Immaculate Conception

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Major said:
WHY?
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Crusades, Inquisition, Burning heretics at the stake, all absent from Eastern traditions.

No Westburo Baptist, KKK, forcible conversion, Calvinism, Dante's Inferno, witch trials, or militant Zionism.

The East has been far more likely to be the victims of such acts rather than the aggressors.
 
Major said:
Whenever somebody says oral tradition, I want to say, "Could you show it to me? I know you can't show me oral tradition, but can you show it to me some way in the text, or at least, in the lifestyle of somebody who would have cared about it?"
Otherwise we have a free-floating oral tradition that has become kind of meaningless and even exaggerated..
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I think that is a very good question to ask, Major. Oral tradition doesn't mean it isn't recorded in text, but that it is recorded apart from Scripture. For instance, the letters written by Ignatius of Antioch or Polycarp date back to the 1st and 2nd centuries, are commentary on the Scriptures, but expand on oral tradition. These are the guys that Peter, John, and Paul taught directly.
 
MMurphy said:
Eventually, they wrote the Gospels down, and the four canonical gospels are used exclusively, which was the whole point. The early Church fathers did so in order to lay down an orthodox faith and especially to stamp out gnosticism.

The canons of the Seven Ecumenical Councils are all written down. Particularly the Nicene Creed. Most of them were assembled to address heresies, notably Arianism. They were all modeled after the Council of Jerusalem, and the title "Ecumenical" which means World-wide or general was applied after the Church-at-large accepted it as such.
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Excellent historical account.
 
Where do you all get such knowledge of biblical times? Can you recommend some books for me please! Probably better to PM them to me. That would be much appreciated!
 
MMurphy said:
Crusades, Inquisition, Burning heretics at the stake, all absent from Eastern traditions.

No Westburo Baptist, KKK, forcible conversion, Calvinism, Dante's Inferno, witch trials, or militant Zionism.

The East has been far more likely to be the victims of such acts rather than the aggressors.
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You mean like Japan in WW2 and China. Oh, and India and Pakistan. And then there has been the millions killed in Cambodia and Laos not to mention Indochina. I gues you are right.
 
Major said:
You mean like Japan in WW2 and China. Oh, and India and Pakistan. And then there has been the millions killed in Cambodia and Laos not to mention Indochina. I gues you are right.
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The Orthodox Church had nothing to do with any of those events.
 
I have noticed a change in this attitude/theology recently. There's seems to be less hellfire and brimstone and more grace and truth lately. Or it may be I changed churches a year and a half ago.
 
Major said:
Whenever somebody says oral tradition, I want to say, "Could you show it to me? I know you can't show me oral tradition, but can you show it to me some way in the text, or at least, in the lifestyle of somebody who would have cared about it?"
Otherwise we have a free-floating oral tradition that has become kind of meaningless and even exaggerated..
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I recently watched a documentary retracing Joseph's, Mary's, and Jesus' time in Egypt. There are many Coptic churches that are still in existence since that time and they are steeped in oral traditions. The maker of the documentary was skeptical as to the accuracy of the oral tradition but was surprised how little has changed over the last 2,000 years. I don't remember the name of it but it was very interesting. Jesus cursed a grove of trees that were used for ashersh poles in the worship of Baal. Nothing has grown there since. Don't mess with baby Jesus!
 
MMurphy said:
The Orthodox Church had nothing to do with any of those events.
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And the Protestant church in America had nothing to do with Westboro , or the KKK, forcible conversions but you still used it as an example.

Wasn't the Crusades, Inquisition, Burning heretics at the stake Catholic events?
 
Major said:
And the Protestant church in America had nothing to do with Westboro , or the KKK, forcible conversions but you still used it as an example.

Wasn't the Crusades, Inquisition, Burning heretics at the stake Catholic events? I don't remember the Protestant church leading the war cry to Jerusalem.
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I'm not condemning any particular denomination. I'm saying it is a harsh flavor of Christianity that has been fostered in the West.

Mostly I would say Calvinist theology which came through the puritains, teaches a very harsh form. At certain points the Church basically barred certain individuals from joining because they weren't part of the elect. And in any case Protestantism is a break away from western theology. The wests teachings on hell for instance is heavily influenced by medieval catholicism. And that is absent from the East.
 
My brother....the birth of Christ was a miracle! You are trying to explain with scientfic logic! A miracle is the power of God in action! Can you see the impossibility explaing His wonders? Simple...
 
Leo_ACH said:
My brother....the birth of Christ was a miracle! You are trying to explain with scientfic logic! A miracle is the power of God in action! Can you see the impossibility explaing His wonders? Simple...
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Its true. But moreover we are speaking about the theological merit of the immaculate conception. Even if we may never understand the birth of christ, we can still discuss it in the hopes of learning something or expanding our wisdom.
 
Major said:
And the Protestant church in America had nothing to do with Westboro , or the KKK, forcible conversions but you still used it as an example.

Wasn't the Crusades, Inquisition, Burning heretics at the stake Catholic events?
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Might be less confusing to just talk 'Orange' or 'Green'
 
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