-made", as though the Bible ISN'T man-made?

Please list these traditions...
 
Well, are you or are you not Bible only Christians? You think that's how Christians were at the beginning?

What difference does it make how 'Christians were in the beginning'? How does that further my walk with Christ? Also, what beginning are you referring to? At 33, when Christ started His ministry?
 
What difference does it make how 'Christians were in the beginning'? How does that further my walk with Christ? Also, what beginning are you referring to? At 33, when Christ started His ministry?
I'm referring to the Early Church.

But if you're going to change the way Christians practice, should you not at least know how it was practiced in the beginning? It's like I was told in my music lessons, I can break all the rules I want as long as I learned about what those rules WERE first.
 
Are we trying to think that the early Church knew more than we do now. I don't so, as God has been revealing his Word for a lot longer time to us then to them. We should know more than they did, or are we getting dumber?

Dan 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
 
If Eve was the first person to sin, why Adam's sin was the one which brought
Are we trying to think that the early Church knew more than we do now. I don't so, as God has been revealing his Word for a lot longer time to us then to them. We should know more than they did, or are we getting dumber?
I don't know if that is a fair way to look at it.. I don't think God has revealed anything extra after Apostolic age.. We still have the same scripture which was used by early Church.. We are seeing the prophesies being fulfilled.. It is not a fitting term to say we have more revelation..
 
Are we trying to think that the early Church knew more than we do now. I don't so, as God has been revealing his Word for a lot longer time to us then to them. We should know more than they did, or are we getting dumber?
I repeat the question I asked earlier: On whose authority did you discard church teachings and sacred traditions, which were given equal footing with the Bible?
 
We still have the same scripture which was used by early Church.. .

Depends on which early church.

One tried to make the New Testament with just the Gospel of John and some letters of Paul.
Another used all literature and it was four times the size of the modern version.

So what they knew is depended on what they had.
 
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